Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Trigger the codex with a statement.

vitellus

the irascible
Patron
Joined
Jan 10, 2023
Messages
425
Location
fuck you
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Neither KotOR game is worth bothering with.

time and place, i guess...nah, bioware has almost always been dogshit. i've always thought the mechanics of their games were boring rts inspired pisswater. the stories they present are lame and gay and aimed at kids. couldn't get through the first hour of ME1 without internally dying at every boring cutscene. like, who actually watches these things? even now i have a hard time since we are starting down that whole uncanny valley with everything in every cutscene i can't skip being filled with robots i'm supposed to connect with.

:decline:
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,836
BioWare's KotOR is meh, but Obsidian's sequel is worth it as a storyfag tbh. (Same as with MotB even if you don't like the broader NwN series).
 

__scribbles__

Educated
Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
375
Location
The Void
That said, Peragus has Taris beat on boredome. The first six hours of K2 are demonstrably worse than K1's.
Peragus is fine, it should only take an hour tops. The real problem is Telos. Peragus has a small amount of intrigue and a neat atmosphere on a first playthrough, while Telos has neither and shares the gameplay flaws with Peragus if not outright making them worse. I agree that Peragus is bad, but Telos, and Citadel Station in particular, are worse in pretty much every way.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
24,357

Hag

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
2,494
Location
Breizh
Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Saying D&D system is great is like saying WH40k is an elegant strategy game or that MtG is a good card game.
It means that either it was your first one and you are blinded by nostalgia, or you have never played anything else.
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
All three are supbar systems technically, although for different reasons. D&D is outdated and many of its components make no sense anymore (the STR/CON split, alignment charts, the emphasis on tactics, not to talk about its awful amusement park take on Tolkien fantasy). Its clunkiness can be excused by its wargaming roots and the fact it was the first, but still. WH40k is simply terrible as a ruleset with its buckets of dice everytime someone farts, and I have less experience with CCGs but the fews I tried apart from Magic did struck me as interesting and well designed and not "draw tap discard draw tap discard buy boosters".

All three are the most successful in their genre a little because of historical reasons and a LOT because of aggressive sales practices considering the player as an idiot to be shaved of its money with little regard about the quality of their products, as well as targeting younger audience since the first experience is usually the most significant.

It does not mean you are forbidden to have fun with them but there are (or were, I'm not really up to date) so many elegant rulesets made by competent and passionate people that it is unnerving to see players flocking to the same names all the freaking time.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,836
Classless systems are for communists.
Are YOU a communist?
BcGqMp8.jpg
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,902
Faux genders. Lord knows they change the definition as "THE AGENDA" dictates.

gen·der
/ˈjendər/

noun
  1. 1.
    the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones, or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
    "the singer has opted to keep the names and genders of her twins private"
    • 2.
      GRAMMAR
      (in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very looselyassociated with distinctions of sex.
 

Hag

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
2,494
Location
Breizh
Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
there are (or were, I'm not really up to date) so many elegant rulesets made by competent and passionate people
Such as?
Here you go, based on my own limited experience :

Concerning RPGs :
For tabletop the best was a Star Wars one but I forgot which edition. Played two campains and it was perfect, good progression, never went in our way but always helpful and to the point when needed. I've also mastered a GURPS campaign and the system was neat, very "plug and play", maybe a bit too complex for its own good but nothing serious. There was also In Nomine Satanis which was underwhelming stat-wise but with a cleverly crafted settings allowing lot of leeway for both the GM and the players while staying in-bounds at all times. Nice stuff such as recovering energy doing a chosen RP action a certain way.
Next to it D&D was a chore, stupidly heavy on rules and expensive rulebooks. You had to bookmark every other page because you always hit some edge case, dozen of pages were needed to cover fighting and leveling was so brutal it made us metagame to get the best of our characters instead of going with the flow. In hindsight it has become obvious how well all this was marketed to ease beginners into thinking that RPGs = rules = rulebooks = $$$
Tabletop wise the only thing more unbearable was a homebrew made a weeb from our RP group that had all the tropes you can imagine. Complete nonsense, however the fact it still was played and had a months long campaign I quickly dropped from (stealing half the player base and the only girl to start my own group) so the lesson is people will play the worst hair-pulling ass-designed horror is they have nothing else to do (or are promised pizzas).

For CRPGs I know D&D grid-based fights and finite state fighting is very well adapted to computer development, and it was very good for say Nethack. But I was quite concerned to see the same system in Planescape Torment were it does not make any kind of sense ("You have received 2000000xp for talking to that NPC because of plot advancement !"). However for video games it is less aggravating since the computer does all the shitty jobs for you and you only have to focus on watching the numbers grow. Still I think the TES games system is better for example, if only because it has always been tailored for computing and depends on lots of ugly formulas you will never see, only providing you a nice interface.


Concerning minis :
Void (BWM) was a SF game with similar scope and approach to 40k. However the rules were tight (and shorter, and free), fights were resolved quickly making the game quite hardcore, factions were wildly dissimilar and there were rules for funky shit such as AI controlled robots. Almost perfect, the minis were nice and not too expensive, the company went under then came back but I was out of the scene at that time so that's it. Next, contender for the greatest game package ever designed was Confrontation, probably the only that could fight Warhammer head-on on the quality of models and art. Plus it had a all-in-one design : you only bought the miniatures, they were each coming with a beautiful stat card and for the most important ones the rulebook that was a small paper book of twenty or so pages fitting neatly into the blister box. Everybody was sure to have at least a couple extra copies of the rules he could share around, and they were so short you had them memorized quickly anyway. The game was short and to the point, small scale, each creature acts in turn, fights were resolved 1v1 with the possibility to choose each round whether to offend or defend against possibly incoming attacks, so same two encounters between the same opponents could go differently according to their orders. You could play a whole battle with three or four dice shared between the two players.
The special award of the stupidly clever trick was Ronin Duel, a giant robot fighting game where robots had a magnet on each body part. Damages taken were small metal markers you would stick to the magnets. Three markers on an arm ? It was destroyed. You could even wrap the markers in yellow painted cotton to give the impression your robot was catching fire. Game was otherwise ok but shit was so fun.
40K and WFB relied mostly on throwing more dice than your opponents and checking tables. Playing orks ? Hope you brought at least 15d6. Wanna play ? For the price of the rulebook and the army books alone you could have bought a real starting army in any other game cited above.


And finaly, CCGs :
Was not very big on CCGs since I quickly realized how shitty the booster system was (a teen and its money are easily parted away). Magic was ok I guess in the end as a game. Not much to say. Many possibilities, a bit boring on the side. I remember playing a couple games with a Fellowship of the Ring deck from a friend a thinking "wow, this is so much more fun". Probably because once again the focus was on strategy and not on making people buy more cards.
There was a small game with a name I can't remember (was along the line of "zoondu", serves them well for choosing a stupid name) where the cards were placed on the table on a virtual grid, each had attack and defense values linked to its position on the board and relatively the the attacking/defending card. Simple, fast, elegant.
On the topic of card games, I also used to be a seasoned Belote Coinchée player, and played quite a few 52-cards deck based games, so I know how much more fun you can have for years with a 2 bucks card game compared to the deck-building money-burning CCGs.


I hope this answer your question.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom