Citizen
Guest
Compared to the magnificent, misunderstood by the unwashed masses, artsitic masterpieces from Bethesda and Bioware? Literally the most bland soulless corporate produced moneygrabs on the market
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Compared to the magnificent, misunderstood by the unwashed masses, artsitic masterpieces from Bethesda and Bioware? Literally the most bland soulless corporate produced moneygrabs on the market
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1. It is amazing, the stats you provide prove ME correct, yet you think you proved me wrong... Amazing, just amazing... WOOSHHHHH the stats flew around your head....
What did i say? I said, that if a game is enjoyable, it will sell, it doesn't matter if it is AAA or not. PoE, Grim Dawn, Mount and Blade, are NOT AAA, and have NOT a huge marketing budget. People play mount and blade because (wait for it) THEY ENJOY IT. People play Grim Dawn because THEY ENJOY IT. People play PoE because THEY ENJOY IT.
Also, those are DEEP games, with inferior production values, yet they have sold MORE THAN DRAGON AGE INQUISITION, which supposedly was dumbed down in order to sell.... you can't have it both ways. Either you need to water down Age of Decadence in order to sell, or you don't.... What gives?
How come Mount and Blade is so fucking popular when the graphics and production values are shit and the gameplay is spergy as fuck? Is it because people are looking for enjoyable games, and it happens to be enjoyable, more than games like Undergarbage, Age of Cuckery, Atomicalbullshit RPG etc?
2. "There are almost no overlap between DOS2, PFKM and PoE consumers". I am done with you. Seriously? First you claim New Vegas has better shooting mechanics than Fallout 4, and now "there is almost no overlap between those 3"? Seriously? I am done. You can compete with that other cretin who told me yesterday after having argued for pages and pages with me for "Fallout vs Fallout 4" and then he admitted that he has never played Fallout 4, for which one of you is more retarded. And they awarded ME the 2018 prize... LOL.
Cryomancer
Arcane
1 - Still no example of a single game and you keep repeating that skyrim which allow you to become a archmage without knowing a spell is as "quality rpg"
2 - Not true. ALL, i repeat, ALL AAA games lacks depth.
3 - Now you understood my point. Thanks. More people live in poorer areas of the world.
4 - Fallout 4 is trash. Even BUGthesda realized that having to write 4 options is a awful thing.
5 - Why do you believe that a game with immortal NPCs, linearity, no consequences for your actions, no attributes which has way spell effects than morrowind is the best RPG?
6 - No, armor and ammo mechanics on FL4 are just RETARDED.
Armor only absorbs by percentage, meaning that a 9mm SMG has greater damage per second vs any enemy, while on new vegas, a anti materiel round with armor piercing round will not deal more DPS than a SMG vs a unarmored enemy but will vs a heavily armored enemy.
You can use Dragon's Breath rounds, Flechette, slugs(...) while on FL4 you can use "shotgun ammo" for 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotgun.
7 - Not true.
I an putting screenshots since you din't entered the https://steamcharts.com
An early access indie turkish RPG is selling far more than Fallout 76
EDIT : As Extracredits have said, CRPG's seems to have a cap around 1.5mi players. Action RPG's, has a much higher cap.
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TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1. How could Bethesda and Bioware be "misunderstood by the unwashed masses", when they are running circles around your indie trash in terms of sale numbers and popularity?
2. There is no "moneygrab" in the video game industry. People use that word, but they don't know what it means. Video games are not a basic human need to satisfy, they are an optional luxury, and there are huge alternatives for entertainment, both in terms of video game titles available and in terms of other hobbies available. so you can't force clients to give you money, you have to make them wanting to give it to you.
So, since clients flocked in droves to give Bethesda and Bioware their sheckels, it proves they liked those games and they weren't soulless. Everyone is still talking about Dragon Age and Mass Effect and Skyrim. No one gives a fuck about Underrail or Age of Decadence or Shadowrun Honk Kong or ATOM RPG etc etc. How can this be "soulless"?
The only time Bethesda and Bioware produced soulless garbage, they flopped. FO76 flopped, Mass Effect Andromeda flopped, Anthem flopped. Dragon Age Inquisition didn't exactly flop, but it wasn't really enjoyed either and after Witcher 3 people compared it and decided they didn't like it much.
The Jester
Cipher
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2020
- Messages
- 1,744
Black lives matter
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1 - Still no example of a single game and you keep repeating that skyrim which allow you to become a archmage without knowing a spell is as "quality rpg"
2 - Not true. ALL, i repeat, ALL AAA games lacks depth.
3 - Now you understood my point. Thanks. More people live in poorer areas of the world.
4 - Fallout 4 is trash. Even BUGthesda realized that having to write 4 options is a awful thing.
5 - Why do you believe that a game with immortal NPCs, linearity, no consequences for your actions, no attributes which has way spell effects than morrowind is the best RPG?
6 - No, armor and ammo mechanics on FL4 are just RETARDED.
Armor only absorbs by percentage, meaning that a 9mm SMG has greater damage per second vs any enemy, while on new vegas, a anti materiel round with armor piercing round will not deal more DPS than a SMG vs a unarmored enemy but will vs a heavily armored enemy.
You can use Dragon's Breath rounds, Flechette, slugs(...) while on FL4 you can use "shotgun ammo" for 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotgun.
7 - Not true.
I an putting screenshots since you din't entered the https://steamcharts.com
An early access indie turkish RPG is selling far more than Fallout 76
1. This argument about "an archmage without knowing a single spell" is retarded, because it is unrealistic (and btw you need to know at least the initial spell to enter). The title of "Archmage" does not imply someone is a more powerful mage than the rest, it is not a competition of spells. It is just an office position and since it is the mage college, it has the title of Archmage. You don't earn that position by being a powerful mage, you earn that position by solving the college's problems and proving that you are a great leader for the guild. That is the fucking point. Even in real life people in leadership positions often are not great experts but are great leaders. As for Skyrim's college, you entered there to be taught magic, not to teach them magic. It is a college after all....
2-5, i won't keep that discussion either because i have already replied or because they need another page to write about them, sorry
6. Real life armor does absorb by percentage. It is more realistic. Contrary to popular belief, armor does not prevent all damage, even if it does stop penetration. When you get shot, even if your armor stops the bullet from penetrating your skin, you still get the blunt trauma from the force of the bullet, and you could even die if let's say that blunt trauma caused brain hemorage due to hemostatic pressure. For example, blunt weapons in real life are effective vs armor because if they hit with enough force they transfer a lot of that force on the opponent, without the need to pierce the armor. The reason blunt weapons weren't used more was because blunt weapons require a beast of a man to be effective vs armor (and space around you in order to swing), since you need to have strength in your hands in order to transfer it on the enemy's body. Shields could help a lot vs slow blunt weapons, thus blunt weapons didn't see much usage compared to their effectiveness vs armor. Piercing weapons were prefered because they could pierce armor better than slashing weapons, gave much reach, and didn't need lots of strength.
If you are wondering if a full burst of SMG is effective vs armor, wear a bulletproof vest and stand in close range to a guy with an MP5 and tell him to empty his clip on your vest. See how that goes for you.... Hint: High level bulletproof vests don't get penetrated by 9mm bullets. But i would like to see how you would feel after having an MP5 clip emptied on your chest. If you could speak after that, that is.
Also, ammo types are not about shooting mechanics... Doom Eternal doesn't have different shotgun ammo types either, i suppose it is a much worse shooter than New Vegas.... Seriously spergs, get a grip....
7. Fallout 76 flopped commercially, but you see, i am not arguing about FO76 because it is not a single player CRPG. My main argument is for single player CRPGs. Mount and Blade is not a single player game either. Most people play it for the multiplayer.
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I admire your dedication to the art of autism and trolling.
The more a game sells the better it is and game quality will definitly lead to sales. Have you had your brain fried in a chinese reeducation camp to truly believe that?
Harry Potter and the Da Vinci code are some of the best books ever written and Avengers Endgame and Avatar are high cinema by your logic.
Popularity does not equal quality unless your mind is built like that of an ant. And certain trademarks which a classic needs are posion for the market.
Cult almost all flop on release in all pieces of media, why does your sectoid mind think it should be different for games TemplarGR ?
The more a game sells the better it is and game quality will definitly lead to sales. Have you had your brain fried in a chinese reeducation camp to truly believe that?
Harry Potter and the Da Vinci code are some of the best books ever written and Avengers Endgame and Avatar are high cinema by your logic.
Popularity does not equal quality unless your mind is built like that of an ant. And certain trademarks which a classic needs are posion for the market.
Cult almost all flop on release in all pieces of media, why does your sectoid mind think it should be different for games TemplarGR ?
Not the hero we needed but the one we deserved
laclongquan
Arcane
Boy you are two or three decades out of date with that comment.
Leaving aside the Jap (rich) market with 120 million of users.
THe upcoming Chinese market also has a pretty good base of rich gamers in absolute number in their 1.2 billion people.
Cryomancer
Arcane
After this i give up. Nobody ever developed armor piercing rounds IRL, and nobody uses large caliber rounds IRL life either, because a AR500 body armor is equally effective vs a 14.5x114mm and .22 LR. In fact, a burst of 5 .22 LR rounds is far more likely to kill you. For hunting animals too, nobody uses .45-70 ot .375 H&H Magnum in big hunt games. Spray and pray for the win!!! Heavier cartridges and weapons are just waste of money and useless weight, Governments and PMCs spending a lot of money equipping their soldiers with body armor are just wasting money since they are useless. Any burst of any caliber can incapacitate any soldier regardless of how well armored he is. And with armored sci-fi robots like Securitrons, being able to spray and pray then with pistol caliber weapons makes perfectly sense. Bugthesda is the best company ever. And this indie games, how dare they exist and take money from our Lord and Savior Todd Howard?
The number of sales is what define the quality of something. If some billionaire decides to buy millions of copies of Kingmaker, Kingmaker will become better by no reason!!! And the proof that indies sucks(i never mentioned a single indie who sucks) is because when i compare tactical RPGs with AAA action RPG's, ARPG's sells more!! I never compare indie/small studio Action with Action because it doesn't corroborate with my narrative; Praise Tod!!! /sarcasm
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Now seriously. Look to Bannerlord. Everything is so gorgeous.
And look to AAA design of Blizzard
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TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Actually, it is the other way around. The Codex right now operates on the assumption that "popularity is inversely related to quality". That is, most Codexers simply assume that anything popular is shit, just because it is popular. Which is strange considering that some of the games Codex likes, are popular, like Mount and Blade Bannerlord. I suppose we will soon be seeing people claiming Bannelord is shit, just because it is mainstream. If the next Pathfinder becomes mainstream, it will be considered shit too, by the codex cabal.
I am here not claiming that "popular=quality". I can argue pretty easily on the quality of let's say Skyrim, without needing to be based on sales figures alone. The reason i am using sales figures, is to showcase without having to write a diatribe that so many gazillions of people can't be wrong. I am using sales numbers to showcase that if the Age of Decadence RPG entertainment was really better than the Skyrim RPG entertainment, people would buy Age of Decadence instead of Skyrim.
This is actually already happening, particularily on 4chans /v/ there is a lot of salt against Bannerlord. /vg/ is a tad more chill I think.
Both of these games are shit so who cares?
Thousands of flies eat shit. Fifa sells gangbusters every season for a hollow shell of a product. Anthem sold decently well for crying out loud. Truth is quality is widely unrelated to sales at all. Public image and marketing is much more important for sales.
Cryomancer
Arcane
As for bannerlord, the channers are criticizing not due the game quality, but the feminism.
But it can be fixed with a mod "A very simple Mod, it changes how female Followers talk when you first meet them. It removes much of the modern-day man-bashing (both overtly and subtle) comments that just would not fit into a medievalesque period of the time. " https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/490?tab=docs
Just like we can fix spells and invocations on NWN2 with mods. Some times mods are necessary to fix some dumb dev decisions, but Bannerlord is far from a bad game just because it has feminism.
You are ignoring a crucial factor. EVERYONE knows skyrim. Age of Decadence, few people knows that it even exist. It doesn't happens only to games, i an sure that you know a local shop which offers better products from better prices but still sells less than larger stores.
Companies spend millions in marketing by a reason.
But it can be fixed with a mod "A very simple Mod, it changes how female Followers talk when you first meet them. It removes much of the modern-day man-bashing (both overtly and subtle) comments that just would not fit into a medievalesque period of the time. " https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/490?tab=docs
Just like we can fix spells and invocations on NWN2 with mods. Some times mods are necessary to fix some dumb dev decisions, but Bannerlord is far from a bad game just because it has feminism.
You are ignoring a crucial factor. EVERYONE knows skyrim. Age of Decadence, few people knows that it even exist. It doesn't happens only to games, i an sure that you know a local shop which offers better products from better prices but still sells less than larger stores.
Companies spend millions in marketing by a reason.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
After this i give up. Nobody ever developed armor piercing rounds IRL, and nobody uses large caliber rounds IRL life either, because a AR500 body armor is equally effective vs a 14.5x114mm and .22 LR. In fact, a burst of 5 .22 LR rounds is far more likely to kill you. For hunting animals too, nobody uses .45-70 ot .375 H&H Magnum in big hunt games. Spray and pray for the win!!! Heavier cartridges and weapons are just waste of money and useless weight, Governments and PMCs spending a lot of money equipping their soldiers with body armor are just wasting money since they are useless. Any burst of any caliber can incapacitate any soldier regardless of how well armored he is. And with armored sci-fi robots like Securitrons, being able to spray and pray then with pistol caliber weapons makes perfectly sense. Bugthesda is the best company ever. And this indie games, how dare they exist and take money from our Lord and Savior Todd Howard?
The number of sales is what define the quality of something. If some billionaire decides to buy millions of copies of Kingmaker, Kingmaker will become better by no reason!!! And the proof that indies sucks(i never mentioned a single indie who sucks) is because when i compare tactical RPGs with AAA action RPG's, ARPG's sells more!! I never compare indie/small studio Action with Action because it doesn't corroborate with my narrative; Praise Tod!!! /sarcasm
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Now seriously. Look to Bannerlord. Everything is so gorgeous.
And look to AAA design of Blizzard
This is what happens when a sperg's only weapon and armor knowledge comes from video games.... Seriously dude, stop posting.
Of course different variants of ammunition exist in real life, but contrary to popular belief, they don't change the qualities of the weapon much (well except something like shotgun slugs vs pellets, which is a larger difference than hollow point vs armor piercing 9mm for example). They influence them a bit, but they don't turn that weapon into a different weapon, just because they alter the shape of the bullet slightly. An armor piercing 9mm bullet doesn't just pierce armor like butter just because it says "armor piercing" on the box. Perhaps in movies and vidya games, but not in real life. In real life the armor piercing variant has a larger chance of piercing lower caliber armor (but it is less destructive vs skin, delivers far less power and creates lesser blunt trauma). I would prefer using non-armor piercing ammo in real life, because armor piercing stopping power is trash, especially for lower powered rounds like what typically SMG uses. And even armored opponents rarely are covered head to toe with armor, so it is not like i won't be able to deliver a hit without penetrating power....
Also, you have to consider the FACT that in real life, armor gets trashed and useless after a few hits, whether we are talking about medieval armor or bulletproof armor. Indestructible armor that keeps its properties after many hits only exists in vidya games. In real life, if a marksman can hit the same spot of a bulletproof vest 2-3 times, he can probably penetrate it easily and cause massive damage. Bulletproof vests (or glass, or anything really) aren't indestructible. After taking many hits, they crumble. You can't just stand there getting a full burst of full auto fire and believe that the anti-ballistic properties of the vest will remain unchanged for all 30 bullets of the clip...
The same applies to medieval armor. Plate after 2-3 HEAVY blunt hits with a spikey warhammer becomes useless, with the metal piercing your skin.... A few hits from a sharp pike can make your chainmail chains dislocate easily. Crosswbow bolts will make any armor swiss cheese. A nice two hunded sword will cut through leather armor in a few hits and slice it open....
I am sorry, but your vidya games are wrong, except Todd's Fallout 3 which is more accurate regarding armor than New Vegas. Damage threshold is a retarded concept in real life.
So indie RPGs at the same time:
- saturate the market, supposedly drowning other RPGs that are actually good;
- do not sell enough to be considered successful.
How can they saturate the market while still not selling enough? Please, explain it to me.
You understand that you are saying one thing and its opposite, right? I want to stress the fact that the point we are discussing here is that Kickstarter indie RPGs saturate the market, drowning in the trash other more worthy games (you said that). But you are also admitting that companies like Bethesda have very long development cycles and that they manage to develop a game every 4 years or so: Fallout 4 came out in 2015 and Fallout 76 in 2018, so we are still perfectly in time for the next big game. So, if Bethesda is perfectly in time with its development cycle, where's this indie-RPGs saturation effect you are talking about?
Also, Fallout 4 and Falout 76 may not be in the same genre, but the same game studio worked on both games. So, putting genres aside, if they were at least partially involved in the development cycle of Fallout 76, they certainly couldn't fully invest themselves in the next big single-player RPG.
Cool.. but what does this have to do with anything?
Please, stick to the original point: can you explain which Kickstarter indie games are saturating the marked and which better more valid games are drowning the trash thanks to that?
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Marketing does help, but let's say for example Mount and Blade, the original, did it have insane amounts of marketing? Did minecraft have insane amounts of marketing? Terraria? Player Uknown's Battlegrounds? No they didn't. Yet they exploded in popularity through word of mouth. Grim Dawn didn't have a marketing budget, did it?
You are clearly ignoring the HUNDRENDS of indie games that sold tens of millions of copies without a marketing budget. Some of those indies eventually found a publisher but that was AFTER their raging success, not before.
On the other hand, Fallout 76 had an insane marketing budget (on top of belonging to a multi-million sales franchise). They even created power armor helmets to sell and gift. See how that worked out....
Reality is, quality tends to sell. In the age of the internet, you don't need marketing when you can have word of mouth. Hell, even Sseth alone can bring sales with his Youtube videos to obscure indie games and oldies, just by doing comedy reviews once a month....
Wrong to very inaccurate on this paragraph. Yes blunt weaponry and warhammers were the main way to deal with heavy armor. But against spears (the most dominant battlefield weapons) and bladed weapons like Swords, Dagger and bladed pole weapons (particularily the latter were incredibly common aswell) they were close to invincible. The dominant tactic to defeat a knight on the battlefield is grapple him into the mud and attack weakpoints in the armor.
Crossbow bolts do fuck all against plate armor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMT6hjwY8NQ
Even light armors perform decently well against many missile based weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoz0eggQen8
Turns out armor was incredibly expensive but still used widely by knights because it was fucking amazing. Especially plate, a fully plated up Knight is the equivalent of a medieval battle tank. Without specific counter weaponry or advanced strategies you are fucked against that.
Here in the marshes of northern Germany there were really ingenious strategies against knights in the peasant wars, where they were defeated by use of the ditches and marshes that cover the land.
Agree in your rant against ammunition and more modern armor tho. Modern ballistics has outclassed armor development so hard that most modern armors dont stand a chance against any sort of ammunition long term.
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TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Oh boy, i often forget people can't connect the dots themselves and i just have to analyze every little part of my thought process to them, like they are toddlers...
1. The market gets saturated by the sheer number of games released. Yes, individually they don't reach massive numbers, but their sum is still a significant number. As i said, playerbase and critic/youtuber/etc resources are finite. You can only focus on so many games during a certain time period, whether that focus is money, time, content creation for a game etc. For example, if the RPG genre only had Skyrim on the market, then everyone would be playing it, everyone would be buying it, and everyone would create mods, videos, articles, strategy guides, etc etc, for it. If you add 100 Skyrims, then you add 100 games to buy, spend time playing, and spend time creating content and talking about. Since by adding 100 Skyrims, you don't multiply the playerbase resources by 100 at the same time, you are just diluting the market. People only have limited money and time, and even though most adults these days have more money than available time (and this leads to the huge backlog problem most adult gamers have these days)
Essentially, by flooding the RPG genre with cheaply made indies, you are limiting the potential market a more expensive AAA RPG could have. So unless you are Bethesda or CDPRoject or Bioware, you are really afraid of taking that risk. Hell, even Obsidian played it safe with the Outer Worlds for that very reason. If those cheap indies didn't exist, people would be more available to support AAA RPGs with their time and money, thus the risk would be lesser. See, even PoE2 flopped, because the market is so saturated right now. Even though it is massively improved compared to the original PoE.
2. My issue with the market of the last decade (2010-2020) is not with Bethesda. Bethesda is probably fine. My issue is with the competition. During the 90s and 00s Bethesda wasn't alone in creating quality AAA CRPGs. They were just one player among many. But now, only Bethesda and CDPROJECT make AAA CRPGs. Even Bioware stopped.
You might have no issue with this, but i have. I am not an indie loving hipster and i love my PC Hardware top of the line and my eye candy. I love seeing CRPG developers pushing the envelope of technology and exploiting stuff like VR to deliver us better CRPG experiences, more immersive. What you see as "incline" with the whole indy kickstarter shovelwhare trash, i see as backtracking and a waste of time. I played isometric crpgs 2 decades ago. I don't want to play them again. I don't play on a Pentium 150mhz with 32mb of ram anymore.
I sure hope Obsidian re-enters the game of AAA CRPGs now with Microsoft support. I hope Bill Gates spends some of his Mark of The Beast 666 quantum dot vaccine shekels on financing their Skyrim clone. THAT would be incline.
Cryomancer
Arcane
Who said that? Armor piercing just have greater penetration than the same caliber without being AP. On WW1, normal
7.92×57mm Mauser could't pierce earlier tanks armor BUT K-bullets, used on the same weapon could. On WW2, PTRD-1941 was useless vs certain tanks and extremely effective vs others. Depending on armor thickness. It could deal no damage in a tank frontal thick armor but damage on rear armor of the same tank which is less thick.
We are talking about fallout here. Where people can use power armor. Not just a tinny Kevlar vest. IMO anything which can't pierce at least a light armored vehicle should't deal any damage to power armor. So .308 AP should be the minimum caliber to pierce that armor. And i an not even sure if .308 AP would pierce the thickest parts.
Depends the armor and the hits and the impact. Not all "impact" is the same and not all "armor" is the same. You problem is that seems like you see as all armor and bullets as the same when is not.
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The unique game which i saw "where it hits" mattering is Dragon's Dogma. When the ranger hits the armored part, it deals no damage. When he hits the unarmored parts, it deals fully damage. And a fully charged shot in the weakspot of the enemy after he removed enemy armor is lethal.
And yes, being a ranger on Dragon's Dogma is epic. Best archery in any fantasy RPG by far.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Even the first video you posted disproves you. I said that crossbow bolts fill plate with holes. Guess what, that is what is shown in the video.... The breast plate got holes, and that is from a couple of bolts....
Keep in mind that this plate is top quality with modern steel techniques (if you think medieval steel was this good and shinny you know nothing about armor, dark age/medieval metalworking was shit). For the vast majority of the dark ages and medieval periods, when longbows and crossbows were relevant, steel was of inferior strength, and most plate armors were iron made and not steel made. That kind of steel breastplate shown in the video is 15th century onwards, and was mostly used by heavy cavarly. Sure, after the 15th century steel improved, that is why crossbows got replaced eventually by GUNS....
Even so, receiving a lot of hits will destroy even this kind of breastplate. Also the wearer will hurt, A LOT. and getting holes in your plate meant that someone with a piercing weapon could exploit them...
Sorry, i am not wrong, it is just that you people don't want to accept the fact that your "incline" spergy crpgs got it wrong.
Name these games. You have been talking about this giant wave of Kickstarter indie crap that is saturating the market and preventing good AAA games from shining (God, I can't believe this is an actual opinion from an actual human being), but you have yet to name a single example.
Fuck, you are good (or maybe I'm too weak). I AM triggered.
Cryomancer
Arcane
PoE 2 flopped due the pirate setting. And excessive Sawyerism/balance focus
But lets be real, AAA devs aren't taking risks. Quite the contrary. They only follow trends. See the MMO market which is far more expensive than SP market and EVERYONE IS COPYING WOW with almost no indie mmo.
He will not name a single one. I asked 3 times for a name.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Who said that? Armor piercing just have greater penetration than the same caliber without being AP. On WW1, normal
7.92×57mm Mauser could't pierce earlier tanks armor BUT K-bullets, used on the same weapon could. On WW2, PTRD-1941 was useless vs certain tanks and extremely effective vs others. Depending on armor thickness. It could deal no damage in a tank frontal thick armor but damage on rear armor of the same tank which is less thick.
We are talking about fallout here. Where people can use power armor. Not just a tinny Kevlar vest. IMO anything which can't pierce at least a light armored vehicle should't deal any damage to power armor. So .308 AP should be the minimum caliber to pierce that armor. And i an not even sure if .308 AP would pierce the thickest parts.
Depends the armor and the hits and the impact. Not all "impact" is the same and not all "armor" is the same. You problem is that seems like you see as all armor and bullets as the same when is not.
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The unique game which i saw "where it hits" mattering is Dragon's Dogma. When the ranger hits the armored part, it deals no damage. When he hits the unarmored parts, it deals fully damage. And a fully charged shot in the weakspot of the enemy after he removed enemy armor is lethal.
And yes, being a ranger on Dragon's Dogma is epic. Best archery in any fantasy RPG by far.
No, my dear sperg, the point eludes you due to autism. All this armor discussion began because you claimed that percentage based armor is wrong. This is unrealistic. Permanent Damage properties are unrealistic, with every hit the armor worsens. Also, damage threshold as a concept is stupid. Even hits that don't penetrate an armor can damage the wearer through the force of the hit. We are not discussing WWI tanks here, we are discussing wearable armor by human beings.
So, the aspect that certain armor values should eliminate damage altogether from certain weapons/ammo, is wrong.
Now, CRPGs are not armor damage simulators. They are not meant to serve all your autistic needs regarding damage simulation. That is why a flat percentage based armor system is used, to approximately give a realistic depiction of protection.
Communism. Atheism.
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