Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Luckmann]

I don't think T:ToN qualifies as either "critically-acclaimed"

Actually it does. We even discussed that being critically-acclaimed doesn't help the sales in case of TToN.

Because it's shit.

 

[Iznaliu]

I don't think T:ToN qualifies as either "critically-acclaimed"

Actually it does. We even discussed that being critically-acclaimed doesn't help the sales in case of TToN.

It has a Metacritic score of 81; I wouldn't call that "critically acclaimed" unless I'm being really generous.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's Metacritic score is at 81

Wouldn't even get bonus from Bethesda. Literally unplayable.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I love the game, though. I think it surpasses Planescape in many ways.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yes, like resolution, space on disk and number of words. All the important ways!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Yes, like resolution, space on disk and number of words. All the important ways!

Don't forget load times.

 

[Luckmann]

Yes, like resolution, space on disk and number of words. All the important ways!

Don't forget load times.

Oh god, I had almost forgotten them. It's amazing that they manage to get shit to load slower on a 2016 SSD than it took to load shit straight off the CD:s in 2000.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Wait...load times?? I have it installed on an SSD and the load times are lightning fast. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT he's probably making it up MAYBE NOT BUT STILL IT DIDN'T AFFECT ME whatever

Jokes aside, the performance, though, sucks. Sorry InXile. I'm playing in 4K with no AA enabled and I don't get a fluid 60 FPS, and it's kind of sluggish even though Nvidia says it's like 45-50ish FPS. And in some Crises, it slows down even more. And there are weird bugs here and there. Non-game breaking but they will cause you to restart the app or re-load a save or whatever. So I was a bit puzzled by some of that.

 

[Roguey]

Load times in ToN are irrelevant because there are so few areas to load and the game isn't big enough to inflate the save file to PoE endgame levels.

 

[Luckmann]

Load times in ToN are irrelevant because there are so few areas to load and the game isn't big enough to inflate the save file to PoE endgame levels.

Irrelevant to the overall enjoyment of the game had it not been shit in all other regards, too? Yeah, probably, that's fair enough.

But as an observation on how shit the game is on every conceivable level? Just another notch to tally.

 

[Roguey]

But as an observation on how shit the game is on every conceivable level? Just another notch to tally.

I'm saying there's something wrong with your SSD if you actually noticed load times at all.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

And hey, while we're on the topic of technical issues, the Steam Controller implementation is very poor. Sorry again, InXile. You guys (if you're reading this) should contact me. I've made profiles for several CRPGs now using the Steam Controller that don't have native controller support and they function quite a bit better than this configuration. While I appreciate the attempt to include native support for the Steam Controller, the implementation needs work.

Interestingly, this game also exists on tablet, too, on the Geforce Now app for Shield. I don't think it has touchscreen support, although I could be wrong on that.

Nvidia tablet, Steam Controller... it's like they made this game for me.

*sees that you have to join Geforce Now for a monthly fee just to be able to buy some of the games, Tides included*

 

[Luckmann]

But as an observation on how shit the game is on every conceivable level? Just another notch to tally.

I'm saying there's something wrong with your SSD if you actually noticed load times at all.

No, all my SSD:s are working just fine, really, and load times in many games is pretty much instant. It's not their fault Tides of Numenera is shit.

 

[Roguey]

No, all my SSD:s are working just fine, really, and load times in many games is pretty much instant. It's not their fault Tides of Numenera is shit.

Even though it's only a few seconds, it sounds like your problem is actually with Unity since it's a universal problem spanning multiple developers and genres.

 

[Luckmann]

No, all my SSD:s are working just fine, really, and load times in many games is pretty much instant. It's not their fault Tides of Numenera is shit.

Even though it's only a few seconds, it sounds like your problem is actually with Unity since it's a universal problem spanning multiple developers and genres.

Well no shit it's Unity. In case you didn't know, Tides of Numenera is in Unity. The fact that this is a common issue with Unity doesn't make Tides of Numenera exempt from the criticism.

It was even worse in Pillars of Eternity.

 

[fantadomat]

I don't use SSD and don't have problem with loading,but that is very subjective thing,for some people 5seconds of loading is a long time.

 

[Anomander Rake]

At least you are lucky that you have issues with loading screens and not with the text being unreadable

 

[FeelTheRads]

At least you are lucky that you have issues with loading screens and not with the text being unreadable

I think that has to do with the quality of the writing not with Unity.

 

[Luckmann]

At least you are lucky that you have issues with loading screens and not with the text being unreadable

It's OK, there's nothing you want to read anyway.

 

[Zibniyat]

So I guess I'm the only one here liking longer load times... In general. It allows me to have a moment of respite from playing, to read the tips/advice that are usually written on them, and many of those loading screens (in games, in general) are actually rather pleasant to look at.

It also lets me to have a quick thinking about things, though admittedly I don't do that often whilst waiting for the game proper to start.

You're all just a bunch of whiners.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So I guess I'm the only one here liking longer load times... In general. It allows me to have a moment of respite from playing, to read the tips/advice that are usually written on them, and many of those loading screens (in games, in general) are actually rather pleasant to look at.

It also lets me to have a quick thinking about things, though admittedly I don't do that often whilst waiting for the game proper to start.

You're all just a bunch of whiners.

If loading times are your standard for "quick thinking", I offer you my most sincere sympathies.

 

[Zibniyat]

I said nothing about them being "standards". The point is that loading screens can be useful (if only marginally), and they usually never last for longer than a few seconds to actually be bothersome. For example, I'm playing POE right now, and loading screens don't last longer than 10s which is negligible.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

So I guess I'm the only one here liking longer load times... In general. It allows me to have a moment of respite from playing, to read the tips/advice that are usually written on them, and many of those loading screens (in games, in general) are actually rather pleasant to look at.

It also lets me to have a quick thinking about things, though admittedly I don't do that often whilst waiting for the game proper to start.

You're all just a bunch of whiners.

I think devs could just make loading screens better. Although it's sort of a "luxury item" type of development thing (i.e. make the base game better first, right?), but it could be cool.

The devs would have to make a lot more slides that look pretty than they currently do. Plus work harder on the information presented on the slides so it doesn't repeat over and over. I think that might be interesting, because it's true that often loading screens in RPGs have cool information on them, but fly by so fast they are utterly pointless. Or the devs don't try at all with them and they're just fodder to ignore, yet the game loads so many times you end up either getting annoyed at seeing the same repeating screen and text.

Look at Drakensang: River of Time for a great example of interesting load screens, at least with the text they display. A lot of advanced lore of the setting, extra bits about the areas you are exploring and more can be read there and it's actually pretty cool and interesting if you're into the world.

 

[Zibniyat]

The devs would have to make a lot more slides that look pretty than they currently do.

They should just put (all or part of) their concept art for the game as loading screens IMO. The possible caveat (for them) would be that they couldn't sell that concept art in their precious "art books" as something new, but somehow I doubt that most collectors actually care and would still gladly pay for quality print.

Put some useful advice on them, and loading times won't be that much of the problem anymore (if at all). So long as they're not longer than say 20-30s...

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I don't want to post much more about this game until I beat it (I feel I'm close), but a few quick things.

I'm sad that it almost seems to be over. I want more. In general I think it's a modern classic and a worthy successor to Planescape (don't stop reading, hear me out), if a bit flawed in some ways. Believe it or not, I don't feel there's as much surprise in Tides as there was in Planescape. Having played Planescape a few months back, it seemed I was never sure what to expect at any moment. Being in The Bloom I feel like it's more formulaic now. There's less surprises overall than Planescape. A bit too much hand-holding for my tastes.

I would tone down the overall density of areas like Sagus Cliffs and the Bloom, to open up more exploration of other areas. Miel Avest should have been expanded more. In general, I would have preferred much larger areas. The maps feel small, and even though there's plenty of interaction, there's almost too much. Expand the maps by 300% or more. Spread out the interaction more. Add more generic NPCs to make it feel more alive to make the areas not seem empty with the added space. Right now it's too dense and gives the game a sort of cramped feeling. The Bloom is deep, vast and mysterious, it should feel much bigger. Sagus Cliffs felt like a small settlement rather than a big city.

Next, the item interaction. I would like to have seen more mutually exclusive Oddity items. Perhaps tie some of the Oddities to the ending as well, or to a later place in the game, so if you decide to sell them for shins that would be a legit option to help you buy more useful gear. But if you challenged yourself to keep them until the end, maybe a little bit of something cool would happen. A endgame screen that shows you returning the Jalley to the fountain, or it jumping around you or something (goofy example, but you get the idea.) Or entering an area 20 hours later that has a pond of those starfish creatures and the one you're carrying wants to go home with them. Little things like that add more surprise, charm, interest and makes the overall game feel less formulaic.

I would also tone down the overall amount of Oddities by about 30-35%. Make the remaining ones have more interactions and odd surprises. And save some Oddity experiences for if your character is Specialized+ in Tidal Affinity or something, or some other skill. More mutual exclusion which means that several runs with the game would yield different Oddities and you wouldn't see most of the interactions in a single play (and I know there is likely some of that already, as I passed on plenty of Oddities via role-playing choices or failed Effort checks. I still ended up with a boatload of them, hoarded in my inventory, most seemingly useless.) More uniqueness with those on a gameplay level would be great, too, such as ones that confer more unique traits and traits or skills that could be hidden. Maybe the little pez dispenser guy in the Bloom could teach you the language of his people [lol] and it would have a small interaction or two later in the game in a hard-to-find spot. Surprises and most importantly SECRETS like that really take these types of RPGs to the next level.

What else. Combat. Needs to be a lot harder. Again, I'm hoarding Cyphers all game, barely using them and my characters are rocking the enemies that you do face. The Crises that are there are generally pretty great. I loved several of them. That idea certainly has a bunch of potential, too. For Cyphers, maybe tone down the sheer number of Cyphers in general and use that focus to improve Oddities, other equipment and the Crises themselves.

Merecasters. I love these. I would play an entire RPG that has the character development of Tides and more fleshed-out Merecasters as the exclusive gameplay, i.e. just "more" overall Mere gameplay, like a very in-depth RPG Choose Your Own Adventure book (which are underlooked games IMO. There's some cool ones out there right now.) So more beautiful art screens, more depth and just expand on that idea more. As they are in Tides, they are great, easily one of my favorite aspects of the game. It would be cool if they had more noticeable affect on the game, too. I know they can change memories of some characters, and perhaps I will have to play several more times to notice those differences more, but it seems like it could have had more impact on the game in general. Again, I haven't beaten it yet, but I did just see an interaction in The Bloom with several characters from previous Meres, and it was a wee bit underwhelming.

Anyway, what else. The reflections in The Labyrinth are a bit underwhelming. Almost pointless, but I can see why they added them to sort of break things up a little bit there and give you unexpected character boosts with those. Again, kind of formulaic feeling, though.

I loved what they did with The Necropolis. I like those sorts of weird curveballs that break up the gameplay to make it feel like, "Oh, something weird is happening in this area that feels totally different GAMEPLAY and EXPLORATION-wise from the rest of the game. Neat." And that sort of quote goes for every feature in games like this.

Example, Planescape, when Morte gets kidnapped. It's like, wow. Didn't see that coming! There's all sorts of just weird, non-formulaic surprises in that game. You could get mazed by The Lady of Pain for saying or doing the "wrong" things. My complaint in Planescape was also similar, though. I would have liked to have seen more secret portals, i.e. doors, from The City of Doors. Maybe you were holding some unknown-at-the-time-to-be-a-key item, you walk in some area and oh, it reacts! Opens a portal to some secret area. Stuff like that these games benefit just so much from. Sort of unscripted, rewarding of exploration type things. Unscripted is important, so that it doesn't feel like a quest guided you there, but rather your own choices just made something interest react and happen in the world. But Planescape overall seemed to have more surprises like that. Gameplay elements that stood out from the rest of the game (stats being increased to Godlike levels, which was unexpected. There was lots of those surprises.)

I dunno. I know I'm picking on a lot of things here, but I do love the game. Maybe not quite as much as Planescape yet, but it's up there. I feel like the sequel, given a bit more budget and time cooking (fat chance of that now, I guess, but eh) would be really something. I feel like areas of Tides are undercooked, sadly, but I understand. Making a game like this must have been very difficult. I do love these reactive, interactive type of RPGs even if they are very text-heavy (never would mind that if the writing is fine), and hope to see more like them in the future.

I may jump over to Arcanum next, or Fallout 2 and play more of those. Or another Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines run.

Any suggestions for what to play next?