Company News Troika Closes Its Doors

[Naked_Lunch]

Killzig was right after all :D

But alas, this is not a time for smilies. RIP Troika

 

[Sammael]

If this is true, it's sad - not because the company is gone, but because there are some talented jobless people out there right now. But I'm sure that Troika devs will have no problem finding jobs in other games companies.

As for the demise, well... their own fault. Three games, three screwups (two with major licenses). Many companies don't even get that far, and Troika had pretty much everyone's sympathies and support. They hyped their games, but failed to deliver.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

This means that enemy encounters will get HARDER as you level up. It means that you won't be able to beat everyone down just because you've got a 75 blade skill and 100 strength. The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress. From your comment, it seems you've misinterpreted the article to mean just the opposite.

Oh boy! A game where a mole rat will always be a challenge!

 

[Sheriff05]

That sucks. I was reading the Oblivion article in PC Gamer (same old shit, nothing to report), and it sez that encounters will be scaled to your level. What the fuck happened to challenges in games? Oh fucking well....

This means that enemy encounters will get HARDER as you level up. It means that you won't be able to beat everyone down just because you've got a 75 blade skill and 100 strength. The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress. From your comment, it seems you've misinterpreted the article to mean just the opposite.

NO, what I think VD is refering too and I what I also believe is that automatically scaling encounters to your level is BULLSHIT, because whether you are level one or level fifty The encounter is still the SAME DAMN THING, you just have different numbers on a stat page. Encounters need to be designed as SET challenge not a fucking scaled challenge That way you may very easily NOT be able to beat a said challenge a particular point without being "X" Level or competing quest "Y" or "Z" or using a different stategy it's all about OPTIONS, fucking scaled challenges don't present options they are for robots. IF every challenge is automatically scaled to your skill level, it's not really a challenge. Even if you skew ratio difficulties to present a certain level of difficultly it still always THE SAME THING. Specifically designed encounters that take your skill level out of the mix are what's key in a non-linear type game. That's where the fun and challenge is. Haven't you guys figured that out by now?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm writing my review/impressions of KOTOR 2,

Don't bother. This one isn't yours.

I'm doing that because I like talking about games. If the official spot is taken, I'll post that as an independent opinion like my Bloodlines impressions.

 

[Vault Dweller]

NO, what I think VD is refering too and I what I also believe is that automatically scaling encounters to your level is BULLSHIT

Exactly.

 

[Ellester]

This means that enemy encounters will get HARDER as you level up. It means that you won't be able to beat everyone down just because you've got a 75 blade skill and 100 strength. The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress. From your comment, it seems you've misinterpreted the article to mean just the opposite.

Actually I’ll kiss butt with the developer and say that it should have been obvious. We’ve all played games that scale to your level. You walk in a room at level 1 you get a kobold, and at level 4 you get an ogre, etc…

All I have to say is I hope it’s true, getting cliff racers like crazy in Morrowind stunk. Second off I hope you do make your scaling system challenging. As we all know Morrowind wasn’t challenging after you advanced to a certain level. Hopefully you guys fix this in Oblivion.

Oh, and yea it sucks Troika is going down, whether that post is true or not. As I did like their games, although I have not tried Bloodlines yet. Another crpg developer folding sucks, whether they were worthy or not is not the argument. But Troika is the only one to blame they had three games and we not able to capitalize on the chances they were given. You really can’t point fingers at the producers anymore; you gotta fess up and admit it was Troika’s fault for all three of their buggy games.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

This means that enemy encounters will get HARDER as you level up. It means that you won't be able to beat everyone down just because you've got a 75 blade skill and 100 strength. The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress. From your comment, it seems you've misinterpreted the article to mean just the opposite.

Oh boy! A game where a mole rat will always be a challenge!

Hey, those mole rats can inflict a wicket scratch!

Actually what it'd do is replace the low-level mole rat with tougher creature types, be they mole rats or something different, depending on circumstances. It's a very flexible system that expands on the concept as used in Morrowind. And it's also flexible enough not to be used in all cases. If you want a leveled encounter, you drop in a leveled creature. If not, you just drop in a "normal" creature.

Anyway that's OT. Sorry to derail.

 

[Volourn]

"I'm doing that because I like talking about games. If the official spot is taken, I'll post that as an independent opinion like my Bloodlines impressions."

Don't lip off at your boss.


"Actually what it'd do is replace the low-level mole rat with tougher creature types, be they mole rats or something different, depending on circumstances. It's a very flexible system that expands on the concept as used in Morrowind. And it's also flexible enough not to be used in all cases. If you want a leveled encounter, you drop in a leveled creature. If not, you just drop in a "normal" creature."

WOW! Don't say that! They'll get even more mad at you. You'd be "stealing" stuff from the hated NWN. <>

 

[Vault Dweller]

This means that enemy encounters will get HARDER as you level up. ... From your comment, it seems you've misinterpreted the article to mean just the opposite.

I didn't, but thanks for clarifying that anyway. I don't want a game world to self-adjust for my character, I prefer the other way around.

The idea being to keep the game challenging as you progress

That's what combat systems are for.

 

[Ellester]

NO, what I think VD is refering too and I what I also believe is that automatically scaling encounters to your level is BULLSHIT, because whether you are level one or level fifty The encounter is still the SAME DAMN THING, you just have different numbers on a stat page. Encounters need to be designed as SET challenge not a fucking scaled challenge That way you may very easily NOT be able to beat a said challenge a particular point without being "X" Level or competing quest "Y" or "Z" or using a different stategy it's all about OPTIONS, fucking scaled challenges don't present options they are for robots. IF every challenge is automatically scaled to your skill level, it's not really a challenge. Even if you skew ratio difficulties to present a certain level of difficultly it still always THE SAME THING. Specifically designed encounters that take your skill level out of the mix are what's key in a non-linear type game. That's where the fun and challenge is. Haven't you guys figured that out by now?

Couldn’t disagree more. Playing Wizardry 8 right now I would be pretty pissed off If I had to encounter the same monster in the Swamp at level 8 as I did at level 20. Also, if I was encountering mosquitoes at level 8 and at level 20, I would find that pretty damn dull. I’ll take the Nightmares and Geomancers at level 20, thank you very much over mosquitoes.

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice. Why should a game tell me I can’t enter this area or make this choice because my level is too low. Set encounters are great for games like IWD where you go from one screen straight to the next. Set encounters in a free form wandering game suck.

Now I’ll give you certain key NPC’s or plot monsters. You shouldn’t be able to kill important boss encounters that are reserved for the end of the game at level 5. But, then again in scaled games this type of scaling usually isn’t implemented for these guys anyway.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

so basically everything progresses with what lvl you are? So i can travel to hella far away places and pwn them because they are easy?

 

[bryce777]

For crying out loud. What good game developers have we left now? A sad day for gaming.

That is what I am thinking.

As for RPGs, I am COMPLETELY drawing a blank. The closest I can think of is irrational software.

I dont consider freedom force a full RPG, but it is still a very good game.

 

[Elwro]

So you mean that if I sneak my way to some Big Bad Guys while being low-level, they will actually be Little Weak Guys?

Many of you might not know this, but Morrowind does scale the difficulty of random encounters. You won't get cliff racers until you advance to a set level of experience. The problem is that you get the most difficult opponents very early, like level 15 or sth and then it's all the same until you get bored.

 

[bryce777]

NO, what I think VD is refering too and I what I also believe is that automatically scaling encounters to your level is BULLSHIT, because whether you are level one or level fifty The encounter is still the SAME DAMN THING, you just have different numbers on a stat page. Encounters need to be designed as SET challenge not a fucking scaled challenge That way you may very easily NOT be able to beat a said challenge a particular point without being "X" Level or competing quest "Y" or "Z" or using a different stategy it's all about OPTIONS, fucking scaled challenges don't present options they are for robots. IF every challenge is automatically scaled to your skill level, it's not really a challenge. Even if you skew ratio difficulties to present a certain level of difficultly it still always THE SAME THING. Specifically designed encounters that take your skill level out of the mix are what's key in a non-linear type game. That's where the fun and challenge is. Haven't you guys figured that out by now?

Couldn’t disagree more. Playing Wizardry 8 right now I would be pretty pissed off If I had to encounter the same monster in the Swamp at level 8 as I did at level 20. Also, if I was encountering mosquitoes at level 8 and at level 20, I would find that pretty damn dull. I’ll take the Nightmares and Geomancers at level 20, thank you very much over mosquitoes.

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice. Why should a game tell me I can’t enter this area or make this choice because my level is too low. Set encounters are great for games like IWD where you go from one screen straight to the next. Set encounters in a free form wandering game suck.

Now I’ll give you certain key NPC’s or plot monsters. You shouldn’t be able to kill important boss encounters that are reserved for the end of the game at level 5. But, then again in scaled games this type of scaling usually isn’t implemented for these guys anyway.

The problem with scaling by levels is that it doesn't allow people to play at their own level.

To progress the game, combat gets MUCH harder in the wizardry series. Overall the combat difficulty is dramatically more difficult than bethesdalike games. The random encounters there are mostly sort of senseless, and never challenging.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

So you mean that if I sneak my way to some Big Bad Guys while being low-level, they will actually be Little Weak Guys?

Not if the Big Bad Guys were set up to be Big Bad Guys. Leveled enemies don't have to start at level 1 -- they could start at level 30 and go up from there, for example.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Couldn’t disagree more. Playing Wizardry 8 right now I would be pretty pissed off If I had to encounter the same monster in the Swamp at level 8 as I did at level 20.

Yeah, the swamp's management has noticed that you look tougher now and your sword shines brighter, and seeing how you were one of the best customers and all, they've decided to import some deadlier flora and fauna for your amusement.

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice.

That depends on game design. There are plenty of games that let you bite more then you can chew. Take The Boil area in Tarant. You were free to go there at any time, but it was very tough, and that fact was clear to you.

 

[Ellester]

The problem with scaling by levels is that it doesn't allow people to play at their own level.

To progress the game, combat gets MUCH harder in the wizardry series. Overall the combat difficulty is dramatically more difficult than bethesdalike games. The random encounters there are mostly sort of senseless, and never challenging.

Yea, Wizardry8 scaling system was a bitch, especially if you played at expert level. It was challenging at most every level until you maxed out in Rapax Rift. Anyways you are right people abuse the system and hold back from leveling because if they enter a certain area at too high a level, then it’s too hard for them, so they hold back on leveling to balance the scaling system. Hence they don’t play the game as they want. I could see this in an opposite scenario if the scaling system sucked, like Morrowind.

@pooperscooper if you travel to hella far away places you will no longer be at a low level. So pwning a place far away isn’t unrealistic. The time it takes you to travel to those far away areas will increase your experience and leveling. So by the time you get to that said far away area, you are a badass by that time. In fact there’s not going to be anything in the immediate vicinity of your starting point within a game to abuse scaling. You will be too far away from important NPC’s and plot characters, by the time you get to them then your level will be respective of said encounter.

 

[Sheriff05]

Couldn’t disagree more. Playing Wizardry 8 right now I would be pretty pissed off If I had to encounter the same monster in the Swamp at level 8 as I did at level 20.

Your overlooking that in scaled encounters you do get the same monster only when your level 8, it's level 8 or when you level 20 it's level 20. it might look different but its still the same monster.

Wouldn't you find it odd that one trip through your swamp the swamp had "X" number denizens and you killed them all but on a later return trip to the swamp suddenly new creatures have moved who are suddenly your "level" how about the concept of "X" people are in the swamp and when they are dead they are dead? Any new predators that come would be random, maybe a tough group maybe an easy group that flees.

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice. Why should a game tell me I can’t enter this area or make this choice because my level is too low. Set encounters are great for games like IWD where you go from one screen straight to the next. Set encounters in a free form wandering game suck.

Huh?, I am not saying that. I am saying that if an encounter is too hard at certain level it's nice if you have options to beat it at lower level. Maybe the quest is to get help to fight "X" creature. I'm not saying make it linear. I'm saying don't necessarily make it clear you really need to just come back later in the game, give them options. scaled encounters aren't about options they are about repitition and monotony.

 

[space captain]

oh shit - i think im going to cry

this is so wack, Troika never got to make any "masterpeices" - and I KNOW they had it in them

fuck!!(to power of infinity)

 

[AlanC9]

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice. Why should a game tell me I can’t enter this area or make this choice because my level is too low. Set encounters are great for games like IWD where you go from one screen straight to the next. Set encounters in a free form wandering game suck.

It simply doesn't follow that unscaled encounters require the builders to restrict access to areas. You could just let people die if they try to take on stuff they can't handle, like in BG1 or Fallout.

If anything, it's scaled encounters that take away freedom of choice. You're free to make choices because your choices don't matter.

 

[Ellester]

Your overlooking that in scaled encounters you do get the same monster only when your level 8, it's level 8 or when you level 20 it's level 20. it might look different but its still the same monster.

True, I’ll give you that. Wizardry did reuse certain models and just named them different creatures. In fact I’ll admit they did it a lot, which was pathetic. But they also gave different monsters altogether. Also they had a pretty good mix on monsters (and models) all around. So it wasn’t such a nuisance.

Btw, Bethseda guy. Morrowind had waaaaay to little in variety of monsters. Why don’t you jump up the monsters to about 150 different kinds in Oblivion instead of the 5 differnet monsters in Morrowind. Or at least it felt like there were only 5 monsters in Morrowind.

Wouldn't you find it odd that one trip through your swamp the swamp had "X" number denizens and you killed them all but on a later return trip to the swamp suddenly new creatures have moved who are suddenly your "level" how about the concept of "X" people are in the swamp and when they are dead they are dead? Any new predators that come would be random, maybe a tough group maybe an easy group that flees.

Well it’s a trade-off. Do you want realism or do you want entertainment. It’s really a matter of preference. Sure I’ll give you it’s unrealistic that the same area has suddenly becomes twice as tough since the last time I visited. But, this gives reasons to revisit areas, if I want to go back into the swamp then I want some combat that takes some tactics. Hence, I’ll take the entertainment over the realism factor.

Huh?, I am not saying that. I am saying that if an encounter is too hard at certain level it's nice if you have options to beat it at lower level. Maybe the quest is to get help to fight "X" creature. I'm not saying make it linear. I'm saying don't necessarily make it clear you really need to just come back later in the game, give them options. scaled encounters aren't about options they are about repitition and monotony.

Fair enough on your first point. Second point it really matters who designs it. I liked the Wizardry scaling system, I thought the scaling system in Morrowind sucked. Repetition and monotony has to do with the developer not the system.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Not if the Big Bad Guys were set up to be Big Bad Guys. Leveled enemies don't have to start at level 1 -- they could start at level 30 and go up from there, for example.

I don't know. There's something to be said for going back to a location once you've levelled up quite a bit more than the typical level where the combat would be acceptably difficult, and then swatting everyone there like flies.

Having monsters and other things fit the level of the character in all places to make things more challenging only makes the game world generic and, to put it bluntly, idiotic. Imagine something like Junktown if they'd done that. You're the big, bad Vault Dweller, a guy who's run all over lower California doing things, killing things.. Things the guards of Junktown, who might be tough in their area of the world have never done. It's only right that in terms of the game world that you'd be much more saavy in a number of areas compared to them and they couldn't hope to oppose you.

There are better ways of handling situations where the player is much greater level than the people of a location where he's at than just have the game level them up to make it challenging.

Anyway that's OT. Sorry to derail.

Don't be. This subject is at least interesting.

 

[bryce777]

Also if I am not allowed to receive a said quest or enter a certain area until my level is at a certain level, then that takes away from the freedom of choice. Why should a game tell me I can’t enter this area or make this choice because my level is too low. Set encounters are great for games like IWD where you go from one screen straight to the next. Set encounters in a free form wandering game suck.

It simply doesn't follow that unscaled encounters require the builders to restrict access to areas. You could just let people die if they try to take on stuff they can't handle, like in BG1 or Fallout.

If anything, it's scaled encounters that take away freedom of choice. You're free to make choices because your choices don't matter.

The random encounters scaling is not terrible I guess. In daggerfall it is fine with me.

What kills me are games like lionheart.

You fight the same people, but this time he has 200 hitpoints instead of 50.

You can never get ahead in that damn game, and it gets to where every combat is tedious.

At least in the wizardry series if you are getting stomped, you can do something like multiclass and then grab a few more levels, then try the new area.

 

[bryce777]

Whenever you got into a new area, you also were practically overrun at first, til you gained more exp and items, and sometimes better tactics.

I really liked that.