Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Alex]

...
The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

Strange, cause i see no problem at all - i am having fun playing the tactical puzzle game every encounter.

Nice. I would rather play an RPG myself, though.

 

[Commissar Draco]

So I finished the last mission for Protectorate and got measly 3 XP fort that? No loot cause you had too leave terrorists base in hurry of suffer the (hilarious) consequences, no promotion, money and not even the CAU cool armor as reward... Mission was cool though

Spoiler

You'll get the CAU armor a little later.

Just got this one with added satisfaction of Sargent Jew face jelous mug ... but have another problem; Got quest to escape from Institute before the ITZ... well escaped (barely) using the escape route deserter took earlier... and now have quests tagged... My Bosses in SGS, Pretorian Security and Protectorate have no quests for me.... Have I brake the game? Was there THE escape route I should take to finish the quest and push the plot forward?

Edit found out that you indeed need to take another elevator to progress... btw Deep Caverns suck its so far the most boring section of game and real let down after all those fun institute and protectorate quests.

 

[Bubbles]

A character goes into stealth and.. simply walking around right in front of other people almost invisible. Feels unnatural as fuck to me. Let's whine about that too.

That's actually why I don't like playing stealth characters in Underrail.

 

[hell bovine]

There are several options: cost and availability, have gear that can be used to reduce the effects of these weapons, have only 3 or 4 grenades be readily available for the player, have attacks that can set off your grenades (more likely the more you have directly on your person), etc. How to make the actual balance is something that requires lots of testing.

The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

And that problem would be?

edit: And also, now I really have to ask: what do you consider balanced? BG1 had the sleep spell and an overabundance of wands, allowing for fireball spam (and lightning wands in close quarters were just ridiculous), BG2 literally went overboard with mage spells. If that's supposed to be an example of a balanced combat system without cooldowns...

 

[Eyestabber]

A character goes into stealth and.. simply walking around right in front of other people almost invisible. Feels unnatural as fuck to me. Let's whine about that too.

That's actually why I don't like playing stealth characters in Underrail.

Well that's a "feature" shared with a ton of other games.

The real reason to avoid stealth in Underrail is the turtle stepping. AW GOD.

I can almost hear a Styg's voice going "You think turtle steps bad? Wait till you press Stealth button, comrade!" :russia:

 

[Fenix]

One little nigger boy left all alone;
He went out and hanged himself and then there were None.

Spoiler

Took me a few hours and a bunch of mines.

Savescumming is just people having poor self-control, and expecting devs to fix it for them.

Games is about pleasure, not training self-control you motherfucker.
If I wish some self-contol, I would go monastery.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

...
The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

Strange, cause i see no problem at all - i am having fun playing the tactical puzzle game every encounter.

Nice. I would rather play an RPG myself, though.

Dismissing Underrail as an RPG because of cooldowns is pretty dumb.

 

[ST'Ranger]

You and all the cooldown lovers who can't imagine gaming without them, you keep asking but you never actually listen.

If you create an outgroup of "cooldown lovers", then lump anyone you don't like in that group, you can blame all the world's problems on that group.

I actually prefer games not to have cooldowns and can think of numerous examples of games which have a terrible implementation. Underrail is not one. It has excellent combat that feels very satisfying.

The only argument you set forth in your post was "cooldowns are just bad design". What I want to hear is how to have Underrail keep it's amazing combat and get rid of cooldowns. There is simply no way to have Aimed Shot without a cooldown unless it's Sawyered into irrelevance, as an example. I think we could all agree that even if cooldowns are terrible, Sawyering is the ultimate design mistake.

If your position is that the entire combat system has to be redesigned from the ground up just to remove cooldowns, then maybe you could find it in your power to understand why some think that's an impractical solution with uncertain benefits - and that some think it resembles a naked appeal to ideological purity.

 

[Darth Roxor]

i am updating my list of cooldown lovers as we speak

beware popamole fags

 

[hell bovine]

You and all the cooldown lovers who can't imagine gaming without them, you keep asking but you never actually listen.

If you create an outgroup of "cooldown lovers", then lump anyone you don't like in that group, you can blame all the world's problems on that group.

I actually prefer games not to have cooldowns and can think of numerous examples of games which have a terrible implementation. Underrail is not one. It has excellent combat that feels very satisfying.

The only argument you set forth in your post was "cooldowns are just bad design". What I want to hear is how to have Underrail keep it's amazing combat and get rid of cooldowns. There is simply no way to have Aimed Shot without a cooldown unless it's Sawyered into irrelevance, as an example. I think we could all agree that even if cooldowns are terrible, Sawyering is the ultimate design mistake.

If your position is that the entire combat system has to be redesigned from the ground up just to remove cooldowns, then maybe you could find it in your power to understand why some think that's an impractical solution with uncertain benefits - and that some think it resembles a naked appeal to ideological purity.

I agree; I prefer games without cooldowns, but Underrail combat is fun as it is. It needs further tweaking, sure, I have my own list of complaints, but asking to overhaul a game completely after the release is ridiculous.

 

[Alex]

There are several options: cost and availability, have gear that can be used to reduce the effects of these weapons, have only 3 or 4 grenades be readily available for the player, have attacks that can set off your grenades (more likely the more you have directly on your person), etc. How to make the actual balance is something that requires lots of testing.

The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

And that problem would be?

edit: And also, now I really have to ask: what do you consider balanced? BG1 had the sleep spell and an overabundance of wands, allowing for fireball spam (and lightning wands in close quarters were just ridiculous), BG2 literally went overboard with mage spells. If that's supposed to be an example of a balanced combat system without cooldowns...

I don't think Baldur's Gate is balanced, but I think it is a better game than Underrail. I think that by choosing to respect the internal logic up to a point and giving the player a vast amount of interesting options, Baldur's Gate made something much more interesting overall. I don't mean by this to demean Underrail, only to say that it focused on something less important.

About the problem, I was trying to explain it in all these posts I have made in this thread.

...
The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

Strange, cause i see no problem at all - i am having fun playing the tactical puzzle game every encounter.

Nice. I would rather play an RPG myself, though.

Dismissing Underrail as an RPG because of cooldowns is pretty dumb.

You are the one calling it a tactical puzzle.

 

[Fry]

i am updating my list of cooldown lovers as we speak

beware popamole fags

Goodness me. What are the consequences of being on this list? Does a short, sweaty nerd try to squeeze through my chimney and put a lump of coal in my sock drawer?

 

[Fenix]

Every time I came here I stamble upon this banal shit boring derailed talk about "bad cooldawns" I wish to eat those people faces.

 

[Alex]

And I wished Underrail didn't have cooldown abilities.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Goodness me. What are the consequences of being on this list?

you will know soon

 

[Nines]

i am updating my list of cooldown lovers as we speak

beware popamole fags

 

[Fenix]

I don't think Baldur's Gate is balanced, but I think it is a better game than Underrail.

Lol, better game with shit as shit combat system. Where is incubator in which you grow up?

 

[Fry]

Goodness me. What are the consequences of being on this list?

you will know soon

:terrorist:

 

[hell bovine]

I don't think Baldur's Gate is balanced, but I think it is a better game than Underrail. I think that by choosing to respect the internal logic up to a point and giving the player a vast amount of interesting options, Baldur's Gate made something much more interesting overall. I don't mean by this to demean Underrail, only to say that it focused on something less important.

About the problem, I was trying to explain it in all these posts I have made in this thread.

What do you mean by "choosing to respect the internal logic up to a point and giving the player a vast amount of interesting options"? Because I had a lot of fun playing an evil sorceress, but frankly, I fail to see any sort of logic in how magic was implemented in that game. Prime example being the number of actions you could take in a round.

 

[oneself]

There are several options: cost and availability, have gear that can be used to reduce the effects of these weapons, have only 3 or 4 grenades be readily available for the player, have attacks that can set off your grenades (more likely the more you have directly on your person), etc. How to make the actual balance is something that requires lots of testing.

The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

powerful consumables like grenades were kept in check by costing a bag of gold and being as rare as erect nipples on an eagle.

Theres already gear that reduces the effect of grenades, but its not good enough because you need protection from other things as well.
As for being only able to have 3-4 grenades available? sure, but then we get onto another gamey limitations territory, because with belts you should be able to carry many many many grenades easily in real life.

totally ot, but I'm still waiting for the game that punishes you for carrying around too many explosives by having them go off in your backpack/tactical vest/grenade belt with a well-aimed shot.

JA2?

 

[oneself]

There are so many choices about how to proceed with initiation, which targets to take down in what order, which methods to use to delay or hasten outcomes.

Or... it's about going 1,2,3,4 and 1,2,3,4 and 1,2,3,4 on the quick keys again and again until everybody is dead or you need to start running around waiting for your abilities to cooldown. Maybe sneak in a shot from your gun once in a while if you're too lazy to move your hand to the quick keys.
I exaggerate of course, since that's not always the case but that's ALL cooldowns do. As Alex said, cooldowns do more bad than good. It's not the cooldowns that give you the choices, the only thing they do is force you into patterns and circles and it's very evident especially when you have to deal with enemies that are way below your power level.
These choices can exist without the cooldowns and the whole thing would be much better without them.

Also fuck off with the "challenge". You and all the cooldown lovers who can't imagine gaming without them, you keep asking but you never actually listen.

You are back.

Are you here to bring a legitimate solution or you cry some more?

 

[oneself]

I don't think Baldur's Gate is balanced, but I think it is a better game than Underrail. I think that by choosing to respect the internal logic up to a point and giving the player a vast amount of interesting options, Baldur's Gate made something much more interesting overall. I don't mean by this to demean Underrail, only to say that it focused on something less important.

About the problem, I was trying to explain it in all these posts I have made in this thread.

It sounds to me that you care more about a game without cooldowns than a game that is poorly balanced. It can be poorly balanced, but just don't balance it with cooldowns.

 

[ArchAngel]

There are several options: cost and availability, have gear that can be used to reduce the effects of these weapons, have only 3 or 4 grenades be readily available for the player, have attacks that can set off your grenades (more likely the more you have directly on your person), etc. How to make the actual balance is something that requires lots of testing.

The issue, as I see it, is that by balancing this way, the game created a problem worse than the one it is solving.

powerful consumables like grenades were kept in check by costing a bag of gold and being as rare as erect nipples on an eagle.

Theres already gear that reduces the effect of grenades, but its not good enough because you need protection from other things as well.
As for being only able to have 3-4 grenades available? sure, but then we get onto another gamey limitations territory, because with belts you should be able to carry many many many grenades easily in real life.

totally ot, but I'm still waiting for the game that punishes you for carrying around too many explosives by having them go off in your backpack/tactical vest/grenade belt with a well-aimed shot.

JA2?

Xcom when your soldier gets mind controlled :D

 

[Eyestabber]

i am updating my list of cooldown lovers as we speak

beware popamole fags

You should include D:OS fans in your list.

That game features not only KOOL-DOWNS, but also an EE that accommodates "couch gaming"™ with a controller and non-binary romances for maximum :incloosive:.

Gee, I'm sure nobody here would thrash one game because KOOL-DOWNS and praise the other because "muh gr8 combat that is totally not balanced around Kool-Downs".

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Just relax and try to enjoy it people.