Troika and the Fallout rights - where did I read that?

[Slylandro]

Hello there Jinxed. Never saw you before but I can only assume that since this is the codex that you're giving me a friendly welcome.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Does Troika (or its members I guess) have the rights to Arcanum still? I know from interviews that they'd make a sequel if they had the money, which I'm hoping could happen if they get a new footing.

In the best traditions of the industry, Sierra owns the license.

 

[Slylandro]

Thanks for your help Vault Dweller. I am unfamiliar with the IP practices of the gaming industry, thanks again for sorting it out. I hope Troika's members will one day come together somehow to make Arcanum 2. It probably won't happen, but it's good to dream.

 

[Kalle]

I love this thread. So much hatred.

The only thing I love more than this thread is the fact that Troika won't be doing Fallout. They released three games, each one more flawed than the last. I'm sure the boys at Troika had creative vision in spades. It's just too bad they fucked up the execution every single time. Getting the Fallout license would not magically solve this. If you think so, you're living in fairy fantasy land.

 

[LlamaGod]

I love this thread. So much hatred.

The only thing I love more than this thread is the fact that Troika won't be doing Fallout. They released three games, each one more flawed than the last. I'm sure the boys at Troika had creative vision in spades. It's just too bad they fucked up the execution every single time. Getting the Fallout license would not magically solve this. If you think so, you're living in fairy fantasy land.

sounds like someones PC sucked too much to play Bloodlines

 

[Vault Dweller]

I love this thread. So much hatred.

The only thing I love more than this thread is the fact that Troika won't be doing Fallout. They released three games, each one more flawed than the last. I'm sure the boys at Troika had creative vision in spades. It's just too bad they fucked up the execution every single time. Getting the Fallout license would not magically solve this. If you think so, you're living in fairy fantasy land.

What took you so long? I expected some trolling on page 5, and this is page 8; you are way, way behind the schedule.

 

[Kalle]

What took you so long? I expected some trolling on page 5, and this is page 8; you are way, way behind the schedule.

A troll? Moi? And this claim is coming from a guy who thinks that Troika should get to make a new Fallout because it would be the ethical thing to do.

Here's a thought for you, if Troika had made better games then maybe they'd had the cash on hand to buy the rights and they wouldn't have to depend on other companies taking pity on them.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I still don't get why Beth even wanted the Fallout license. I mean, a million bucks or whatever they paid for the license of a cult game that never sold that much. Plus, they admittingly have no expertise in developing games like the traditional Fallouts(top down isometric, TB, etc)

I mean, fuck... i could understand if they were going for the Star Wars or D&D license. Just seems like a inefficient use of time and money.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Here's a thought for you, if Troika had made better games then maybe they'd had the cash on hand to buy the rights and they wouldn't have to depend on other companies taking pity on them.

Troika made great games. Arcanum was fabulous, in my not so humble opinion. TOEE was also great, it didn't have a story but fuck that; it had the best combat system ever. Bloodlines was mainstreamed but still managed to live up a bit until it turned into a full blown FPS.

Edit:

I still don't get why Beth even wanted the Fallout license. I mean, a million bucks or whatever they paid for the license of a cult game that never sold that much. Plus, they admittingly have no expertise in developing games like the traditional Fallouts(top down isometric, TB, etc)

That's why they're going to make it an FPS and promote it as "Oblivion with guns, mutants and whores". Instant success a'la Bethesda.

 

[Kalle]

Arcanum was Troika's best effort and it still had horrible balance issues, a godawful combat system, poor graphics and no coherent visual style beyond the interface.

Between Troika and Obsidian I'm starting to think that Black Isle studios really was something greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

This one grew fast.

Why not? Both are flawed, yet one's less flawed, at least in those areas that are most relevant for the game in question (dialogues, choices that matter, role-playing as we understand the term, etc). The less flawed one is a better choice, obviously, even without considering that whole "creators" angle.

The less flawed one is the better choice provide they managed to make it less flawed.

These are design decisions, not some game-specific features. These designs are what Bethesda believes will appeal to people the most. You should expect to find many familiar features in FO3.

Certainly, but at this point I'm not aware of combat being one of those many familiar features.

True, yet now we are back at what we started from: Troika could have done a better job.

Or a job we'd like better.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Here's a thought for you, if Troika had made better games then maybe they'd had the cash on hand to buy the rights and they wouldn't have to depend on other companies taking pity on them.

Better games? Like what? Diablo clones and shooters? That's a great idea!

Arcanum was Troika's best effort and it still had horrible balance issues, a godawful combat system, poor graphics and no coherent visual style beyond the interface.

And it's still one of the best RPGs out there. With all those flaws.

Between Troika and Obsidian I'm starting to think that Black Isle studios really was something greater than the sum of it's parts.

Yeah, Black Isle was the best. They should be remembered forever for so many original IPs they developed, and great engines they coded, and that IWD series, that was the best. Not as good as Torn though, but then again, nothing is as good as Torn.

 

[Whipporowill]

I'd say it's likely that Van Buren actually might have been what our best chance at a Fallout we'd recognize as Fallout. Say what you will (i e "nitpicking) about vechicles in post-apoc setting et c, but it sure was moving in the right direction from Fallut 2 - and it supposedly had TB bundled with RT, which I guess we'd be lucky to see in a Fallout from Troika. Not saying that Tim, Leon and Jason couldn't crack it - but rather that they'd be under the publishers command, and we know how that'd probably work out: Less chance of TB, more action et c. Then there's the Beth angle, where we'll have be satisfied if we see a game that does the setting right, and if we're lucky something reminiscent of the SPECIAL system. We're won't see TB combat and it's darn likely it'll be both first-person and single character.

As for the discussion on Troika - all their games had flaws, but they were the best rpgs published these last few years. And say what you will about Bloodlines, but it had the best damn acting in a game - ever.

 

[DarkSign]

I really wish that we could hear one of those publisher to developer conversations about why not to choose TB.

Just one.

 

[Kalle]

Here's a thought for you, if Troika had made better games then maybe they'd had the cash on hand to buy the rights and they wouldn't have to depend on other companies taking pity on them.

Better games? Like what? Diablo clones and shooters? That's a great idea!

How about a game as good as Fallout. I mean, you guys keep saying Troika would have been best at, nay, deserved to make a Fallout sequel. So how come none of their games can stand an honest comparison with Fallout?

Not as good as Torn though, but then again, nothing is as good as Torn.

Are you serious? Are you really saying a game that was cancelled while in production is the best ever?

 

[Drakron]

Fallout(s) had several faults, starting by the bugs that got worst with FO2.

Not Bethsoft does better, Daggerfall was a bug ridden POS in terms of engine and Morrowind was the same so Troika and Bethsoft were on the same level as coding and QA.

So that leaves style and Bethsoft cannot even put naked textures on their TES series why you think the kind of dark humor and adults themes that made Fallout are going to be put in by Bethsoft?

Troika would ... we seen in all their games Fallout elements, we cannot seen then in Bethsoft games, the closest thing they done was the Terminator series that not only is ancient history by now but also it was not even close to Fallout.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The less flawed one is the better choice provide they managed to make it less flawed.

That's what track records are for

Certainly, but at this point I'm not aware of combat being one of those many familiar features.

Why not? Beth is trying to make games more friendlier for casual gamers, so "kinetic" combat is the way to go. They appeal to the casual crowd with "if you visually hit it - you done hit it!", and they try to ride the hardcore train with "damage is stat-based". That's not a feature, that's philosophy. It's very, very likely that the same philosophy and design principle will make it into FO3. To do anything else would require a different way of thinking and beliefs in different concepts, which Beth doesn't have. Can you imagine all the casual folks going "OMG! I shot him in the face but missed! WTF?!" No, aint gonna happen.

Or a job we'd like better.

Well, these things are subjective. What's great job for us is something awful for the TES crowd. I speak as a Fallout fan, and with Bethesda in control I just don't see a happy ending to this tale.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How about a game as good as Fallout. I mean, you guys keep saying Troika would have been best at, nay, deserved to make a Fallout sequel. So how come none of their games can stand an honest comparison with Fallout?

Not the point. The point is that Troika's games, as flawed as they were, are much better than most if not all RPGs released in the last 5 years if not more. Nobody claimed that they are perfect.

Are you serious? Are you really saying a game that was cancelled while in production is the best ever?

Kalle failed his sarcasm detection roll. Same goes for "BIS' original IPs and engines".

 

[Jinxed]

Why is it that people fail to understand that not every good game sells well?


But I must say, among being half done (ToEE) and 3/4 done (vamp) bugs in Troika games hurt them a lot, especially ToEE and Vampire. ToEE runs poorly on mega top shelf systems, same for vamp. Whatever the reasons for those may be specifically, they won't change the fact that those games were poorly done code wise and that hurt everyone.

 

[Lumpy]

I wonder why Bethesda doesn't make Van Buren? Was the code lost? Do they not have the rights for it? Or do they simply not want to?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I wonder why Bethesda doesn't make Van Buren? Was the code lost? Do they not have the rights for it? Or do they simply not want to?

They didn't want to.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Simply don't want to because "it's not what they do well"

 

[Whipporowill]

I wonder why Bethesda doesn't make Van Buren? Was the code lost? Do they not have the rights for it? Or do they simply not want to?

I'd say it's pretty clear that Beth wants to make their "own game", and that could be why former BIS devs didn't join up, if the rumour about Beth offering them being true. It'd also make sense to NOT work with the Troika devs, as they'd be pretty set in their ways as to what Fallout entailed. I also think that all art for Fo3 and work on the MYSTARY engine is still in the hands of Hervé.

 

[Lumpy]

I wonder why Bethesda doesn't make Van Buren? Was the code lost? Do they not have the rights for it? Or do they simply not want to?

I'd say it's pretty clear that Beth wants to make their "own game", and that could be why former BIS devs didn't join up, if the rumour about Beth offering them being true. It'd also make sense to NOT work with the Troika devs, as they'd be pretty set in their ways as to what Fallout entailed. I also think that all art for Fo3 and work on the MYSTARY engine is still in the hands of Hervé.

But they could have finished it, if they wanted to, right?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

That's what track records are for

A track record which hasn't been quite achieved ever since Fallout. As good as they may have been, wholly or partially, Troika's games were never fully capable of presenting something like Fallout again.

Why not? Beth is trying to make games more friendlier for casual gamers, so "kinetic" combat is the way to go. They appeal to the casual crowd with "if you visually hit it - you done hit it!", and they try to ride the hardcore train with "damage is stat-based". That's not a feature, that's philosophy. It's very, very likely that the same philosophy and design principle will make it into FO3. To do anything else would require a different way of thinking and beliefs in different concepts, which Beth doesn't have. Can you imagine all the casual folks going "OMG! I shot him in the face but missed! WTF?!" No, aint gonna happen.

Sure, but a developer can change the perspective of casual gamers. Most of the things we dislike in CRPGs and which are meant to appeal to casual gamers generally were placed there by developers and publishers willing to risk something. It's their design principle, but it can change. In baby steps, of course

Well, these things are subjective. What's great job for us is something awful for the TES crowd. I speak as a Fallout fan, and with Bethesda in control I just don't see a happy ending to this tale.

I also have my reservations, no doubt.


EDIT: Woot! Page 9!