Darth Canoli
Arcane
Don't try so hard, you don't have any chance to get 2020's trophy, Ontopoly is in da house and secured his win already in 5 month ... New record ?
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Trigger the codex with a statement.
- Thread starter The Game Analists
- Start date
Don't try so hard, you don't have any chance to get 2020's trophy, Ontopoly is in da house and secured his win already in 5 month ... New record ?
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
You want more red pills of alpha rpg connoissaur?
The kickstarter era harmed the RPG genre more than anything else. The market was flooded with overhyped indie trash competing with proper RPGs for monies and gametime, thus creating a bad situation and forcing proper RPGs out of the market. Only 1 or 2 games from kickstarter were any good. The nice thing is that this era is over, and once Bethesda gets their head out of their butts, CRPG game design will advance again with the Elder Scrolls VI.
The kickstarter era harmed the RPG genre more than anything else. The market was flooded with overhyped indie trash competing with proper RPGs for monies and gametime, thus creating a bad situation and forcing proper RPGs out of the market. Only 1 or 2 games from kickstarter were any good. The nice thing is that this era is over, and once Bethesda gets their head out of their butts, CRPG game design will advance again with the Elder Scrolls VI.
Alphard
Guest
even for a bethestard hoping bethesda will provide anything meaningful to rpg genre is so delusional i don't even know how to reply to such laughable statement.
if anything next ES will be even more streamlined to make it playable by literally everyone, from a 5 yo to 90 grandma
Jesus, where have you been this whole time? Finally someone who manages to trigger me as the Lord commanded.
Who forced what out of the market and how, exactly? It should be hard for a bunch of studios without money and hopes to kick out of the marked the biggest behemoths in the videogame industry, don't you think?
Then I agree, most of the Kickstarter stuff is crap, but that's another topic.
laclongquan
Arcane
Fallout 1/2 simply ruin the shotgun category. Earlier when shotgun can use doubleshot mode it's okay. But now there's generally nothing of the soul of shotgun users left.
razvedchiki
Magister
try underrail for some hot shotgun action.
Alphard
Guest
yeah keep playing games with 2000 graphic
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
He probably owns a 2000 era PC, so it is understandable.
Cryomancer
Arcane
RPG codex is just the high fantasy version of stormfront.
You're right they didn't make good games. They made great games.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Let me explain it to you plainly so you can understand:
Games and gamers don't exist in a vacuum. Gamers are a known quantity (there are only so many white* autists with disposable income and time to actually buy and play CRPGs, they are a finite source). So every RPG developer competes with the other RPG developers for those sweet sweet sheckels, player time, and player/media hype. Every single time an RPG makes a splash in the market, it removes some sheckels, hype attention, and player time, from the available pool to other RPGs. Since RPGs are also typically huge games to finish.
That is the problem when the market is flooded with overhyped, overrated indie trash. It removes a lot of resources from the actually monocled quality stuff. If you are wasting time to play DOS2, you are not wasting it at playing Kangmaker, for example. See where this is going?
By the way, this also happens from the other end. Extremely superior well made CRPGs, can drown the filth and dominate the market all by themselves. Games like Skyrim and Fallout 4, drain a huge part of the market for themselves, just because of their sheer quality. That is why other major devs are very afraid to compete in the same market and don't attempt to release AAA Skyrim clones and Fallout 4 clones, despite Bethesda selling a boatload of copies with each major Gamebryo iteration.
*autists of other colors in Asia and Africa and S. America typically pirate that shit so no sheckels there
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Only hipsters say Alpha Protocol was a good game. It may have had a nice story and nice dialogue and C&C. I wouldn't know. I didn't come far. It was so buggy, it controlled like SHIIIIIIIITTTTTT and it also had that stupid hacking stuff. I just insta-uninstalled, life is too short for that garbage. I don't care about C&C, if i want C&C, i can live my real life. If your game is not enjoyable to play as a video game, throw it in the trash bin.
As for Deux Ex Human Revolution, it was awesome. Pure awesomeness. It was much better than the original Deux Ex in most ways that matter. Of course again, nostalgia fags and hipsterfags love to present the original Deus Ex like some kind of Godlike production that will never be surpassed in quality in centuries because it is "god" or some shit.
Us proper gamers who enjoy the progression of modern video games, know that Human Revolution and Mankind Divided are great Deus Ex prequels. I just wish the trilogy to end at some point. The story of that trilogy would have been AWESOME, judging from some easter eggs in Mankind Divided, and some comments from the voice actor.... Because of spoiled brats who complained about praxis points and review bombed MD, we might never see this. That is why we can't have good things.
Cryomancer
Arcane
Are you joking? A company like Troika could make modern versions of Arcanum and VtMB if they had access to kickstarter and similar platforms. Are you saying that AAA games are better than Indies? That Diablo 3 is better than path of exile? That dragon age inquisition is better than kingmaker?
OwlCat without kickstarter would had to secure a publisher for pathfinder kingmaker and the publisher would probably force then to "follow trends" than to make a amazing RPG.
Like what? Name one "overhyped overrated indie trash". Just one.
If you don't like, you can stay with your Dialog wheel cooldown based wow cone Nº 35654683551
I an happy with OwlCat and similar companies having a chance to make games having to please the buyers, not what publishers believes that consumers want. And guess what : This games sells. "Titles by this segment saw sales of $27.6 million, with the release of Dakar 18 and Pathfinder Kingmaker cited as key performers" https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...rdics-net-sales-up-1-403-percent-to-usd139-5m
Yes, because every country in south america is poor, Chile is not similar in GDP per capta to some European countries and there are no people of color on US nor white people in south Africa or in south america. In fact, the last Emperor of Brazil, son of a European father and mother is brown due a geographical magical mutation, but all of his partent's aren't. That blonde guy in clearly brown > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_II_of_Brazil#/media/File:RetratodompedroIIcrianca.JPG
And there are no regional pricing in poorer regions either, including white majority poor regions like most part of Eastern Europe. Companies like GoG localize services on that regions only to waste money since everyone piracy their games. And everyone who enjoy RPG has autism /sarcasm
Are you crazy? Skyrim is only popular due mods. And Fallout 4 is the worst shit ever. It has even dialog wheel...
Fallout 76 with hours long bug compilations are pure AAA quality. How dare people spend money on underrail and not in this masterpiece!!!!
Give me actual relevant examples or you are talking about nothing. The D:OS2 / Kingmaker one doesn't make any sense for two reasons:
- both games have been incredibly successful;
- both games came out of Kickstarter.
Obviously the market can be saturated since everyone can only play a finite number of games during a given period of time, but going from that to "thanks to Kickstarter the market is flooded with trash indie RPGs so there is no more market for actual good stuff" is a big leap. What trash indie RPGs are you talking about? Which good RPGs "drowned in the filth" of a saturated market and weren't able to sell?
During this Kickstarter craze that supposedly "drowned" good games with trash, Bethesda published (at least that I know of) 4 games: Skyrim Online, Fallout 4, The Elder Scrolls: Blades and Fallout 76. Almost a game each year (and half of them are mobile trash or out of time MMO). Do you think they could have published more RPGs if there were no D:OS2 and Kingmaker? And do you really think that those games would have been better than D:OS2 and Kingmaker? I mean, they put out FUCKING MOBILE GAMES. CDPR developed and published The Witcher 3 and two giant expansions and started working on an incredibly ambitious project like Cyberpunk 2077.
What the fuck are you talking about, man?
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Alright, let me educate the plebs, again, with my superior knowledge:
1) I am not attacking Kickstarter. I believe it is a nice tool, but predictably it has been misused. When i am talking about the "kickstarter era", i am not talking against Kickstarter itself. I am talking about the majority of crpgs that spawned from it. It is the games i criticize, not Kickstarter itself
2) AAA games are preferable than indies. If you could have let's say Age of Decadence or Underrail on Dragon Age inquisition's engine and EA production values, with every single other aspect (story, dialogue, gameplay) left unchanged, wouldn't you? You bet you would. You are a sucker for eye candy and voice acting like ALL of gamers. You only suffer through indies because you are looking for some "hardcore" aspects and there are no AAA offerings for those aspects, and the only sperg devs willing to design games for sperg players have only so much resources available to develop them.
3) Yes, games sell on all regions of the globe. But the big fat chunks of money come from certain markets. Asia (except Japan and China in recent years), Africa, and S. America combined, can't make up USA alone in revenue.
4) Dialogue wheel is not a bad thing if properly implemented.
5) Skyrim is not "played only for mods". Most people don't mod Skyrim much, if at all. Console people didn't even have access to mods at all. And to show you how clearly out of touch and insane you are, name me the most popular mods of Skyrim. Do they fundamentally change the core of the game? NO, is the answer. The most popular ones are unofficial patch, Sky UI, and a few others that just add some textures, weapons, armors, etc. Thus, they just add content, or improve graphics. The core of the game is the fucking same. Modded Skyrim is just "enhanced core Skyrim". So people don't play Skyrim "because of mods", they play it with mods because it enhanced the experience already in Skyrim. This myth of "skyrim is only played because of mods" is retarded, and fake news, like most of the shit butthurt spergs make up here on the codex. It is like saying that people play BG2 or Fallout 2 only because of the high res mod.
6) Fallout 4 is even more a clear case of "mods don't make the game", because there are no great mods at the moment. The most popular ones just add settlement stuff, like the SimSettlement mod. Or add guns and unofficial patches and armors.... There is no total conversion mod yet. People who play modded FO4 still play core FO4. And FO4 is awesome, one of the best CRPGs ever made. That is why the masses enjoy it.
7) Fallout 76 was never meant to be a core single player RPG. It is a spinnof. Badly made, for online sperging. It is much better these days though. Still better than most indie shit you people are playing.
Oh, I didn't know we were talking about things that could never happen, not even in a million years. Nice to know.
You did it, the first thing in here that properly triggered me.
You are not gonna get every other aspect unchanged. Never. If your game consumes a budget the size of Dragon Age Inquisition it has to be diluted down until it becomes a lifeless husk to make the sales more safe. Having ambitious mechanics or an ambitious story is a massive risk, and failing with a AAA budget means you are out of business. All your programmers are unemployed now and you are in massive debt, depending on the structure of your company.
Remember, Planescape:Torment flopped. The majority of customers dont want incline, they want popcorn entertainment after a hard workday.
Citizen
Guest
Age of Decadence? Sure, it's ugly AF. Underrail? It's visuals are perfect for the game's atmosphere, I would never want it to be ugly bioware-style 3d
Eye candy doesn't mean high production values or expensive 3d graphics, retard. Eye candy means consistent and interesting artstyle. STYLE, not tech behind it. Underrail and PoE are much better looking games that any bioware or bethesda ugly 3d crap
Name one single thing dialogue wheel does better than just listing dialogue options? Apart from being easier to use with console controller. Dialogue wheel just leads to simplification by reducing the amount of options
BTW kys bethestard
Also fuck voice acting. Useless money sink that it is. I skip the dialogue ahead after reading the text box before even 30% of the audio has played in 80% of rpgs I play. Bless the Japanese for making voice acting rare in their games.
(I feel like this has the potential to trigger so it stands alone)
(I feel like this has the potential to trigger so it stands alone)
Cryomancer
Arcane
1 - Name the bad RPG's which kickstarter spawned. I can't think a single bad RPG. Please. I an waiting.
2 - It will NEVER happens. Depth and accessibility are opposite things. EA focusing on accessibility needs to sacrifice depth. But there are indies with amazing graphics and production value. Eg? Indies made on Cryengine.
DOS2 looks good and has fully voice acting. I don't like dos2 but the production value is undeniable.
3 - Yes, but why companies invest in this countries if is not at least net positive?
4 - Name one game where it was good and not destroyed the iterations, story and dumbed down the dialog...
5 - Today, Skyrim is played by the mods. Of course, it was a success on launch because is a dumbed down version of oblivion which is a dumbed down version of morrowind, but no single player game can survive and be popular for so many years without modding.
6 - FL4 the best RPG's? Are you crazy?
FL4 is inferior to New Vegas as a shooter and as a RPG.
7 - No, is not better than the indie games that i play. In fact, the games that i play has way less bugs, no p2w microtransactions, has NPC's and no hackers.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1. No indie CRPG has been "incredibly successful". Success is measured by the size of the market. There is a huge pool of players looking for CRPGs, because it is one of the most popular genres on the planet. The market cap is fairly high, which is why games like Skyrim, Witcher 3, and Fallout 4, sell so many copies and enjoy HUGE PLAYTIMES if you look at available player data (while most indie CRPG are never completed, looking at the same data). So when an indie CRPG sells let's say 1m or 2m copies, that is a great success in terms of indie games, but small pocket change for the size of the market as a whole. If you can only sell 1-2m copies to the market (of how many, 100m steam active users and more than 1 billion accounts? more? How many they are now?), and that is for the top rated and most PR heavy indie CRPG, like DOS2, sold in a one of the 2-3 most popular genres, then your game is not "incredibly successful", it is just there.
2. As for Bethesda, Bethesda develops rarely because making proper AAA CRPGS is hard, takes a lot of resources and time. Bethsda does not publish "a game per year". What are you smoking? Bethesda develops a game each 3 or 4 years, most of the time. Morrowind 2002, Oblivion 2006, Fallout 3 2008, Skyrim 2011, Fallout 4 2015, and we are nowhere near receiving the next single player game. THOSE are the games i am talking about. New Vegas was just a spinoff from Fallout 3, it used the same game engine and assets, it is more of a standalone expansion than a separate game. So yes it got released in 2010 by Obsidian, but it doesn't change the trend of taking many years to release something new by Bethesda. Fallout 76, again, is a spinnoff of FO4 for online play, it is not a single player RPG and does not compete in the same market, as is Elder Scrolls Online, so i don't count them as single player RPG releases either.
3. Have you ever noticed that despite the insane success of Bethesda main/core CRPGs, there are no AAA copycats? I mean, every single semi-succesful shit gets copied to Oblivion. Dark Souls got copied a ton, and it only sold a fraction of what Bethesda sells. Roguelikes get copied a lot. Minecraft got copied a lot. Fucking MOBA and battle royal is full of copies. Isometric CRPGs copying BG and Fallout are a dime a dozen. But not Bethesda games. Oh no. Those are never copied. There are no "Skyrim-likes" or "Fallout-likes" on the market (well, The Outer worlds advertised copying New Vegas but that was a lie, it was more of a Mass Effect clone). Isn't that strange? If you were an AAA developer, wouldn't you want to make a Skyrim clone, since apparently the market is THIRSTY for a Skyrim-type game? People still play Skyrim in droves after 10 years, why not cover that market and sell them a new Skyrim?
I will tell you why. Because it is FUCKING HARD. It is extremely large in scope. Copying indie platformers, indie roguelikes, indie crpgs, is fuckign easy, even russian drunkards can do it. But making a proper AAA cprg is FUCKING HARD. So, in order for that investment to pay off, publishers need to be sure there is decent chance they are going to make their sheckels back. And when they see all the "hardcore" crpg retards in places like this and other online sites, trashtalk Bethesda all the time, and prop up indie garbage as the "savior of the industry", and spending all those sheckels distributing them to indy mediocrities, then they don't make the investment to clone Gamebryo games. It is just not worth it. It is a huge risk. They don't only have to compete with Bethesda games themselves, they also have to compete with indie edgelords.
That is how the market is drowned in easy to make shit, and AAA CRPGs are a rarity these days. If you can swim in accolades and get decent sales by delivering indie Unity based garbage, why attempt to make something to topple Skyrim?
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1) I am triggering you because i am delivering red pills here, and you don't like it, you prefer living in your matrix world of indie trash
2) If a game's aspects are good, then they are going to be left unchanged. There is this myth in the game community that somehow a game needs to be low quality/dumbed down in order to sell. This myth is retarded and only butthurt spergs and hipster edgelords spread it. People only buy fun video games. If they are not having fun with certain game aspects, then that means they won't buy the games. Video games are entertainment, not an achievement. Video games are not a struggle to surpass or a budge of honor to collect. Video games are entertainment you spend your hard earned cash on.
The reason people don't buy Age of Decadence, is because they are not having fun with it, and that is a fact. You may argue about its individual strengths and claim how quality it is in some aspects, but at the end of the day, if people had fun playing it, they would buy it. There is no one stopping them from mass buying it and enjoying it. The only one stopping them from enjoying it is the gameplay of Age of Decadence itself. And don't tell me about marketing and "people don't know". Plenty of spergy indies have become raging successes (Minecraft anyone?) because of word of mouth. If a game is fun, it will sell. Period.
AAA companies aren't stupid. In fact, most AAA game developers are more intelligent than most members of this forum, they are well educated to get the job. They know what people like, and what not. They know what works, and what not. What a vocal minority in the Codex pretends to want does not define what a quality RPG is. The worldwide RPG audience defines what a good RPG is.
So when you are telling me, that a game like Age of Decance would never be unchanged if having the AAA budget of Dragon Age Inquisition, you are subconciously revealing that you know that people don't like this kind of gameplay and they don't find it fun. Gameplay is gameplay, if it is enjoyable, people will flock to it. If it isn't, it will flop.
As for Planescape Torment, that overrated visual novel that is worshipped here, there is a reason it flopped (wait for it): It wasn't that good.
Cryomancer
Arcane
Looking to steamspy most owned RPG's https://steamspy.com/genre/RPG
Fallout 4 Owners: 5,000,000 .. 10,000,000 https://steamspy.com/app/377160
Path of Exile Owners: 10,000,000 .. 20,000,000 https://steamspy.com/app/238960
Grim Dawn Owners: 10,000,000 .. 20,000,000 https://steamspy.com/app/219990
Mount & Blade Bannerlord Owners: 5,000,000 .. 10,000,000 https://steamspy.com/app/261550
The reason to why AAA sells is due marketing + brand recognition. Not quality.
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Also, you are comparing a single indie with a single AAA game. When we have far more indies than AAA games. There are almost no overlap between DOS2, PFKM and PoE consumers. You also to compare CRPGs with ARPGs when ARPG's always sells more. Action sells more. This is why comparing Fallout 3/4, very action focused games with Pathfinder Kingmaker is not honest. But comparing to Bannerlord which is far more action focused is more fair. And note, Bannerlord was launched far after FL4 and was never discounted.
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TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1. Almost all kickstarter backed CRPGs are mediocre. They are not "bad" per se. Just mediocre. The vast majority never reached parity with 90s CRPGs they copied. Only 2-3 matched them. No kickstarter backed CRPG ever surpassed 90s games, let alone games like Skyrim
2. "Depth and accessibility are opposite things". This is not true. Depth implies a learning curve, and that prohibits some sales to a more casual audience, true. But accessibility is solely on the hands of the developer. If a game is not accessible, it is always the developer's fault. The "it is deep so nothing could be done to make it more accessible" excuse is just that, an excuse, to cover for the developer being a lazy incompetent cunt. People who look to buy CRPGs don't mind depth, if it is accessible. That is, if it has a good tutorial, and gameplay is well balanced enough to introduce the player to the more complex elements procedurally. If it is well balanced in terms of difficulty and learning curve, the masses will play it. Depth is just the scope of the gameplay choices, it is not about how it is presented to the player.
3. Investing in localization is peanuts comparing to investing in development dudes... Especially if the population is large enough. Games are never localized in greek because the greek market is very tiny, so few people speak the language. Even before Greece's bankruptcy, the market was so small we couldn't support the localization costs except in soccer games with widespread appeal. Russia on the other hand, despite being a piracy Haven, has what, 150 million peoples and how many abroad speaking the language? So it makes sense to localize more shit there.
4. Fallout 4
5. No, Skyrim is not played for the mods. I already answered that, i won't copy myself again. Most people today mod Skyrim, because it is easy to do and enhances the experience. But they would play Skyrim even without mods, if they didn't have the ability to mod it. Because Skyrim is simply put the best fantasy CRPG. Nothing has surpassed it yet.
6. Claiming that New Vegas is superior as a shooter to Fallout 4 is making sure everyone with a brain knows you are an idiot, or just contrarian just for being contrarian. I could understand some spergs arguing about the RPG parts, but arguing about the shooter parts is labeling you an idiot. Sorry.
7. The vast majority of people would still prefer to suffer through Fallout 76's bugs and pay tons of money for its microtransactions, than suffer through the indies you play.
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