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Hag

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Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
there are (or were, I'm not really up to date) so many elegant rulesets made by competent and passionate people
Such as?
Here you go, based on my own limited experience :

Concerning RPGs :
For tabletop the best was a Star Wars one but I forgot which edition. Played two campains and it was perfect, good progression, never went in our way but always helpful and to the point when needed. I've also mastered a GURPS campaign and the system was neat, very "plug and play", maybe a bit too complex for its own good but nothing serious. There was also In Nomine Satanis which was underwhelming stat-wise but with a cleverly crafted settings allowing lot of leeway for both the GM and the players while staying in-bounds at all times. Nice stuff such as recovering energy doing a chosen RP action a certain way.
Next to it D&D was a chore, stupidly heavy on rules and expensive rulebooks. You had to bookmark every other page because you always hit some edge case, dozen of pages were needed to cover fighting and leveling was so brutal it made us metagame to get the best of our characters instead of going with the flow. In hindsight it has become obvious how well all this was marketed to ease beginners into thinking that RPGs = rules = rulebooks = $$$
Tabletop wise the only thing more unbearable was a homebrew made a weeb from our RP group that had all the tropes you can imagine. Complete nonsense, however the fact it still was played and had a months long campaign I quickly dropped from (stealing half the player base and the only girl to start my own group) so the lesson is people will play the worst hair-pulling ass-designed horror is they have nothing else to do (or are promised pizzas).

For CRPGs I know D&D grid-based fights and finite state fighting is very well adapted to computer development, and it was very good for say Nethack. But I was quite concerned to see the same system in Planescape Torment were it does not make any kind of sense ("You have received 2000000xp for talking to that NPC because of plot advancement !"). However for video games it is less aggravating since the computer does all the shitty jobs for you and you only have to focus on watching the numbers grow. Still I think the TES games system is better for example, if only because it has always been tailored for computing and depends on lots of ugly formulas you will never see, only providing you a nice interface.


Concerning minis :
Void (BWM) was a SF game with similar scope and approach to 40k. However the rules were tight (and shorter, and free), fights were resolved quickly making the game quite hardcore, factions were wildly dissimilar and there were rules for funky shit such as AI controlled robots. Almost perfect, the minis were nice and not too expensive, the company went under then came back but I was out of the scene at that time so that's it. Next, contender for the greatest game package ever designed was Confrontation, probably the only that could fight Warhammer head-on on the quality of models and art. Plus it had a all-in-one design : you only bought the miniatures, they were each coming with a beautiful stat card and for the most important ones the rulebook that was a small paper book of twenty or so pages fitting neatly into the blister box. Everybody was sure to have at least a couple extra copies of the rules he could share around, and they were so short you had them memorized quickly anyway. The game was short and to the point, small scale, each creature acts in turn, fights were resolved 1v1 with the possibility to choose each round whether to offend or defend against possibly incoming attacks, so same two encounters between the same opponents could go differently according to their orders. You could play a whole battle with three or four dice shared between the two players.
The special award of the stupidly clever trick was Ronin Duel, a giant robot fighting game where robots had a magnet on each body part. Damages taken were small metal markers you would stick to the magnets. Three markers on an arm ? It was destroyed. You could even wrap the markers in yellow painted cotton to give the impression your robot was catching fire. Game was otherwise ok but shit was so fun.
40K and WFB relied mostly on throwing more dice than your opponents and checking tables. Playing orks ? Hope you brought at least 15d6. Wanna play ? For the price of the rulebook and the army books alone you could have bought a real starting army in any other game cited above.


And finaly, CCGs :
Was not very big on CCGs since I quickly realized how shitty the booster system was (a teen and its money are easily parted away). Magic was ok I guess in the end as a game. Not much to say. Many possibilities, a bit boring on the side. I remember playing a couple games with a Fellowship of the Ring deck from a friend a thinking "wow, this is so much more fun". Probably because once again the focus was on strategy and not on making people buy more cards.
There was a small game with a name I can't remember (was along the line of "zoondu", serves them well for choosing a stupid name) where the cards were placed on the table on a virtual grid, each had attack and defense values linked to its position on the board and relatively the the attacking/defending card. Simple, fast, elegant.
On the topic of card games, I also used to be a seasoned Belote Coinchée player, and played quite a few 52-cards deck based games, so I know how much more fun you can have for years with a 2 bucks card game compared to the deck-building money-burning CCGs.


I hope this answer your question.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,356
You only need 3 books for Ad&D 1e or 2e. PHB, DMG, MM

B/X moldvay you can get by on 1 or 2. Basic & Expert setting.

BECMI (just get Rules Encyclopedia). You want immortal because you cry rivers not having the Gold Box? Get Wrath of the immortals,

You want just 1 set? Get the original 3 LBB that Gary & crew started. Fuck the later editions and ALL THE SPLAT BOOKS.
FUCK ADVENTURE MODULES!

Just make shit up if you have an imagination? My first grid combat board as a grade schooler (1st/2nd grade) was a checkers board and I used all sorts of shit for figurines and tactical combat. 1 became 2 became 4 and eventually drawing grids on cut out huge cardboard boxes from large appliances i found in cardboard recycling bins.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Redfall's failure and acknowledgement as a shit game is just the latest in a trend that Arkane started with Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (aka the Adventures of Sir Kicksalot) and more recently proved again with Deathloop. It's nice to see journos start to acknowledge how shit their games are.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,798
Saying D&D system is great is like saying WH40k is an elegant strategy game or that MtG is a good card game.
It means that either it was your first one and you are blinded by nostalgia, or you have never played anything else.
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
All three are supbar systems technically, although for different reasons. D&D is outdated... alignment charts
I don't even like D&D, but imagine thinking that the real problem with Dungeons and Dragons is a belief in objective good and evil
 

Hagashager

Educated
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
634
The debate on alignment charts is a touchy subject to me. I don't think alignments are that great. Most PnP systems don't have them, the few that do, are mechanical in nature (Star Wars).

DnD was unique in its Roleplay through alignment concept, but it was always rigid and controversial. The "Chaotic Evil Orc Baby" debate is as old as DnD itself. Our political climate brought that tension to a head.

That all said, in conceding alignments and intrinsic morality, suddenly WOTC seems hellbent on just axing every facet of the game and it's settings.

The "Half-Elves are racist" bit is deeply disturbing to me. There's an implication there that's coming uncomfortably close to the ideas of racial purity and all being couched in feel-good language.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,798
The debate on alignment charts is a touchy subject to me. I don't think alignments are that great. Most PnP systems don't have them, the few that do, are mechanical in nature (Star Wars).

DnD was unique in its Roleplay through alignment concept, but it was always rigid and controversial. The "Chaotic Evil Orc Baby" debate is as old as DnD itself. Our political climate brought that tension to a head.

That all said, in conceding alignments and intrinsic morality, suddenly WOTC seems hellbent on just axing every facet of the game and it's settings.

The "Half-Elves are racist" bit is deeply disturbing to me. There's an implication there that's coming uncomfortably close to the ideas of racial purity and all being couched in feel-good language.
Tanis Half-Elven was my favorite character as a kid. It's amazing how WOTC finds a new way to molest my childhood every day
 

Chippy

Arcane
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Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
6,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have a solution to all woke content in games: make it mandatory for all developers to insert a Greta Thunberg character as a party member in all RPGs. Then make her everything woke. She will be completely useless of course, but simultaneously mandatory, and immune to all forms of death and cheat rage. When she isn't standing there, wagging her finger in disapproval, she will have the power to break the 4th wall and lecture you on climate change as it pertains to the game.

Play the RPG for too long and she will have the power to shut off your PC, and instigate a password to reuse it based on a question from the climate science you should have learned from the game previously.

Your entire gameplay style and C&C decisions will be logged and sent for algorithm review by the WEF. Those scoring enough points will automatically beat the game. Points will be deducted for obviously obsolete decisions: playing a Paladin, male, straight, etc and not indulging in furry sex with any and all enemies.

There will be a positive bonus ending for those who attempt to romance Greta. And a secondary one with real-world rewards for those who worship her.
 

Hagashager

Educated
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
634
I have a solution to all woke content in games: make it mandatory for all developers to insert a Greta Thunberg character as a party member in all RPGs. Then make her everything woke. She will be completely useless of course, but simultaneously mandatory, and immune to all forms of death and cheat rage. When she isn't standing there, wagging her finger in disapproval, she will have the power to break the 4th wall and lecture you on climate change as it pertains to the game.

Play the RPG for too long and she will have the power to shut off your PC, and instigate a password to reuse it based on a question from the climate science you should have learned from the game previously.

Your entire gameplay style and C&C decisions will be logged and sent for algorithm review by the WEF. Those scoring enough points will automatically beat the game. Points will be deducted for obviously obsolete decisions: playing a Paladin, male, straight, etc and not indulging in furry sex with any and all enemies.

There will be a positive bonus ending for those who attempt to romance Greta. And a secondary one with real-world rewards for those who worship her.
Use this as a prelude to a social credit score. Call it the "Life High Score" so no one thinks there's anything wrong. If you get too low a score you get killed, but they play the Mario death theme at your execution.
 

ds

Cipher
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Steam/GOG/etc. versions of Fallout 1 and 2 already come with the High Resolution patch which supports ultrawide resolutions.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,184
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Steam/GOG/etc. versions of Fallout 1 and 2 already come with the High Resolution patch which supports ultrawide resolutions.
There is a big difference between an intentional upscale HD graphic, with a software resizing. We dont actually want a rectangle pixel the size of a fingertip on the screen. we want some smooth art assets.
 

Butter

Arcane
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Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,573
What game in this legendary RPG series was made a decade after its predecessors? By a completely new group of developers? With a dubious move from 2D to 3D? And introduced level scaling? And is the normie's favourite entry in the series?

That's right! Wizardry 8!
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
7,579
By a completely new group of developers?
That group made Jagged Alliance 2.
What game in this legendary RPG series was made a decade after its predecessors? By a completely new group of developers? With a dubious move from 2D to 3D? And introduced level scaling? And is the normie's favourite entry in the series?

That's right! Wizardry 8!
Fallout 3
 

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