Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[razvedchiki]

On top of this, CA keep repeating the same stupid mistake of creating wildly overpowered DLC/FLC characters, presumably to make them more exciting,

they want to sell them dlcs brah.

 

[Fedora Master]

Grom done
sacking is dumb

Brah, you can fuel your entire economy with sacking alone, like a horde faction.

 

[Average Manatee]

Grom done
sacking is dumb

Brah, you can fuel your entire economy with sacking alone, like a horde faction.

Sacking only gives a small amount more than looting and occupying and sacking means you decrease the settlement level by 2 rather than 1, which means you need to pay for another upgrade (bad), wait for growth (also bad), and wait longer for the very important forts that allow you to move out of the area and not have it instantly reconquered (worst). I was running a constant negative income for the last 40 turns or so fueling everything with loot and occupy You can see that negative in the screenshot.

 

[Fedora Master]

Grom done
sacking is dumb

Brah, you can fuel your entire economy with sacking alone, like a horde faction.

Sacking only gives a small amount more than looting and occupying and sacking means you decrease the settlement level by 2 rather than 1, which means you need to pay for another upgrade (bad), wait for growth (also bad), and wait longer for the very important forts that allow you to move out of the area and not have it instantly reconquered (worst). I was running a constant negative income for the last 40 turns or so fueling everything with loot and occupy You can see that negative in the screenshot.

My experience in ME is completely different. I didn't even colonize the jungle areas, I just razed everything and only kept my starting province. Grom has almost 50% income from sacking, I can get 100k+ from sacking Tomb King capitals.

 

[A horse of course]

Grom done

Spoiler

All things considered it was kind of a hard start just because of the area. All of the high elves got called into war against me by like turn 20 just due to how shit the relations are. Then the wild elves declared war (never attacked). Then, presumably because half the map was against me, everyone else saw me as an appealing target and I was regularly attacked by opportunistic random nations across the map. And basically no one would ever be willing to peace me out, ever. Dunno if that was due to relations (greenskins are hated by everyone and Grom is super hated by elves) or just the fact that the AI thought the odds were stacked against me. The fact that I never had to deal with the empire was a blessing, the Vamps attacked me around turn 100 but it was not too bad.

Never got the ingredients for fighting Centaurs (guess beastmen didn't spawn with the right stuff), dwarves (forgot to sack, sacking is dumb), vampire coast, or finishing an elf crusade (must have been a bug, did two). I mostly used the +8 public order and -8 enemy leadership bonuses for the end game though.

Looking at how the objectives work for Grom, I can actually get Long Victory in only a few more turns sieging the Galleon's Graveyard so I suppose I'll do that.

I do kind of feel like Grom makes Skarsnik obsolete. Both are goblin-focused lords in close to the same part of the map. Grom just happens to be better in literally every way. Only difference is that Skarsnik's objectives are for him to go east and Grom's are to go west.


The Greenskin tide is due to the Waaagh! ability that the AI is completely unequipped to handle, 40+ AI units running around will demolish any AI. The fact that AIs like Grimgore still confederate constantly AND confederate on defeating enemy leaders only exacerbated the incredible snowball in my game. Not sure how the vamps dominated though or what change might have helped them out. For reference Grimgor ended with 54 settlements and the vampire counts a combined 48. Would be funny to search around Grimgore's territory for the ork himself and just attack that specific stack to confederate the whole thing in one go though.

re: snowballing, the game already has the supply lines penalty to punish large factions from scaling their armies to territory at a linear rate. Problem is the AI doesn't take this penalty.

There are a lot of things going on with snowballing:

First, AI simply doing well and steamrolling everyone, gaining unstoppable momentum unless they get attacked by a similarly-powerful empire/the player. This is already bad enough by itself, and as noted only Attila really tried to tackle the problem.

Second, unless it was patched out, "secondary" AI factions (i.e. those who are not the leading factions of their races) are coded to try and escape destruction by confederating with the leading faction of their race - similarly, the leading faction is coded to confederate with another faction if it itself is in danger of destruction, so as to avoid the main factions being wiped out too early in the game. So the "head" faction is usually going to confederate with multiple factions unless taken out very early and under exceptional circumstances.

Thirdly, the "head" faction of each race is coded to force-confederate with lesser factions so as to keep pace with the power level of the player - therefore if the player is rocketing up the strength rankings, all the leading factions will automatically confederate with their juniors in order to keep pace (again, unless this has been patched out).

Fourthly, there was a point at which "lead" factions were given massive autoresolve bonuses against junior factions, meaning they would consistently win battles against overwhelming odds. CA justified this on the grounds that they'd heard a lot of complaints about major factions being wiped out or sidelined too early, but it was patched out around the time of Vampire Coast.

Fifth, some factions just have an unfair advantage - for example, the Empire in particular benefitted massively from being able to instantly spawn half stacks of regiments of renown and Electoral special troops.

Sixth - supply lines were actually just patched out, as I understand it. Regardless, the AI has a bunch of economic safeguards to prevent them from going bankrupt.

 

[Fedora Master]

The definitive face off.

Spoiler

I dislike how the blood effects generally create a visual mess out of screenshots though. Need to find that Less Blood mod again.

 

[razvedchiki]

Sixth - supply lines were actually just patched out, as I understand it. Regardless, the AI has a bunch of economic safeguards to prevent them from going bankrupt.

supply lines are still in, the retardo "make the game even easier" battle grounds beta didnt materialise into an actual patch.

 

[A horse of course]

The definitive face off.

Spoiler

I dislike how the blood effects generally create a visual mess out of screenshots though. Need to find that Less Blood mod again.

Yeah I always turn off gore in screenshots - Warhammer 2 is already a game with...less than stellar raw IQ, especially with the stupid filters and FXAA on top of it. Blood is also fairly heavy on performance. The less blood mod is a huge improvement.

 

[Fedora Master]

The power creep is fucking real. That was a battle against 4 TK stacks. Granted, mostly shit skellies but still. Almost 1000 kills on the idol. Almost 500 kills per Nasty Skulker.

 

[Agame]

Yea I like my gobbos but there was no need to turn them into space marines.

 

[Fedora Master]

Skarsnik can't get his goblins as beefy, so they either have to nerf Grom or buff Skarsnik eventually.

 

[Danikas]

I dislike how the blood effects generally create a visual mess out of screenshots though. Need to find that Less Blood mod again.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1573602662

 

[Fedora Master]

I dislike how the blood effects generally create a visual mess out of screenshots though. Need to find that Less Blood mod again.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1573602662

The original doesn't work anymore?

 

[Danikas]

The original doesn't work anymore?

I use this one works like a charm.

 

[Drakron]

First, AI simply doing well and steamrolling everyone, gaining unstoppable momentum unless they get attacked by a similarly-powerful empire/the player. This is already bad enough by itself, and as noted only Attila really tried to tackle the problem.

Well yes but this is often due to weird balance issues as the Dwarf snowballing were mostly caused by Greenskins being unable to keep then in check, the Empire pre-rework was pretty much destroyed by the Vampires every time.

Second, unless it was patched out, "secondary" AI factions (i.e. those who are not the leading factions of their races) are coded to try and escape destruction by confederating with the leading faction of their race - similarly, the leading faction is coded to confederate with another faction if it itself is in danger of destruction, so as to avoid the main factions being wiped out too early in the game. So the "head" faction is usually going to confederate with multiple factions unless taken out very early and under exceptional circumstances.

They have to be aware of their head factions as having meet then, also this is not always the case as the Huntsman expedition seems to be set to be unable to confederate as well the Empire own mechanics were if the Empire dies the Elector Countries dont confederate with each other, same with Tomb Kings that also cannot confederate and the Vampire Pirates.

In the end to me it looks the confederations usually happen with factions that have said mechanics as part of the Faction mechanics (Britonnia and Empire) or ones that due to close proximity will confederate due to the reasons you stated, some Dwarf minor factions are too isolated to have meet the main factions and will die, some apparently wont like Dark Elves since often they are at war with the main faction and have poor relationships within the faction and then are ones that are like Tomb Kings say, This is forbidden!

Thirdly, the "head" faction of each race is coded to force-confederate with lesser factions so as to keep pace with the power level of the player - therefore if the player is rocketing up the strength rankings, all the leading factions will automatically confederate with their juniors in order to keep pace (again, unless this has been patched out).

As far I can tell, that happens due to the faction mechanics mostly, some do it because of relationship and proximity as its common the Wood Elves will confederate despite having no external pressure to do so, the snowball effect happens with Tyrion but thats because thats how High Elves expand initially even if Allarielle sometimes beats Tyrion to that, Empire and Bretonnia due to their faction mechanics and Dwarfs due to proximity and pressure at being at war.

Fourthly, there was a point at which "lead" factions were given massive autoresolve bonuses against junior factions, meaning they would consistently win battles against overwhelming odds. CA justified this on the grounds that they'd heard a lot of complaints about major factions being wiped out or sidelined too early, but it was patched out around the time of Vampire Coast.

Yes, they had a bonus that was removed as they decided that the AI improvements was enough to do that, the AI was fucking stupid when it come to build priority as for example, they would not build a gold mine.

Fifth, some factions just have an unfair advantage - for example, the Empire in particular benefitted massively from being able to instantly spawn half stacks of regiments of renown and Electoral special troops.

Thats post-rework, before it the Empire ceased to exist or was close to that before Chaos shown up most of the time as it was overrun by the Vampire Counts. There was no such thing as Electoral Troops pre-rework ... a lot of the issues are the AI cheats because as much the Beardtide is a issue ... its not something that happens if you are playing Dwarfs and the Empire seems overpowered but that is because of AI buffs for the Endtimes scenario that date back to Warhammer 1.

Sixth - supply lines were actually just patched out, as I understand it. Regardless, the AI has a bunch of economic safeguards to prevent them from going bankrupt.

Nope, that was in a test build and those changes never made it to the patch as I suspect a lot of then werent well received because taking a settlement and having to build every building on it from the start just to "slow down the campaign" is fucking stupid, also Tomb Kings dont have supply lines and they never addressed that on that test build.

And yes, the economic safeguards is the reason why Dwarfs are/were so strong due to being able to spam stacks because Dwarf army balance is "strong army-expensive army" so they are strong units that you, the player cannot just spam stacks ... that the AI does because of all the economical cheats it gets.

 

[Fedora Master]

There seems to be something very wrong with the economy now. I started an Alith Anar ME game for shits and giggles and I have 20k+ in the bank on turn 18 just from capturing, NOT SACKING, low level settlements.

 

[Average Manatee]

View attachment 13305

The power creep is fucking real. That was a battle against 4 TK stacks. Granted, mostly shit skellies but still. Almost 1000 kills on the idol. Almost 500 kills per Nasty Skulker.

Keep in mind this is the absolute best case for them. They worst melee unit in the game vs. a bunch of regenerating units. Tomb Kings are generally speaking quite weak right now in campaign, if you ran up against Tyrion or Grimgore with max XP top-tier units gobbos will get chewed up just the same.

My experience in ME is completely different. I didn't even colonize the jungle areas, I just razed everything and only kept my starting province. Grom has almost 50% income from sacking, I can get 100k+ from sacking Tomb King capitals.

Level 5 high elf settlements gave about 40k for loot and occupy while sack gave about 60k, but when you look at the cost of rebuilding everything and losing buildings loot and occupy was just better. And by far the most important part was preserving a high level so a fort can be built sooner rather than later.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

CreamAPI still works, nice.

 

[Fedora Master]

CreamAPI still works, nice.

Why wouldn't it work?
The people over at... that place... said you need the loose DLC files though, which I find odd.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The Grom DLC is brilliant.

Having so much fun with this game.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

seems like CA are incapable of having a remotely balanced ME campaign

when you create a system you do it (hopefully) against some very precise numbers. once you give in to the power creep, and you're forced to move everything else up to keep the pace, the system breaks because the rules were supposed to sustain lower numbers. it's like trying to have an ant as big as a dog, it just doesn't work.

funny trivia: "grom" is an ice cream shops chain in italy.

 

[A horse of course]

Having so much fun with this game.

Liar.

 

[Agame]

I think I am burnt out on this game, I cant get excited about this new DLC. I wish we had the third part instead of that shitty 3Ks game. I could be playing with my beautiful bulging ogre boys, smashing chaos demons and big hat dorfs.

 

[A horse of course]

I think I am burnt out on this game, I cant get excited about this new DLC. I wish we had the third part instead of that shitty 3Ks game. I could be playing with my beautiful bulging ogre boys, smashing chaos demons and big hat dorfs.

After WH2 I know CA will never, ever, meet my expectations, let alone exceed them. They didn't fix a single thing wrong with WH1 and just keep adding new armies with some minor gimmicks. And it works for them, financially - flashy new units and animations will always sell over boring shit like deep and meaningful customization, campaign balance and gameplay mechanics. I fully expect WH3 to feature absolutely nothing new besides the four missing races.

 

[Parabalus]

I think I am burnt out on this game, I cant get excited about this new DLC. I wish we had the third part instead of that shitty 3Ks game. I could be playing with my beautiful bulging ogre boys, smashing chaos demons and big hat dorfs.

After WH2 I know CA will never, ever, meet my expectations, let alone exceed them. They didn't fix a single thing wrong with WH1 and just keep adding new armies with some minor gimmicks. And it works for them, financially - flashy new units and animations will always sell over boring shit like deep and meaningful customization, campaign balance and gameplay mechanics. I fully expect WH3 to feature absolutely nothing new besides the four missing races.

What do you want them to fix/add?

I played WH2 before I tried WH1 and the latter is unplayable compared to the former, it was really a huge step up.

 

[A horse of course]

I think I am burnt out on this game, I cant get excited about this new DLC. I wish we had the third part instead of that shitty 3Ks game. I could be playing with my beautiful bulging ogre boys, smashing chaos demons and big hat dorfs.

After WH2 I know CA will never, ever, meet my expectations, let alone exceed them. They didn't fix a single thing wrong with WH1 and just keep adding new armies with some minor gimmicks. And it works for them, financially - flashy new units and animations will always sell over boring shit like deep and meaningful customization, campaign balance and gameplay mechanics. I fully expect WH3 to feature absolutely nothing new besides the four missing races.

What do you want them to fix/add?

I played WH2 before I tried WH1 and the latter is unplayable compared to the former, it was really a huge step up.

Campaign depth, not stupid gimmick shite
Fix dogshit sieges, either completely overhaul the current sieges or at least add significant settlement variety
Magic system (like tabletop), not glass cannon one-click BOOM haha like the current mechanics
Unit customization (like tabletop)
Character customization beyond Call of Duty loadouts (like historical TW) - every faction should, at minimum, have something similar to political offices and intrafaction relations
Logical diplomacy, not allies with 100+ relations randomly declaring war on each other because their code told them to (never ever)
Naval combat (small family company)
Banners (small family company)

I was going to make this a longform post, but I got excited and need a nap