Game News Tortured Hearts goes Kickstarter for $300k

[SubBassman]

Burning Bridges

Do you want to see screenshots from the Aurora toolset? I don't think so.

Some convo samples will be uploaded though.

There's a half done game, there's a graphical conception and a vision on how it's supposed to be done.

 

[Burning Bridges]

First, the money.
As the FAQ points out:
We could have asked for less, hoping we'd be overpledged. But what if we weren't? We couldn't promise a finished game of the best quality. We are already on a very spare budget that we know is enough to finish. Update #1 explains this a little more.

Sorry but that only shows you're already thinking in maximalistic terms. But an uncertain thing as this game you promise to create should come in small steps, otherwise it's almost certain to fail.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Burning Bridges

Do you want to see screenshots from the Aurora toolset? I don't think so.

Some convo samples will be uploaded though.

There's a half done game, there's a graphical conception and a vision on how it's supposed to be done.

Don't ask ME, think of a good way to show your progress, and let people assess the quality.

As long as you only talk about it, it might as well not be there. In fact you're making yourself look silly by talking about what amazing goods you have on sale, but which you cannot show.

In German that's called "selling a cat in a bag" - I think the expression exists in Eastern European languages too

But I'm not accusing you that you have made up all that stuff, I just think that it could be much less impressive than you make it sound ...

 

[SubBassman]

First, the money.
As the FAQ points out:
We could have asked for less, hoping we'd be overpledged. But what if we weren't? We couldn't promise a finished game of the best quality. We are already on a very spare budget that we know is enough to finish. Update #1 explains this a little more.

Sorry but that only shows you're already thinking in maximalistic terms. But an uncertain thing as this game you promise to create should come in small steps, otherwise it's almost certain to fail.

Look, I'm a game maker. A maximalist if you wish.
What would you expect from a game? A stinking, boring bugfest? Hardly.
How small of a step do you think a half done game is?

 

[SubBassman]

Burning Bridges


But I'm not accusing you that you have made up all that stuff, I just think that it could be much less impressive than you make it sound ...

I understand all your concerns, but we can't show you spectacular things, except our vision on the visuals, because in order to produce gameplay for instance
we need money. See the problem here?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Only the highest quality. But that doesn't mean I ask 300.000$ in advantage for every project I begin.

Your half done game, I just don't see it. All I see is a small video and a bit of information about a game that could be made.

I understand all your concerns, but we can't show you spectacular things, except our vision on the visuals, because in order to produce gameplay for instance
we need money. See the problem here?

I'm sure you would be able to make some kind of prototype with your engine. It doesn't have to be perfect.

 

[SubBassman]

Only the highest quality. But that doesn't mean I ask 300.000$ in advantage for every project I begin.

Your half done game, I just don't see it. All I see is a small video and a bit of information about a game that could be made.

I understand all your concerns, but we can't show you spectacular things, except our vision on the visuals, because in order to produce gameplay for instance
we need money. See the problem here?

I'm sure you would be able to make some kind of prototype with your engine.

"Our engine" is the Unity 3D engine and yes we could. If we could pay a couple of people for months.
The current "prototype" is in the Aurora toolset. Which is, naturally, unpublishable.

 

[Burning Bridges]

"Our engine" is the Unity 3D engine and yes we could. If we could pay a couple of people for months.

Why don't you do it yourself, for free?

 

[SubBassman]

Because I'm not a designer, modeler, animator, musician and programmer in one person.

 

[Burning Bridges]

In other words: you have to hire programmers for your game?

 

[God is Dog backwards]

Yeah, this looks dodgy. It appears to me that you have a 'vision' and a design - but you don't have a game. So you're looking to hire programmers to make your game. To me this isn't something I'd support - I want to see evidence of the game itself (Which, yes, means working for free for a period of time, like most indie devs) and evidence that you're on a timescale and you can get the game done within that time.

 

[mindx2]

Sorry, I'll pass on this one. The whole humor thing turns me off immediately (humor is very hard to pull off) and there seems to be little to no design plan or programmers to actually make, you know, a computer game. Money pit that I'll avoid.

 

[Burning Bridges]

No response to my question, interesting.

Bros, I would definitely let my fingers from this.

Not only does it look like the plan is to hire professional programmers for the actual work, like making a prototype.

He also blurted out that they will need to hire people who will do the models, textures, musics, voices:

Third, the project:

Since 2008, about 2.3 million characters of meaningful text has been written + hundreds of skill/ability checks, we have put 100+ quests together, hundreds of NPCs saying something interesting... the game is half done. The other half, the models, textures, musics, voices etc must be done by someone and these people won't work for free, like us.

By the way, don't worry about the English of the text, it was already proofread by Lenore.

This means, what actually has been done is nothing but ideas, text and quests, altogether 2.3 millions of characters of proof read English.

Yet he calls it a half finished game.

If this is a viable business plan now, I will go to kickstarter next month with the inofficial sequel to Jagged Alliance 2, before one of you can do it. For years my vision has been to revive the typical old school game of the past, guaranteed without DRM. I am an experienced programmer and can do a part of the work myself. I also have thousands of ideas, several notebooks full of concepts, and a library of source books. Every night before I fall asleep I imagine the game and have new ideas every time. So you see, the game is half done. For the other half, my plan is to use the money you give me to hire several professionals and act as the CEO. 350.000$ should be enough, I guess, for at least an alpha version. How does that sound?

 

[God is Dog backwards]

Millions of characters
????
Game released

 

[commie]

Why does SubBassman sound like Dogma7?

 

[Burning Bridges]

What do you think, which kind of Pizza would he like?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

How small of a step do you think a half done game is?

It's by no means a small step and I sincerely hope you're able to see the project through, but ask Jason Compton of the Broken Hourglass fame (who also happens to have come out of the modding scene) or Vault Dweller (who I guess was at pretty much the stage you describe somewhere around 2006, if not sooner) about how that other half (not to speak of the proverbial last 10%) of development tends to take a bit longer than the first.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Burning Bridges
Don't be so fuckin edgy man. Calling the game half-finished might be an understatement, but it's nothing to be mad about.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Pretty much anything where I see modders get grandiose means it's time to prepare for some serious lol but this makes the Hard Core Tactical Plagiarism guy look down to earth by comparison.

Very good point: modders cannot into making games. What they probably do is spend four years making nothing but 3d models and then cry for help from programmers to finish the "rest" of the game.

Over the years I got so pissed off by modders (EDIT: only the total conversion types) that I completely stopped checking progress threads at all. I can hardly remember if I downloaded a total conversion mod in years.

 

[Drowed]

If he is the creator of the homonyms mods for NWN, his promises about the size of the plot of the game are probably true. At least when we talk about the size and scope of history alone, as the quality, I dunno.

 

[Tolknaz]

Very good point: modders cannot into making games. What they probably do is spend four years making nothing but 3d models and then cry for help from programmers to finish the "rest" of the game.

That is not completely true though. Most of them cannot, that's true. However, a lot, if not most of the future game industry professionals first start out as modders. It's a very good way to get some real world experience and improve your résumé in the eyes of potential employers.

 

[oldmanpaco]

So this is where all the Codex hate for the last couple of weeks went. Was wondering when it would erupt. It almost happened with Fargo’s ‘social’ plan but that was contained. Seems to have reached critical mass here though.

Anyway donated $10 out of spite.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Very good point: modders cannot into making games. What they probably do is spend four years making nothing but 3d models and then cry for help from programmers to finish the "rest" of the game.

That is not completely true though. Most of them cannot, that's true. However, a lot, if not most of the future game industry professionals first start out as modders. It's a very good way to get some real world experience and improve your résumé in the eyes of potential employers.

.. it goes without saying that there are exceptions. Besides, when I say "modders" I mean people who spend years on a single project, which is so over-the-top ambitious that they most likely never finish, and in particular, spend all those years working only on those part which are most fun ("the rest will come later"). I guess many people here are making smaller mods from time to time. And if that's your idea, I am a modder too, I made a lot of stuff over the last 10 years. But that's something completely different. When I mod, I make something small and it either works or sucks, and I only put it in the internet when it is useable. But not promise the pie in the sky for years when I'm in fact only pursuing hobbies like 3d modelling.

 

[commie]

Which reminds me..you blew me off without even a reply after asking what things to put in a possible remake of Race into Space once upon a time BB....I guess you couldn't resist burning that bridge...

 

[Alex]

SubBassman
I urge you to consider Marquess Cornwallis' suggestions. As this thread shows, people won't be impressed just because you have all the text and gameplay ready. Unfortunately, I don't think you guys are known enough to pull that amount on name alone, and people expect to see the gameplay, not just one aspect. I understand that this situation is a bit critical, but maybe, if the kickstarter does fail, you can try again with a smaller budget and try to sell a smaller part of the game? Your kickstarter page mentioned there are three choke points. Maybe you could break the game off on the first one, allowing for a first episode? I understand you want to avoid compromising the original vision, but maybe with a little creative thinking you can get the game you want to make in a way that helps you get a following. If you manage to release one game, even if it is much smaller than the poriginal vision, I am sure the next one will be easier.

To everyone else, even if you don't think the project can succeed, I again urge you to pledge if this is your type of game. At least, it will help the devs realize what kind of money they might raise in a future project, even if this one fails.