Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Roguey]

SRR is p. well received here though.

Quite a few really don't like it on account of it being tuned for bad players, in addition to HBS's refusal to allow non-boss enemies to attack more than once per turn, even in their high level bonus campaign (so you get massive mobs instead).

 

[Infinitron]

90% of these games is combat

That's not true.

Actually, it's interesting that one of the main criticisms of Shadowrun: Hong Kong is that it doesn't have enough combat. This criticism is often made by the same people who acknowledge that Shadowrun's combat is generally pretty simple/easy, which goes to show you that there's more to things than just being "good" - pacing matters.

 

[Excidium II]

SRHK suffered from bad pacing but also bad encounter design. There's one scenario in the endgame where you have to fend off enemies that keep coming from the same doorway, so you can just stack aoe and overwatch on the same spot. It's like nobody playtested it.

It has one cool encounter though, that can become into a 3-way free for all with your team right in the middle.

Something perplexing to me. 90% of these games is combat, which is shallow, takes too long for its own good and is very easy. Story is alright in Dragonfall, but that's about it.
I mean, what do these games have that pleases the Codex so much, besides being turn-based?

The combat is simplistic (and a far cry from the pnp) but all the basic elements are there to make fun scenarios like the classic "protect the decker". And the setting is cool even though HBS take on it could be better.

SRR is p. well received here though.

Quite a few really don't like it on account of it being tuned for bad players, in addition to HBS's refusal to allow non-boss enemies to attack more than once per turn, even in their high level bonus campaign (so you get massive mobs instead).

Yeah, it's annoying.

 

[Roguey]

I think it's pretty funny how even though Pillars and all the Shadowruns are tuned for bad players, you have people like Darth Roxor and Crooked Bee who like one well enough and really hate the other. I'm guessing it's some sort of writing/setting/systems preference that makes the difference.

 

[Excidium II]

I think it's pretty funny how even though Pillars and all the Shadowruns are tuned for bad players, you have people like Darth Roxor and Crooked Bee who like one well enough and really hate the other. I'm guessing it's some sort of writing/setting/systems preference that makes the difference.

TB is more involved, makes it comfier to play even if it's easy. Easy RTWP degenerates into select all + rightclick and watch.

 

[Roguey]

TB is more involved, makes it comfier to play even if it's easy. Easy RTWP degenerates into select all + rightclick and watch.

There are a lotta goons who would vastly prefer to select-all-attack than be forced to go through rote turn based actions all the time.

 

[Excidium II]

KKKodexers are a different breed.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I wonder what Tim is doing...

hopefully pitch for their new turn based kickstarter in which he is the lead on gameplay.

Does obsidian have it in them to design a good tb combat system?

All their rpgs have been real time, and mediocre real time at that.

Yeah forgot about that... such a fine example of amazing TB combat. My bad.

 

[Fairfax]

90% of these games is combat

That's not true.

Actually, it's interesting that one of the main criticisms of Shadowrun: Hong Kong is that it doesn't have enough combat. This criticism is often made by the same people who acknowledge that Shadowrun's combat is generally pretty simple/easy, which goes to show you that there's more to things than just being "good" - pacing matters.

Might be the case, but I don't know, I abandoned HK after a few hours.

The combat is simplistic (and a far cry from the pnp) but all the basic elements are there to make fun scenarios like the classic "protect the decker". And the setting is cool even though HBS take on it could be better.

Yes, the setting is good, it's probably why people give it a pass on so many things.

I think it's pretty funny how even though Pillars and all the Shadowruns are tuned for bad players, you have people like Darth Roxor and Crooked Bee who like one well enough and really hate the other. I'm guessing it's some sort of writing/setting/systems preference that makes the difference.

TB is more involved, makes it comfier to play even if it's easy. Easy RTWP degenerates into select all + rightclick and watch.

However, challenging RTwP means you have a lot on your plate at all times, so you can't do that.
The difference between easy TB and easy RTwP is that TB will waste a lot more of your time, which makes it pretty stupid. HBS Shadowruns are good examples. How long would these games take if they had RTWP? Half of less, I'd say, and no challenge or complexity would've been lost in the process.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah forgot about that... such a fine example of amazing TB combat. My bad.

Truth Stick really pleased its audience. Over 1.4 million players on Steam and half of them actually completed it.

 

[Fairfax]

Yeah forgot about that... such a fine example of amazing TB combat. My bad.

Truth Stick really pleased its audience. Over 1.4 million players on Steam and half of them actually completed it.

The average of 14 hours to finish it didn't hurt.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Yeah forgot about that... such a fine example of amazing TB combat. My bad.

Truth Stick really pleased its audience. Over 1.4 million players on Steam and half of them actually completed it.

Because its a CYOA south park episode, not because it was:

1. An RPG
2. An Obsidian RPG
3. An Obsidian RPG with TB combat

 

[Excidium II]

However, challenging RTwP means you have a lot on your plate at all times, so you can't do that.

Challenging TB puts even more on your plate since you have to commit much more with each order.

The difference between easy TB and easy RTwP is that TB will waste a lot more of your time, which makes it pretty stupid.

It does waste more time, but it's also always going to be more involved than RTWP because of the point above. Even on an easy TB battle a wrong order can have catastrophic results since you can't fix positioning mistakes in a microsecond like in RTWP.

 

[Roguey]

Because its a CYOA south park episode, not because it was:

1. An RPG
2. An Obsidian RPG
3. An Obsidian RPG with TB combat

The gameplay didn't annoy the majority of them into quitting early, that's a success.

 

[Fairfax]

However, challenging RTwP means you have a lot on your plate at all times, so you can't do that.

Challenging TB puts even more on your plate since you have to commit much more with each order.

The difference between easy TB and easy RTwP is that TB will waste a lot more of your time, which makes it pretty stupid.

It does waste more time, but it's also always going to be more involved than RTWP because of the point above. Even on an easy TB battle a wrong order can have catastrophic results since you can't fix positioning mistakes in a microsecond like in RTWP.

But it's one step a time, with consequences spread out over multiple turns. With RTwP it's all simultaneous, and you get results right away. You can fix positioning and pay the price for bad positioning in both, the difference is just how long it takes.

If done right, I don't believe one is inherently more challenging than the other. Still, if you take hypothetically perfect TB and RTwP combat systems, the RTwP one will always take less of your time and be more intense. Easy TB will always be more accessible, however, which is why it would never be fully replaced even if outstanding RTwP systems dominated the genre.

In short: if one system can be just as challenging with encounters taking half as long, why pick the other?

 

[Perkel]

and Tim said that when he got into that project it was real time and he changed it for TB and in the end SP got good reviews and sold a lot.

 

[Grimlorn]

It's not his baby because the falling out they had was probably over the game and whatever they wanted him to change that he didn't has already been changed. The game will probably be ruined.

That doesn't make much sense - he was still at Obsidian when he said that and he'd clearly stopped working on the game a while before that.

Again, basic premise, basic overall storyline. For example, even if Eric Fenstermaker had left PoE's development eight months after it began, it would still have the basic story he decided on. It would be too late to change it. The details would be different, but not the overall thrust.

I didn't check the link you quoted for the time. Assumed it was recent. I just saw this tweet so started assuming that the fallout with Obsidian was over Tyranny changes being forced on him and his comment about being tired of his work getting torn down was because of something to do with this.

 

[Infinitron]

and Tim said that when he got into that project it was real time and he changed it for TB and in the end SP got good reviews and sold a lot.

Source? I'm pretty sure it was always going to be a JRPG pastiche and that means turn-based. It wouldn't have been Tim Cain's call to make.

 

[Roguey]

Source? I'm pretty sure it was always going to be a JRPG pastiche and that means turn-based. It wouldn't have been Tim Cain's call to make.

Actually I do recall that it was originally rtwp but it sucked so they changed to Paper Mario. I think it might have been in one of the GameInformer videos???

 

[Perkel]

and Tim said that when he got into that project it was real time and he changed it for TB and in the end SP got good reviews and sold a lot.

Source? I'm pretty sure it was always going to be a JRPG pastiche and that means turn-based. It wouldn't have been Tim Cain's call to make.

Actually I do recall that it was originally rtwp but it sucked so they changed to Paper Mario. I think it might have been in one of the GameInformer videos???

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9818

Tim: I love turn-based games. This actually goes back to something Chris was saying, when I worked on South Park… right when I arrived there it was a real-time game and one of the things I was asked was to make it turn-based. It’s easy to turn real-time systems into turn-based ones, so I’m just throwing that out there [as he looks towards the other team members].

Fucking loosers with their short memory for amazing interview done by prestigious mindx2

 

[Roguey]

Fucking loosers with their short memory for amazing interview done by prestigious mindx2

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...rview-at-aggrogamer.81498/page-2#post-2559633 is much earlier than that.

 

[Infinitron]

Ah, so it was. But I thought you meant that he'd gotten on the project and decided to change it himself.

 

[Roguey]

There's one scenario in the endgame where you have to fend off enemies that keep coming from the same doorway, so you can just stack aoe and overwatch on the same spot. It's like nobody playtested it.

Coming back to this, if you're referring to Prosperity Tower, they did that on purpose, because while it was possible to complete the prior section without engaging in any combat, it was also possible to fight your way through the entire thing and enter the next section with little health/few resources. On the commentary track for that level someone said that was the case for him. Designed by bad players for bad players.

 

[Excidium II]

ffs.

 

[LESS T_T]

Previews are coming out:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-03-22-our-first-look-at-obsidians-next-rpg-tyranny
http://www.pcgamesn.com/tyranny/tyranny-new-obsidian-game
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3046...ad-guy-rpg-is-made-to-play-over-and-over.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/10684/Tyranny-Taking-the-Side-of-Evil.html
http://www.pcgamer.com/obsidians-tyranny-explores-what-happens-after-the-bad-guys-win/

more:
http://www.zam.com/article/235/obsidian-has-a-new-grimdark-fantasy-game-tyranny
http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/screw-heroes-obsidians-new-rpg-tyranny-is-all-about-villians
http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2363-tyranny-rpg-gameplay-preview-at-gdc