Game News Tortured Hearts goes Kickstarter for $300k

[skyst]

Third, the project:
Since 2008, about 2.3 million characters of meaningful text has been written + hundreds of skill/ability checks, we have put 100+ quests together, hundreds of NPCs saying something interesting... the game is half done. The other half, the models, textures, musics, voices etc must be done by someone and these people won't work for free, like us.

I have been DMing pencil and paper RPGs for 15 some years and save absolutely all of my work. I also have millions of characters of text, hundreds of quests and NPCs and skill checks out the ass.

Where is my $300,000?

 

[Fens]

Why are they calling this a "A Video Games project in Phoenix, AZ" when the developers are Hungarians in Budapest?

Am I eligible to start a Kickstarter project?
To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:
Be a permanent US resident and at least 18 years of age with a Social Security Number (or EIN), a US bank account, US address, US state-issued ID (driver’s license), and major US credit or debit card.

probably just have to have a crew member based in the U.S. start the kickstarter as an american project

 

[Burning Bridges]

ain't your half finished game which heavily relies on nwscript totally useless within unity? you can't rewrite the native scripting language to support your finished scripts because unity is a closed system therefore you have to do all the work again. same with the dialogues. you have to rescript and rework everything within unity again to mimic what you've already done and perhaps only to find out that something doesn't work in that engine.

Well, that's yet another issue of course. If you create a complete game in NWN, then convert the finished assets into Unity, it means you have to rewrite large parts of the NWN engine, and you will more or less end up with NWN for Unity3D. It's possible, but I don't know, it doesn't seem a good idea to put the wagon before the horse. I can imagine that many parts (mechanics, AI, camera etc) could benefit from the recoding, but it's difficult to make big improvements with the many assets you have already finished, and which limit your freedom by design. For most programmers it would be much more attractive to make some rapid prototype with its own functions and then start putting in content. Of course it's no problem if you have made most of the text and data beforehand, but once you commited to some form of proprietary scripting language, you already mostly constituted your engine.

 

[SubBassman]

But they don't have a half finished project yet.

ain't your half finished game which heavily relies on nwscript totally useless within unity? you can't rewrite the native scripting language to support your finished scripts because unity is a closed system therefore you have to do all the work again. same with the dialogues. you have to rescript and rework everything within unity again to mimic what you've already done and perhaps only to find out that something doesn't work in that engine.

to call design docs a half finished game is a bit off imo.

Let's clear things up, again.

This is not a design doc. This is 51 MB of game data. The data of NWN can be converted to xml which is a generic transition between game engines.

My system works like an interface between engines. Actually I use my own commands to tell the program what to do. They are linked to NWN's script system via a handful of actual NWN script commands. It is part of the project to implement these script commands in Unity, but it's not a big deal really. I tried to use as few NWN script commands as possible.

Everything is spawned to the last NPC so that I can keep track of them easily on the palette.

The areas are stripped of non-important objects, other than triggers and spawner objects and waypoints. The actual content will be placed in Unity.

Since we are using xml's, what we need to do is to implement the parser in Unity, which is fairly easy. No need to do anything again, just wire it to the game logic and GUI. Therefore, this isn't the main issue, guys. It's really the sheer amount of graphics, which take a lot of manhours.

 

[Semper]

thx for clarification

 

[SubBassman]

More to come soon...

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

SubBassman, just wanna say that your Tortured Hearts mods was really really top notch, hope this goes well. Myself, I have no cash at the moment *being poor excuse*

 

[thesheeep]

I already spent my "pledging budget" for this month. But, hey, next month is close

Anyway, I like the idea behind the game, but as a newcomer into the indie business, as someone who is not known, it is pure insanity to "demand" 300,000. I know it might be justified and probably correctly calculated, but still. People don't know you. This has nothing to do with your qualification, which is obviously there, but it is completely different with Brian Fargo and/or Tim Schafer. Those guys have fans that are fans since ~20 years. Including many, many people in the press. That is why they are successful, not because of a good idea.
In short: I am really convinced you should have aimed lower, probably with another game if this one really needs that much.

Also, the pledges... Cheat items? "Limited" dungeons, what good is that if you cannot share and discuss the experience with other people? "Limited" pets? A photo in the credits? What the ....? To me, all of this seems strangely elitist and actively discouraging. People most certainly don't spend 500$ on a game to appear like a "king" to other people or themselves, they spend that much because they believe in the idea. But if you get a sh*tload of cheat and elitist items when you give that much money, you'll certainly feel like an asshole. I know I would, even or especially when that was not the reason why I wanted to spend that money.

All of that said, I still wish you luck, as all doubts aside: the game sounds interesting.

 

[SubBassman]

SubBassman, just wanna say that your Tortured Hearts mods was really really top notch, hope this goes well. Myself, I have no cash at the moment *being poor excuse*

Thank you mate, I really appreciate it. Currently, I'm working on a video that shows all the areas as a slideshow. On our homepage, you can check some pictures of areas and journals. The convo pictures are problematic because the site squashes them for some reason. We'll try to figure out a solution.

 

[villain of the story]

If I know anything about people, it's that they are suckers for combat. If you started with implementing the TB combat and showcasing it, I believe it would generate far more publicity far quickly. And then you could pull a "besides glorious TB combat, we have all these and these".

Or really get started with parsing nwn scripts into Unity and building the basic framework just so that you can show you have the basics in place: an interface, interaction and combat, all done with placeholders, primitive geometry blocks and blank textures, just to inspire trust and then you can boldly ask for 300K because that's how much you need for professional assets.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Good ideas, but "unknowns" need to realize that they must show more gameplay to get substantial pledges. I'd be inclined to guess that most Codexers have had hundreds of such ideas, but were wise enough to see the difference between concept and goal. The failure to understand this also perpetuates a vapourware vibe. Sorry guys, no dice.

 

[SubBassman]

If I know anything about people, it's that they are suckers for combat. If you started with implementing the TB combat and showcasing it, I believe it would generate far more publicity far quickly. And then you could pull a "besides glorious TB combat, we have all these and these".

Or really get started with parsing nwn scripts into Unity and building the basic framework just so that you can show you have the basics in place: an interface, interaction and combat, all done with placeholders, primitive geometry blocks and blank textures, just to inspire trust and then you can boldly ask for 300K because that's how much you need for professional assets.

I hear you, and I'm even listening, but as I mentioned this is what we can do for free. Everything else costs money.

 

[SubBassman]

Good ideas, but "unknowns" need to realize that they must show more gameplay to get substantial pledges. I'd be inclined to guess that most Codexers have had hundreds of such ideas, but were wise enough to see the difference between concept and goal. The failure to understand this also perpetuates a vapourware vibe. Sorry guys, no dice.

We are not worried about this, we'll continue to forge ahead to get this done somehow.

 

[SubBassman]

Yeah, get working on that and in ten years when it's working do your kickstarter. And forget about a humorous RPG. Just look at the bitterness of Jay Barnson. Bet he wishes he tried a kickstarter and saw how miserable it failed to save him wasting time making a lulzy RPG when he could have just made a straight up serious one where you kill the mad wizard people liked ten times more.

If you use the word lulzy, it's definitely not for you.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Good ideas, but "unknowns" need to realize that they must show more gameplay to get substantial pledges. I'd be inclined to guess that most Codexers have had hundreds of such ideas, but were wise enough to see the difference between concept and goal. The failure to understand this also perpetuates a vapourware vibe. Sorry guys, no dice.

We are not worried about this, we'll continue to forge ahead to get this done somehow.

That's cool. I'll definitely buy your product when it is finished.

 

[felipepepe]

The more SubBassman talks about, the more I start to like the project. I even donated my $10 today, but still, it was more of a symbolic gesture, as I doubt that the project will take off this time.

It's a game I would like to play, even the graphical style pleases me, but I fear you guys are in the same path as the tatical shooter guy. Not in the sense of horribad ideas and PR, but in the lack of a proper view & knowlegde of how to promote this project; as someone posted "people for whom publishers where created for"...not in the "evil overlords" meaning, but in the original sense of a company that will help people with ideas make them happen.

That said, I hope you can prepare a better presentation and try a new, better planned kickstarter when the time is right, so I can donate $10 again, this time actually believen that the goal will be reached.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Tortured Hearts: Or, How I Saved the Universe. Again. (TM)
is an epicly epic, light-hearted RPG, dedicated to the proposition that most RPGs take themselves far too seriously. Since almost every imaginable plot scenario and character has already been used and overused to the point that cliches are unavoidable, TH instead revels in pointing out that the life of adventurers is one endless heroic cliche, some sort of existential trap created by the gods of RPG worlds. In other word, it has everything every other RPG game ever had, and introspective humor too.

This kind of thinking is a cancer that is killing RPGs.

And a long and detailed plot with 500,000 words of that shit sounds horrific.

This is even worse than hardcore tactical plagiarism guy.

 

[SubBassman]

The more SubBassman talks about, the more I start to like the project. I even donated my $10 today, but still, it was more of a symbolic gesture, as I doubt that the project will take off this time.

Thank you. This is what Kickstarter is all about.

 

[SubBassman]

.

This kind of thinking is a cancer that is killing RPGs.

Did you know that Fallout 1-2, and Torment were kinda humorous games at times?

It's easy anyway, play something else.

 

[Tigranes]

I've donated to Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, Double Fine, but really if I'm just reading the kickstarter page, there is nothing that makes me excited about the project and nothing that assures me the project will be delivered. The video is terribly uninteresting. If I'm reading the list of how all these quests are done and the plot is written, I want videos and screenshots of something playable so I can get a sense of things. (I know, from skimming this thread, that the current status of those assets makes this difficult, but the point stands for many potential donors.) E.g. with the pretty-much-dead Planeswalker Games I would donate in a heartbeat because they can show stuff, even if it looks like a BG clone at the moment.

The only things I really take out of the kickstarter page is that you guys seem dedicated and have the right mindset, but without a very professionally organized proposal and nothing specific to show or a hook. I suppose the hook might be the whole light-hearted stuff, but I think by 2012 we do have some games that do that at least partially. Personally I think stories/games entirely based on jabbing at cliches is a terrible idea and I'd prefer decently done cliches, but that's a separate question of personal appeal. (Edit: Fallout, etc. had their 'funny' moments, but that wasn't the whole point of the story/world. Unless you're a really, really funny dude, it's just not going to carry the whole experience.)

Still, I'll be watching to see if anything can persuade me to donate.

 

[SubBassman]

As for the humor...

TH is not a silly game, it's more like a satire.

 

[Livonya]

I hope you succeed in getting your funding as I would like to see more games made, however, with that said I don't think you can raise the money.

Kickstarter requires a level of initial excitement. If you don't have a high level of initial excitement then you won't raise your funding. Funding on Kickstarter is like a snowball. The more funding you have the more funding you will get... the closer you get to your goals the easier it is to get more funding... and once you reach 100% then it becomes even that much easier to gain funding.

People are skeptical and sheep.

This skeptical tendencies decline as the sheep tendencies increase.

And people don't like to lose. So they are less likely to fund something if they think it will fail.

With that said, you have to start your Kickstarter campaign before you start your Kickstarter campaign.

The Banner Saga and Wasteland for instance had people talking about their game before they started their Kickstarter campaign. FTL had an actual demo that people could play. This demo had already been featured at gaming conventions prior to Kickstarter.

You didn't prepare for your Kickstarter in advance (as far as I can tell), and you asked for too much money. If you has asked for $25,000 to $50,000 then you might have gotten $300,000 but asking for $300,000 will probably prevent you from reaching even $25,000.

FTL asked for $10,000 which was realistic and once they had that funding a whole lot of people said "this is happening so why not take part," and thus they will get a huge amount of money. These are just two young kids and their video is pretty funny because it is clear that they are just kids in their bedroom. But they only asked for $10,000 and they had a demo... the snowball effect worked for them.

Your Kickstarter campaign is probably dead in the water already due to the fact that you only have raised $1,000 so far which means that most people assume you will fail as you are light years away from raising $300,000 which means that people are going to be less likely to donate even if they like your project. The snowball effect is working against you here.

I write all of this because I think it is important to understand that just because your Kickstarter campaign will fail it isn't because your ideas are bad, but rather because you have made poor choices in your presentation. Maybe next time you can approach it differently.

Things I recommend for next time:

1) Your web site needs more images, and you need to have forums that are active... active forum users will be the people that pledge first to get your snowball rolling in the right direction
2) Ask for a lot less money (but hope for more)
3) Make sure you get people talking about your Kickstarter thing BEFORE you start it

Take a look at Dead State over at Iron Tower. They have a semi active forum and have already built up interest in their game and they are using that forum to figure out how to do a Kickstarter campaign.

Anyway, I hope you prove me wrong and raise your money.

 

[SubBassman]

Livonya


Thank you for your insights and observations.

Whatever happens, this is going to let people know that this game exists and it's already good for us.

 

[SubBassman]

As for the humor...

TH is not a silly game, it's more like a satire.

Exactly like frayed knights, then.

Maybe not

 

[Noddy]

You seem to vary between 'Guys you have no idea how many man hours are needed to create the graphics and code required, we need moneyz' and 'Ok we have no graphics or coding done, but the game is half finished, honest'.

These seem like mutually exclusive statments to me.