Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips

[Shadenuat]

For my 8th skill should I go for persuasion or biology? How much content does persuasion unlock

It has more applicability than Intimidate but to be honest, majority of time you're doing killing and looting in UR even with Persuade/Intimidate.
Still I'd probably take that instead of Biology, I think that crafting skill really got short end of the stick compared to every single other one. It's also dull, requires many ingredients and using a fishing rod. By the midgame you swim in medicaments. I did without regenerative vest too, although some points might have use for using natural components in Tailoring.
Maybe if psi didn't regenerate, like nanites in Deus Ex, it would be a must skill.
INT 4 is not a big deal if you put every point into it later. By level 12 you'll have 7 INT and that's the time when most of crafting begins to happen (you get access to multiple cities and lots of money). You just have to plan accordingly.
If you want grenades then yes, having Chemistry at 70 would be useful, as well as an extra point of dex and Grenadier feat (but that needs 6 DEX).
Perception is nice but you can take 1-2 points from it and start at ~8, level it up later. What's more important is having good gun and night vision device to counter darkness penalty.
Also, even for heavy armor I'd take 6-7 AGI to get Sprint/Hit&Run since it's important to have good mobility to get close and personal for highest chance to hit with Burst.

I'd go with something like: STR 8, DEX 4, AGI 6, CON 7, PER 8, WL 3, INT 4. INT 4 > 6-7, a point in AGI maybe if you want perk and rest PER.
You could also switch AGI for DEX and get it to 7 for Quick Tinkering to completely protect yourself from annoying melees and wear tabi boots.

Thinking about it, I wonder why people actually want using AR and heavy armor, since it seems to me it's such a limited build compared to just wearing kevlar coat and using good shield, and having high DEX, high AGI instead and ability to kite anything and use shitton of grenades and traps like I did on my first playthrough (7 points in both would give you Grenadier, Quick Tinkering & Sprint and Hit&Run). It's not like heavy armor would protect you from psionic bombardment.

 

[veevoir]

Thinking about it, I wonder why people actually want using AR and heavy armor, since it seems to me it's such a limited build compared to just wearing kevlar coat and using good shield, and having high DEX, high AGI instead and ability to kite anything and use shitton of grenades and traps like I did on my first playthrough. It's not like heavy armor would protect you from psionic bombardment.

beats me. Tried the AR build, but after some time being a turret in combat began to be tiresome. Also - no stealth.

Stealthy fast kiting builds are much more fun, but of course YMMV. And on topic of that - even con 3 builds don't really get mileage from dodge/evasion - if combat lasts longer than your shield you're doing something wrong.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So underrail systems are fun to play with, though the crafting procs my OCD...
I finally landed up with a psionic/melee hybrid that pulverizes shit once it gets its thing going after 100+ hours of playing.

Starting Stats:
3 Str/10 Dex/ 7 Agi/ 3 Con/ 3 Per/ 8 Wil/ 6 Int
At levelups:
+2 Will (by level 14 for Locus of Control); +4 Dex

SkillsHighest to lowest priority)
Melee/Psychokinesis/Thought Control - MAX at every level
Mechanics/ electronics / Tailoring
Hacking/Throwing
Lockpicking/Chemistry/biology
Oh also 40 Dodge is required by Fancy Footwork so squeeze that in too.

Feats (in no particular order):
Nimble, Sprint, Recklessness, Lightning Punch, Cheap Shot, Expose Weaknes, Premediation, Combo, Locus of Control, Critical Power, grenadier, Force User , Fancy Footwork, Escape Artist.

Equipment:
Weapon: Reinforced Leather Gloves reinforced
Weapon 2: Renforced Electric Leather Gloves
Armor (Body): PSI Carparace Tactical vest
Armor (Head): Motion Tracking Night Vision Googles / PSI headbands
Belt: Utility belt/Doctor's Belt
Boots: Tabi Boots (of Infused Cave Hopper Leather for the reduced Sprint Cooldown)
Shield: An Efficient Shield.

Utilities: Taser / EMP Grenade / Flashbang + whatever

I like playing unarmed/with gloves so this is my personal Hand to hand wrecker. This is the non-stealth build I personally enjoyed playing the most.

Playstyle is keep shield on and use electrokinesis/Force Punch/ Taser / Flashbang /Frighten/ mental breakdown for CC. Enemies with shield/ robots are softened nicely with a EMP grenade.

Then move/sprint to a scrub and use fists to punch them into meat paste with Force Emission on. If it has high mechanical damage threshsold, use Expose Weakness and switch to electrified gloves before gibbing them. 14 Dex + lightning Punches + Tabi Boots = 4 AP punch with leather gloves. That is a max of 12 punches per turn. 17 punches with an adrenaline shot.

Lightning Punches only works with less than 25% encumbrance. hence Nimble is essential for the PSI carparace Armor

If you need to block line of sight so as not to get mobbed/ use psi packs/ refresh cooldowns use Force Field! with Force user it lasts 4 turns enough to get ready for a second round. You could change Force user with another perk like Three pointer for grenade crits, which si also an excellent option with your high dex, but Telekinetic Punch damage is halved and so is force field duration.

Sprint/Fancy Footwork/ Escape Artist takes care of all mobility issues. hence the 7 Agi.

10 Will/6 Int is for Premediation and Locus of Control. premediation = 1 free PsI ability every 5th turn an Locus of Control is the best feat ever.

Cheap Shot/ Combo/ Critical Power / Recklessness give quite a bit of additional damage to the punches.

Grenadier reduces the cooldown of the most useful grenades so there is that.

Initially till you get Force emission (lv5) its a bitch playing and i resorted to combat knifes and throwing knives (ab)using Line of Sight to deal with 1 enemy at a time. After that its time to go unarmed with spiked boots till you get lightning punches and craft/loot a decent pair of electrified gloves.

One major downside is that a 3 con non-stealth melee char is quite squishy until you get a shield so you will have to be careful and utilize grenades smartly.

Another variant is dump agility and get 10 will at start with 7 int. This will allow you to get a couple of cool crafting feats like power management and clothier/skinner. With clothier/Skinner a good quality raw material Tabi boots will add quite a bit of movement points and your shield will be a lot more powerful and allow you to reach 16 Dex...but that still sacrifices a lot of mobility and utility fo escape artist (FUCK YOU BOLA NETS).

Try that build. once you get a shield and tabi boots you kill most shit if you pass the initiative roll.

 

[Shadenuat]

Stealthy fast kiting builds are much more fun, but of course YMMV. And on topic of that - even con 3 builds don't really get mileage from dodge/evasion - if combat lasts longer than your shield you're doing something wrong.

Yea and with Stealth you also don't need Sprint or lots of movement points, compared to ranged or melee juggernauts, you always get superior positioning.

 

[Eyestabber]

The build is standard - S:8 , D:3 , A:3 , C:9 , P:10 , W:3 , I:4 with 1)guns, 2)throw, 3)hack, 4)lockpick, 5)mechanics, 6)electronics and 7)tailoring.

STR is too high, INT is too low. Maximum STR you need is 7 (for full auto). 8 is only needed for metal armor. You're better off starting with lower strength and then bumping it via levels, IMO. And you won't get an AR before level 4, so you can easily start with STR 5.

INT is a very, very bad choice of dumpstat, since crafting is so strong in this game. Don't go higher than 7, tho, since that's what all the crafting feats demand.

DEX has been severely dumped, which will result in both poor initiative and a penalty to throwing. I could be wrong, but I never dump my dex lower than 5. Dumping AGI and WILL is fine, can't have everything.

TL;DR: your choice of skills demands higher INT and DEX and you're overvaluing STR a bit.

1) For my 8th skill should I go for persuasion or biology? How much content does persuasion unlock, and if I were to roll with classic xp system would it matter (you skip some combat with persuasion IIRC). Persuasion probably unlocks additional content later ingame, so thats another reason for me to prefer it over biology. Or maybe I'll increase Will to 4, and go for tailor + biology + persuasion at reduced rates?

I'm gonna be blunt: persuasion sucks. And biology makes your life easier early game so the choice between the two seems clear-cut to me. Also, I agree with what Blaine said about greanades and chemistry. Go for it.

2) Which faction should I follow for maximum content? (Protectorate vs Libruls) I've seen some quests and read some spoilers (gas libruls l0l) , do I need persuasion for any factions later in the game? (there was a discussion about this in the other topic but I tried to avoid spoilers as much as possible)

Dunno. Only played protectorate. If by "content" you mean "benefits" than definetly go for the Protectorate, since they are the best mid-game source of weapon and armor components.

3) I would like to test the classic xp system, but should I reserve it for a later gameplay? Without stealth, juggernaut seems like a suitable match for non-oddity gameplay though.

Yeah. You'll progress much faster with classic, since you picked all the box-opening skills and you're a straight up fighter. I like classic, tbh, since being 1 xp away from level up triggers me badly. But make no mistake: the game is balanced around oddity. Styg said so himself on Matt Chat, so classic is very likely to make your game easier than intented.

One last thing (well, three actually): have a sniper rifle as your secondary weapon for those loooong range encounters. Tacvests are BETTER than metal armor against early game firearms. Metal retakes the lead late game with Super Metal and sniper rifles becoming common. You might find my AR guide to be useful (but since you tagged me here, I'm guessing you already read it ).

That's all I can think right now. Have fun!

 

[Inf0mercial]

If your going heavy armour 9 str is mandatory at a point, so many fights i have only won because tungsten armour stacked gives dreadnought levels of armour i have 39 resistance on body and 8 on boots i have more mechanical resistance than a dreadnought combined with the boost in % you get effective 60-70 def against all things mechanical, that's only 100 quality tungsten stacked with 80's.

 

[damager]

Where the hell is the entrance to the tunnel to buzzers shop? Hell I went so far down south I ended up in the GMS compount

 

[Shadenuat]

Where the hell is the entrance to the tunnel to buzzers shop? Hell I went so far down south I ended up in the GMS compount

Next location south after Buzzer's shop. You'll have to stealth through Faceless outside.

 

[Blaine]

Thinking about it, I wonder why people actually want using AR and heavy armor, since it seems to me it's such a limited build compared to just wearing kevlar coat and using good shield, and having high DEX, high AGI instead and ability to kite anything and use shitton of grenades and traps like I did on my first playthrough (7 points in both would give you Grenadier, Quick Tinkering & Sprint and Hit&Run). It's not like heavy armor would protect you from psionic bombardment.

beats me. Tried the AR build, but after some time being a turret in combat began to be tiresome. Also - no stealth.

Stealthy fast kiting builds are much more fun, but of course YMMV. And on topic of that - even con 3 builds don't really get mileage from dodge/evasion - if combat lasts longer than your shield you're doing something wrong.

Part of the reason I'm doing AR/heavy is because I've done practically everything else, other than knife homo/unarmed.

My character was the ultimate ambush artist and cheesemaster as max-Stealth omni-psi with obscene movement points on my last playthrough, and extremely powerful. I cleared out almost the entire Lunatic mall without ever being seen, for example, except for one small part. When I was seen that game, typically I'd still destroy everything.

It's refreshing being forced to actually deal with enemies' damage output and not constantly abuse LOS. Also, AR commando can actually survive multiple hits from sniper rifles, constant strafing from enemy AR wielders and so on, even after the shield goes down (if it goes down).

Unfortunately, 0 MP AR commando is super-weak to knife homos and large gatherings of psi users. However, there are only three significant gatherings of knife homos and psi users in the entire game (well, and the last battle in Arena... fists also get Crippling Strike), one of which is easily avoidable (and one is skippable, though you probably wouldn't want to skip them). Figuring out how best to deal with them is fun. Everyone else just gets mowed down like a chump.

I went Traps and Quick Tinkering with my current build too to add more variety, and even did Pickpocket 90. Not having to dump tons of points into Stealth, Evasion, and Dodge allows a lot more freedom, and besides, with crafting you can actually get very high Stealth and moonlight as a stealth guy with just a balaclava, tabi, black leather, and a cloaking device. The cloak isn't even really needed, but with it you can get 120+ Stealth with 0 points invested late game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Where the hell is the entrance to the tunnel to buzzers shop? Hell I went so far down south I ended up in the GMS compount

Next location south after Buzzer's shop. You'll have to stealth through Faceless outside.

No you don't need stealth. Just enter first map east as possible and continue moving south. You kill the kamikaze bots and continue south to next map. Plasma sentries should be disabled from previous quest.

 

[veevoir]

Blaine - so how was the fight with Carnifex?

I like the idea of seeing what enemies can actually do before they die, though I like the puzzle game that is playing a glass cannon more. Without PSI it is much harder to clear the map and survive untouched.

 

[Blaine]

Blaine - so how was the fight with Carnifex?

I haven't done it yet because I have absolutely no idea how I can win.

Morphine, Aegis, a hypo or two (maybe a super hypo), and praying that my absolutely massive DT/DR and high HP hold out while I spray bullets with 16% chance to hit due to 40 stacks of Crippling Strike is my only real hope.

Carnifex is the ultimate cheater. Not only are his stats far higher than they naturally should be, he is custom-built to demolish one enemy, a luxury the player often can't afford since you're always fighting multiple enemies at once.

 

[veevoir]

Working under assumption yiure capable of surviving the first turn - setting him on fire (fear) is really effective. A few turns of free shooting.
If you have grenadier it can even become constant cc.

With traps though.. survive, run away and quicktinker a bear trap, shoot, rinse, repeat around one of the columns?

 

[Blaine]

Running away requires me not to be caught in a net.

Yeah, I've considered bringing chemical blob pistols since I'm going to be fucked by Crippling Strike anyway.

 

[Shadenuat]

Part of the reason I'm doing AR/heavy is because I've done practically everything else, other than knife homo/unarmed. <...> It's refreshing being forced to actually deal with enemies' damage output and not constantly abuse LOS.

I tried running a melee build with heavy armor (on Hard) but dropped the character right at Junkyard after I found out that having absurd amounts of STR or CON does nothing to counter movement penalty from Steel Armor. And it's not even that great in melee (Alpha Rathound's Rend for 20 damage per hit explained everything to me). It feels ridiculously underpowered armor to wear.

 

[Blaine]

That's because it's shitty low-quality armor. When you get some q150-160 Super Steel armor with three Super Steel/TiChrome plates and some nice boots, you can easily get 75%/32 mech+, 70%/28 energy+, even 40%/18 heat+, plus 5 acid DT.

Yeah, it's a bit absurd how wearing light armor gives you far more MP than you'd have naked, while wearing even remotely heavy armor leaves you with like 5 MP (or even 0, if you have plates on).

 

[axedice]

Thanks for the input, seems I should go with lower per/con and higher int/dex for AR Juggernaut build

If by "content" you mean "benefits" than definetly go for the Protectorate

I actually meant more quests and plot exposure, but I guess there isn't much difference for either side. I've also read that you need some persuasion to finish quests favorably with faceless and have a chance to ally with them. I wonder if that unlocks anything new in the game?

 

[Shadenuat]

That's because it's shitty low-quality armor.

Also my damage output with hammer was crap compared to other weapons. Doubt I would survived to see 160 ss plates

Well, the first vest you can buy for a handful of credits can give you 15 DR against bullets, and then it's easy to get 30-60. And other types of damage are absorbed into low frequency shield well enough.
And compared to amount of damage you can dish out with AR or sniper rifle or PSI, even best metal armor doesn't seem that powerful.

I also found 10 CON perk p. dumb, since it does nothing against melee stuns and flashbangs. So many points wasted into basically lowering your pain from shock bolts by little.
And yes, fuck knife homos. Lol 10 STR *stab* now you're over encumbered lololo.

 

[Blaine]

If Thick Skull meant you could never be fully disabled period, it'd be great. As it is, it has no effect on the vast majority of disabling abilities, so it's shit.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well at least my space marine got great achivo for that short life he had with his dumped DEX.

 

[damager]

Whats with Cut Throat sometimes having no effect? Is this intended?

 

[veevoir]

You must be attacking from stealth, behind the enemy, upwind, between 8pm and 4am and be sure there are no light sources within 10tiles.

Tl; dr: because this feat is shit.

 

[Blaine]

In theory, Cut-Throat is incredibly useful if you have high Stealth, because it effectively removes one combatant from the majority of the fight and may also outright kill them before expiring.

damager's screenshot, however, reveals that the feat is clearly bugged. His character was surely in stealth before using Cut-Throat (since the Lurkers are still in their undisturbed starting positions), is clearly behind the target, is using a knife, and used Cut Throat appropriately.

Styg fix pls

 

[ghostdog]

I think that while Cut-throat ignores all damage resistances, the intended victim can still dodge the fucking hit and they miraculously dodge pretty often. I've already stated my views on this:

Styg I would like to request an improvement on the "Cut-Throat" feat. I have a dex melee build and it's the only feat I've regretted getting.

-Firstly, it's a lot of fuss to make it work since you have to sneak up from behind. Sometimes the hit misses simply because you aren't perfectly aligned behind the victim. I suggest you give it a wider angle of use.
-Secondly, even though the feat bypasses all resistances and shields, it misses quite a few times, probably because the victim miraculously dodges, this is unbelievably frustrating, especially for a feat that takes so much preparation. I would suggest a heavy dodge penalty for the victim.
-Third, even if I get behind and perform it, it just isn't very useful. So I've killed ONE of the 3-5 enemies in the area, so what? This feat requires 30 AP and since I've come out of stealth I now have next to no AP and very few movement points, which means I have almost no remaining options for that turn. Cut throat is always used by a high dex build which means mobility and easy incapacitating options. Without thinking of performing cut throat, I could have sneaked among two enemies and incapacitated them both in the same turn. With my high initiative and mobility, I could have also appeared without stealth and incapacitate/kill 3 of them in the first turn. I highly suggest making it take only 15AP.

 

[epeli]

Cut-throat is already one of the most powerful feats in capable hands, I don't believe Styg is going to buff it.

But to the point. Cut-throat is not and never was bugged. It just doesn't work if the target is aware of you. Simple as that.

You can be detected while moving closer to perform the attack if you're already very close to being detected, and I'm 99% sure that was the case here. However, Styg changed that recently. Underrail is slowly declining already...