Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[Danikas]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2005149728

 

[AgentFransis]

Vassals are broken - never vassalize. In my vampires campaign I noticed a bunch of factions had 300+ relations with me for screwing up the order factions and were willing to become my vassals. So I vassalized all the pirates, clan Skryre, the greenskins and the spawned norscans in the badlands. Within 2-3 turns all of them revolt and are now at war with me.

 

[AgentFransis]

Well Kemmler did get a papercut there.

 

[rolandz_Baton_PROD]

how much time did it take? i think time is one of many factors that determine what kind of victory you'll receive.

 

[Beastro]

Within 2-3 turns all of them revolt and are now at war with me.

CA never changes.

Well Kemmler did get a papercut there.

Again. Was having this shit with ETW ten years ago.

 

[AgentFransis]

how much time did it take? i think time is one of many factors that determine what kind of victory you'll receive.

Why should time be a factor? It was quick anyway. It's one of Kemmler's quest battles and you ambush those orcs.

 

[Berekän]

The game makes some weird calculations to give the battle result. The one I know is that ammunition spent also lowers your overall score, I believe as a holdover from ETW where the ammunition didn't fully replenish between battles.

 

[thesheeep]

The game makes some weird calculations to give the battle result. The one I know is that ammunition spent also lowers your overall score, I believe as a holdover from ETW where the ammunition didn't fully replenish between battles.

The weirdest thing of it all is that afaik how exactly it is calculated is still kept a secret.
It is obvious to everyone and their mums that the calculation just doesn't work, period.

Putting it out there would at least allow modders to fix it. I have no doubt it could be fixed, or at least significantly improved. But I have lost all faith the actual devs can do it.

 

[Matalarata]

Did you use the summoning skill as Kemmler and how many troops have you resurrected during the battle? 'Cause I'm pretty sure temporary units are taken in consideration and considered "lost". Additionally, each model you have effectively lost in battle and recovered via magic is considered lost. Obviously a moronic choice, not endorsing it in any way, simply trying to provide info.

Also, why are you using troops? Just go for the free skellies thing and field as many armies as you can, 99% of your kiling power comes from wind of death anyway. Hoard knoweledgeable wizard (their +5 wind bonus stacks) and by mid game you should have uber-vampires able to cast WoD 6+ times per combat and clear the field with just the free bone rabble as added ambient (useful to aim WoD).

 

[Norfleet]

Again. Was having this shit with ETW ten years ago.

Honestly, it started with one of the RTW expansions, where, in the old days, gloriously and utterly destroying your foes against superior numbers with utterly lopsided kill rates used to result in "Heroic Victory", but after that expansion, soloing a 3000-man army with just a single general was only "Clear Victory". Like, SERIOUSLY, HOW MUCH HARDER DO I NEED TO WHOOP SOMEONE'S ASS? I had ONE GUY singlehandedly kill over a thousand enemies to defeat an army that outnumbered him 3000:1. If this had happened in the REAL world, this man would be a legend. But after that expansion, this was merely a "Clear" victory? Victories where you curbstomp your enemy, losing less than 1% of your entire army while his is utterly wiped to the last man? "Close Victory". Yeaaaaah.

 

[Danikas]

"Close Victory". Yeaaaaah.

 

[Norfleet]

Yeah, I don't get it. The criteria seem kinda whack. A flawless victory is somehow "pyrrhic", winning against absolutely ludicrous odds is merely "clear". At least that was pretty heroic, but seriously, what is the game even thinking?

 

[AgentFransis]

Did you use the summoning skill as Kemmler and how many troops have you resurrected during the battle? 'Cause I'm pretty sure temporary units are taken in consideration and considered "lost". Additionally, each model you have effectively lost in battle and recovered via magic is considered lost. Obviously a moronic choice, not endorsing it in any way, simply trying to provide info.

Also, why are you using troops? Just go for the free skellies thing and field as many armies as you can, 99% of your kiling power comes from wind of death anyway. Hoard knoweledgeable wizard (their +5 wind bonus stacks) and by mid game you should have uber-vampires able to cast WoD 6+ times per combat and clear the field with just the free bone rabble as added ambient (useful to aim WoD).

No summons. Some did die and were Neheked back but just a few.

I'm using troops because it's fun and I can. This is probably my most expensive army, others have more skellies. WoD is great but so are your troops.

 

[AgentFransis]

Once more the game is not impressed. Feels like the result bug happens when you have zero or close to zero casualties. Should be easy to debug is someone there could be arsed. Or maybe it's the just the game being sarcastic "oh yeah it was 'real' close boss, they nearly had us".

Anyway plagueclaw catapults are disgusting.

 

[razvedchiki]

your epenis gets longer when you trash the dumb AI?

 

[tabacila]

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/the-proving-grounds-beta/
So CA made a branch where they plan to go wild with balancing to see what sticks.
Their quoted goals:
GOALS

• Experiment with different difficulty settings, including game pace modifications
• Adjust game pace to align with shorter end-turn times
• BUT retain a game pace that allows for frequent activity like recruitment, construction or combat every turn
• Increase impact in recruitment and construction decisions
• Reduce the economy scaling into the later stages of the game
• Add meaningful and stronger money sinks
• Keep campaign AI competitive
• Create an environment to possibly remove supply lines
• Reduce the strength of swift expansion
• Streamline factional differences in economy and more clearly define faction uniqueness
• Return public order to be generally more meaningful
• Return growth to be generally more meaningful
• Push late-game units later into the game naturally for both AI and player
• Aim for more varied playthroughs and different late-game challenges emerging naturally
• Avoid hard restrictions

 

[AgentFransis]

your epenis gets longer when you trash the dumb AI?

The real one too.

 

[Average Manatee]

>Removed supply lines (additional upkeep for all armies the more armies the player has)
That's incredibly good for higher difficulties. Before the upkeep increase meant that running a bunch of decent armies was just too expensive compared to a few doomstacks of the best units.
>No public order penalties on higher difficulties
Also great

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

>Removed supply lines (additional upkeep for all armies the more armies the player has)
That's incredibly good for higher difficulties. Before the upkeep increase meant that running a bunch of decent armies was just too expensive compared to a few doomstacks of the best units.
>No public order penalties on higher difficulties
Also great

On the other hand this :

>Removed building conversion on occupation (automatic conversion of buildings of a different race)

Isn't so great.
I hated having to build everything from scratch upon occupying a foreign city. It made things tedious.

 

[Average Manatee]

On the other hand this :

>Removed building conversion on occupation (automatic conversion of buildings of a different race)

Isn't so great.
I hated having to build everything from scratch upon occupying a foreign city. It made things tedious.

It seems a reasonable penalty to slow down the inevitable snowball once you get a doomstack. Settlements required almost nothing to get working just as good or even higher developed than your own. It will also incentivize staying within your race.

 

[AgentFransis]

>Removed supply lines (additional upkeep for all armies the more armies the player has)
That's incredibly good for higher difficulties. Before the upkeep increase meant that running a bunch of decent armies was just too expensive compared to a few doomstacks of the best units.
>No public order penalties on higher difficulties
Also great

Does the AI have supply line penalties? And if so does it care about them? I ask because this could just lead to army inflation on both sides and more tedium. If this leads to you having to fight the same copy pasted dwarf stack x3 times it would not be an improvement.

Also I don't quite agree from my perspective. I play VH campaign, normal battle and on this difficulty I usually end up running a bunch of decent armies and feel like I usually have just enough armies to make do without it being too easy or too hard. I know the viable builds are more restricted on VH combat but personally I don't enjoy hidden stat bonuses. Nor do I feel like it's strictly necessary like in the classic total wars since the AI is much more capable on the campaign level now.

 

[AgentFransis]

On the other hand this :

>Removed building conversion on occupation (automatic conversion of buildings of a different race)

Isn't so great.
I hated having to build everything from scratch upon occupying a foreign city. It made things tedious.

It seems a reasonable penalty to slow down the inevitable snowball once you get a doomstack. Settlements required almost nothing to get working just as good or even higher developed than your own. It will also incentivize staying within your race.

By far the biggest factor in snowballing is the magical auto reinforcements mechanic. Especially the races with access to casualty recovery bonuses can recover a stack from 50% damage to full in one turn, whereas in the more realistic total wars such loses would probably mean stopping and waiting for reinforcements. What they could try to do is go in a more simulationy Europa Barbarorum like direction where towns need to be gradually assimilated and until then you can only reinforce at a much slower rate (and can't recruit).

 

[Danikas]

Does the AI have supply line penalties? And if so does it care about them?

Lol AI has infinite money it doesen't play with your rules or limitations.

 

[Parabalus]

Does the AI have supply line penalties? And if so does it care about them?

Lol AI has infinite money it doesen't play with your rules or limitations.

It has more money but it still suffers from supply lines.

On the other hand this :

>Removed building conversion on occupation (automatic conversion of buildings of a different race)

Isn't so great.
I hated having to build everything from scratch upon occupying a foreign city. It made things tedious.

It seems a reasonable penalty to slow down the inevitable snowball once you get a doomstack. Settlements required almost nothing to get working just as good or even higher developed than your own. It will also incentivize staying within your race.

By far the biggest factor in snowballing is the magical auto reinforcements mechanic. Especially the races with access to casualty recovery bonuses can recover a stack from 50% damage to full in one turn, whereas in the more realistic total wars such loses would probably mean stopping and waiting for reinforcements. What they could try to do is go in a more simulationy Europa Barbarorum like direction where towns need to be gradually assimilated and until then you can only reinforce at a much slower rate (and can't recruit).

If they change this it would just further gimp melee combat, which is already worse on >normal battle difficulty due to the AI's MA and LD buffs.

If you run ranged-only stacks you don't need replenishment, this would have to be accompanied with an ammunition supply system.

 

[Average Manatee]

Does the AI have supply line penalties? And if so does it care about them?

Lol AI has infinite money it doesen't play with your rules or limitations.

It has more money but it still suffers from supply lines.

No, AI never had supply lines. My understand is that it's (don't have exact numbers)

- greatly reduced recruitment cost (~-80%?)
- greatly reduced building cost (~-80%?)
- minorly reduced upkeep cost (~-10%?)
- same income.

For legendary with very hard being slightly reduced bonuses. So basically the AI can build armies and settlements like it has infinite money but can only upkeep as many armies as a normal-difficulty player could. Note that the AI bonuses have shifted radically a few times since original WH1.

Incidentally no building conversion will also be a very big nerf to the AI since it can't resurrect a doomstack you just killed one settlement away, it'll have to march all the way from the AI's well-developed homeland.

If they change this it would just further gimp melee combat, which is already worse on >normal battle difficulty due to the AI's MA and LD buffs.

If you run ranged-only stacks you don't need replenishment, this would have to be accompanied with an ammunition supply system.

Yeah, the battle difficulty bonuses should really be changed. Think I'll post on their forums asking for it. Changing difficulty to a flat HP buff for the AI would be much more balanced across magic/ranged/melee combat.