Trigger the codex with a statement.

[Zlaja]

Elden Ring is what happens if you apply the PacMan game loop to an open world.

Pac-Man is an open world game. You can just pick a direction and walk.

some paths are blocked by unbeatable enemies so it's not real open world.

You wanna beat any enemy at Lv.1? Sorry, but Pac-man doesn't scale to your level.

 

[ind33d]

Dark Souls is okay.

in retrospect dark souls was never good, but its controls are so responsive that it feels like it is

 

[Rincewind]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

 

[Vic]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

They do if it has tactical combat and you play on harder difficulty.The problem solving is applied to combat encounters.

 

[ind33d]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

They do if it has tactical combat and you play on harder difficulty.The problem solving is applied to combat encounters.

almost nobody else understands this. an RPG is only an RPG because the difficulty is high enough to force you to manage your resources, whether that's money, spells, or soldiers

 

[Rincewind]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

They do if it has tactical combat and you play on harder difficulty.The problem solving is applied to combat encounters.

Incidentally, as I happen to love adventure games, I like RPGs with turn-based tactical combat the most. So I agreee.

The other category of RPGs I like are the ones I play for immersion, so party-based dungeon crawlers or third/first-person ARPGs. But those must have some excellent atmosphere, story, or exploration (preferably all of these) because there aren't many puzzles and the combat is just there to provide some variety.

 

[Rincewind]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

They do if it has tactical combat and you play on harder difficulty.The problem solving is applied to combat encounters.

almost nobody else understands this. an RPG is only an RPG because the difficulty is high enough to force you to manage your resources, whether that's money, spells, or soldiers

Yeah, I like tactical games on hard difficulty, and even The Witcher 1 became much more interesting on the hardest difficulty because the potion and resource management requires some thought and planning.

 

[ind33d]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

They do if it has tactical combat and you play on harder difficulty.The problem solving is applied to combat encounters.

almost nobody else understands this. an RPG is only an RPG because the difficulty is high enough to force you to manage your resources, whether that's money, spells, or soldiers

Yeah, I like tactical games on hard difficulty, and even The Witcher 1 became much more interesting on the hardest difficulty because the potion and resource management requires some thought and planning.

that's why i bounced off Witcher 1, i was playing on medium

 

[Rincewind]

that's why i bounced off Witcher 1, i was playing on medium

Yeah, on hardest you're really required to read the encyclopedia entries about the monsters and figure out the best attack/defense strategy against them, and it's almost impossible to survive in some areas without stocking up on the correct potions. I can see why it would be rather meh on medium if you can just click through the fights.

 

[Pikoman]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

True, that's why Quest for Glory is so good. Can't remember the last time I had to open a walkthrough for something in a RPG. Most of the shit I spoil myself about is due to my own autism of liking to read or watch reviews, forum threads and other stuff about a game I currently play for some reason and inadvertently coming across a "hint" of some sort.

I think it's a shame that quests in most RPG haven't embraced the adventure game formula for at least some of the problems you have to solve. No need for them to be very hard or elaborate like some of the earliest Sierra titles designed to squeeze out your money via hint phone lines. Simple shit like having a shovel or a rope and using it on an object is relatively rare in RPGs. The formula instead is that an NPC tells you to get object X from place Y and then you "use" it automatically while it's in your inventory on object Z to proceed.

 

[Butter]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

True, that's why Quest for Glory is so good. Can't remember the last time I had to open a walkthrough for something in a RPG. Most of the shit I spoil myself about is due to my own autism of liking to read or watch reviews, forum threads and other stuff about a game I currently play for some reason and inadvertently coming across a "hint" of some sort.

I think it's a shame that quests in most RPG haven't embraced the adventure game formula for at least some of the problems you have to solve. No need for them to be very hard or elaborate like some of the earliest Sierra titles designed to squeeze out your money via hint phone lines. Simple shit like having a shovel or a rope and using it on an object is relatively rare in RPGs. The formula instead is that an NPC tells you to get object X from place Y and then you "use" it automatically while it's in your inventory on object Z to proceed.

Play Wizardry 6 and 7.

 

[Eirinjas]

Correct_Carlo is only pretending to be retarded.

 

[ind33d]

a lot of people don't want to hear this but a major influence on early D&D was professional wrestling, and that's why millennial bluehairs don't understand RPGs

sweaty men acting and pretending to hit each other, hmm...

 

[Pikoman]

Play Wizardry 6 and 7.

A Wizardry game is definitely on my backlog in regards to some of the older classics I haven't played, imaginative quests/puzzles or not. Though I've thought about going with Wizardry 8 first in the past, before I got sidetracked by something. From what little I know of Wizardry 8, it is also lauded for its quest design yeah? Total neophyte to blobbers myself, also heard good shit about Grimoire's design in that regard, but I'll most likely play one of the direct inspirations of it first.

 

[Vic]

Total neophyte to blobbers myself, also heard good shit about Grimoire's design in that regard, but I'll most likely play one of the direct inspirations of it first.

If you like puzzles and real time blobbers as opposed to turn based, try Legend of Grimrock I & II

 

[Rincewind]

True, that's why Quest for Glory is so good. [...] I think it's a shame that quests in most RPG haven't embraced the adventure game formula for at least some of the problems you have to solve. No need for them to be very hard or elaborate like some of the earliest Sierra titles designed to squeeze out your money via hint phone lines. Simple shit like having a shovel or a rope and using it on an object is relatively rare in RPGs. The formula instead is that an NPC tells you to get object X from place Y and then you "use" it automatically while it's in your inventory on object Z to proceed.

Exactly my thoughts. Quest for Glory is more RPG than most "proper RPGs". Having to shoot things or whack them on the head as the primary "problems solving" option in RPGs is starting to put me off lately. I mean, that's the most primitive form of "problem resolution", and it just gets old, unless the game has excellent tactical combat. But even then, the game basically only becomes a tactical combat simulator, which can be cool, but yeah, also a bit one-dimensional for a "role-playing game".

Age of Decadence (one of my favourite games) hits a good balance between tactical combat, role-playing elements, and replayability. Heh, even Maniac Mansion is a lot more of an RPG than most "true RPGs" because of the branching paths and different solutions to problems based on which 3 kids you play out of the 7 possible playable characters.

If you like puzzles and real time blobbers as opposed to turn based, try Legend of Grimrock I & II

One of my favourite RPG genres, indeed. Amazing atmosphere, great exploration, and good puzzles.

This is why I don't get Baldur's Gate and similar games. Cool for a while, exploration is kinda interesting in the beginning, but it just becomes "painting the map" after a few hours. Combat is not very much tactical or fun because of that RTwP bullshit. No puzzles either, so you're just sent around the map killing stuff and collecting 10 pieces of X and shit... But okay, it has swords and magic and goblins and items and levelling so... "it's an RPG"... I guess.

Planescape Torment is actually closer to an adventure game (with really bad tacked-on combat), but my mistake was I expected an RPG and I was sorely disappointed...

 

[the mole]

planescape torment is massively overrated boomercore, I got to the part where the houses screamed and I was like hey this is nonsense and not that interesting

that was a few years ago, I'm a 30 year old white male, my first rpgs were jrpgs on various consoles, I've beat poe1/2, baldurs gate+dlc, fo1/fo2, arcanum, underrail expeditions, age of decadence, 75% complete pathfinders, and many others, all were more compelling than brainscrape torment

there is some special kind of gen x mindset it takes to appreciate this game, nihilistic and grunge

is a story automatically good just because it is different and subverts expectations, how far down the road until it's just postmodern nonsense

this is my most controversial codex opinion by far and I don't know why I haven't posted it here earlier

 

[Vic]

planescape torment is massively overrated boomercore,

Is it overrated though? PS:T is liked because of its writing. The only other game that can rival PS:T in that arena is Disco Elysium.

 

[Rincewind]

there is some special kind of gen x mindset it takes to appreciate this game, nihilistic and grunge

Yeah, my impression of the "good writing" was that this was written by either a teenager or some ultra-pretentious try-hard writer suffering from verbal diarrhoea.

The only other game that can rival PS:T in that arena is Disco Elysium.

There are certainly some amusing scenes in DE, but it also goes into pretentious territory far too often. That "inner narrator" voice is overly melodramatic and way over the top, it seriously annoyed me. But overall, a lot more amusing that P:T that's for sure, but also the product of a self-indulgent, pretentious author who is desperate to show off.

 

[Vic]

that's the guy who wrote PS:T, Mr. Chris Avellone

 

[Rincewind]

that's the guy who wrote PS:T, Mr. Chris Avellone

Yeah, if all his writing is like this, I'm unimpressed. Reminds me of those guitar players who just *can't stop* playing 100000 notes per second when half a dozen well-placed notes at 10% the tempo would have sufficed and would've been a lot more memorable.

PS:T reminded me of the prose of Neal Stephenson too. God, I cannot suffer the guy's writing; had to abort Snow Crash after about 20 pages in. Info-dumps everywhere.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Compared to adventure games, most RPGs don't need much thinking and problem solving skills.

Puzzles required for exploration test the player's critical-thinking and problem-solving skills.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Learning how to break a game is not the same as playing a game. You can beat every challenge a game presents to you with incredible ease but you still haven't experienced the game if all you did was nuke everything you came into contact with.

I like climbing map towers.

 

[ind33d]

Learning how to break a game is not the same as playing a game. You can beat every challenge a game presents to you with incredible ease but you still haven't experienced the game if all you did was nuke everything you came into contact with.

I like climbing map towers.

actually yeah, not enough games have environmental character development. finishing towers in Shadows of Mordor, Watch Dogs, and Assassin's Creed gives you a visual indication of how you have changed the world around you by how many map icons have been completed. ironically starfield added icons for discovering each individual store and it makes exploring the game feel more rewarding even though it's only cosmetic

 

[the mole]

planescape torment is massively overrated boomercore,

Is it overrated though? PS:T is liked because of its writing. The only other game that can rival PS:T in that arena is Disco Elysium.

everyone hates multiverses now because it's just anything can happen post modernism, yet somehow pst is the best rpg of all time, I'm not so sure about that

I played for probably 5 hours and I couldn't find a compelling choice or consequence, since then I have played many crpgs and beaten them but at the time I wasn't impressed or really amused