Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[ST'Ranger]

Energy Pistol characters really must start out as Hammerer characters realistically. To get the most out of plasmas, you need several elements. Obvious ones are Critical Power, Practical Physicist, Recklessness, Steadfast Aim. Less obvious perhaps, are elements like Point Shot and Opportunist. Point Shot is actually extremely important as it allows the character to fire twice and reload at a mere 13 DEX, which is swiftly achieved. Point Shot also has synergy with Smart Modules in case you can't find a high-quality Circular Wave Amplifier. Flashbangs + Opportunist are great synergies that make crowded fights manageable for such a character (a character who needs to walk right up to the foe to kill them). Acid/Shock + Opportunist allow one to kill ultra-durable targets rapidly.

It's true that there are easier and more player-friendly strategies to use with other characters, but the killing power of these weapons is not in question. Not everything needs to be brought up to the combat-trivializing level of psi powers or SMGs.

 

[Excidium II]

Extreme pigeon holing and one wrong move you have a shit build. Sounds fun.

 

[Gord]

To get the most out of plasmas, you need several elements.

It's true that there are easier and more player-friendly strategies to use with other characters, but the killing power of these weapons is not in question. Not everything needs to be brought up to the combat-trivializing level of psi powers or SMGs.

Funny, I had most of those in place and still found energy pistols to be sub-par. But that's probably because SMGs can get a bit OP easily. :shrug:
I did reach DEX13 only relatively late, though. Also I didn't know that the CWA could be used in energy pistols - I think the text only mentions shields (but who wants to use them in shields?), so I never tried.
In the end I just wondered why I should bother with Energy and Chemical Pistols when other weapons are both more efficient and commonly available.

You can freely explore the world after getting outta DC

Ok, so I guess you can finish the quest, but at this point, why bother, 'cept for sake of completion?

 

[Ziem]

found energy pistols to be sub-par.

Also I didn't know that the CWA could be used in energy pistols - I think the text only mentions shields (but who wants to use them in shields?), so I never tried.

 

[ST'Ranger]

The combat mechanics and character system are so flexible that you can really make any of the huge number of weapons in the game very deadly with some experience and homework? Sounds fun.

Or perhaps

You mean I have the freedom and flexibility to make a bad character? Sounds fun.

 

[Modron]

Ugh damn mutagen puzzle, about to give up and just go face tchort without it. Got every mutagen scanned working through it on paper, getting 6+ steps deeps and a little frustrated so I google the puzzle and see a steam forum post where one guy can't solve his puzzle despite it being very obviously the combination of just 2 mutagens.

 

[hell bovine]

Well, the description of the mutagen puzzle in-game is a bit confusing (that, or it's trolling), because it's not quite how it works.

 

[Excidium II]

The combat mechanics and character system are so flexible that you can really make any of the huge number of weapons in the game very deadly with some experience and homework? Sounds fun.

Or perhaps

You mean I have the freedom and flexibility to make a bad character? Sounds fun.

Guess I'm spoiled for using knives and having a rich array of options and choices to make at every even level.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Ugh damn mutagen puzzle, about to give up and just go face tchort without it. Got every mutagen scanned working through it on paper, getting 6+ steps deeps and a little frustrated so I google the puzzle and see a steam forum post where one guy can't solve his puzzle despite it being very obviously the combination of just 2 mutagens.

I've completed the game many times already and never had an issue with the puzzle. It's possible (because of an ambiguous bit of text) that you have in your mind a slightly wrong idea how it works.

Puzzle Spoilers

Echo-1: AA BB CC DD EE -FF
Echo-2: WW KK FF -DD -AA

If you inject Echo-1 then Echo-2, you'll get

BB CC DD EE WW KK FF

If you inject Echo-2 then Echo-1, you'll get

WW KK AA BB CC DD EE

If you inject Echo-1 then Echo-2 then Echo-1, you'll get

BB CC DD EE WW KK AA

Guess I'm spoiled for using knives and having a rich array of options and choices to make at every even level.

It's absolutely true that some characters are more intuitive to create than others. AR characters, for example, you basically can't get wrong. But my point is that the system is flexible enough where you can take a concept that intuitively might not seem good and make it work by using every facet of the system available. This is in stark contrast to something like the Throwing skill in Fallout, where no matter how much you know about the game you just won't be able to make it work.

I think a more fair criticism might be that information is not very optimally displayed in the game (especially crafting information, which is crucial for certain builds), and it creates an undue burden on players trying to gain traction with the mechanics.

 

[Nines]

Either I was playing this game too much, or there is really something wrong with DC. I was very enthusiastic about it, but now I simply have no desire to continue.

 

[ST'Ranger]

If you made it to DC, it was most likely the juicy combat that propelled you there. The biggest flaw of DC is that the combat core that makes up the gameplay of the rest of Underrail is no longer really there. It's a very different style of game in DC, more focused on exploration, lore, and solution of tasks. It's not just you, the rug gets pulled out from under the player because the expectation is that the heavy combat focus of the game continues as is.

 

[Nines]

I nearly ran out of bolts in the forest, and non-stealth characters will probably have to fight the endless waves of respawned enemies, so I don't think it's the problem. Hard to say what is.

 

[Gord]

Well, the combat encounters do tend a bit more towards trashmobs in the DC. A lot of samey encounters (at least in the mushroom forest and the labyrinth) plus respawns that don't pose a huge thread but take some time to complete and drain resources.

 

[ST'Ranger]

I nearly ran out of bolts in the forest, and non-stealth characters will probably have to fight the endless waves of respawned enemies, so I don't think it's the problem. Hard to say what is.

Stealth is not a factor with the "endless waves of respawned enemies" - in fact you should get out of stealth and walk through these areas at full speed because time works against you.

DC Spoilers

I have multiple saves where I've encountered not even a single Tchort creature from these "endless waves". Three of these saves have ~0 Stealth skill. To avoid these creatures the best way is to never have them even spawn - and that can only be achieved by moving quickly. This may be just very unintuitive because all across the internet I've seen complaints that e.g. DC cannot even be attempted without Stealth characters - when in fact Stealth makes the Tchort debuff areas much more difficult.

In other areas of Underrail, the combat encounters are very organic - they flow with the world, the story, and the environment. You are generally fighting because of human motivations - greed, politics, savagery. The enemies you encounter are guarding territory or lying in ambush at a chokepoint etc. The encounters themselves are part of the world-building. In DC this falls flat. Now when you got Exotic Area X there are X critters and when you go to Exotic Area Y there are Y critters - not very enticing and with no impetus to really fight them.

DC Spoilers

And the real tragedy is that most combat in DC is best avoided. Shrooms, wurms, and Tchort spawn are best when encountered at their absolute minimum. This makes the encounters an environmental hazard to be avoided rather than a point of interest like previous encounters. All in all, the combat aspect of Underrail whithers away in DC for these reasons. The combats are annoying environmental slogs rather than interesting encounters.

Regarding the Forest

You need only ever kill 4 or 5 shrooms, the rest can all be avoided - unfortunately one can't know this for sure without having successfully "beaten" the area. Definitely the most despicable area in the game.

 

[Excidium II]

this Al Fabet guy.

 

[Nines]

Regarding the Forest

You need only ever kill 4 or 5 shrooms, the rest can all be avoided - unfortunately one can't know this for sure without having successfully "beaten" the area. Definitely the most despicable area in the game.

Spoiler

Shrooms aren't the problem, turrets are. I probably killed around 20 turrets before finally finishing the "roots".

But honestly, I think problems started before that.

This Six guy appeared out of nowhere with some patriotic speech how Faceless are good and Tchortists are bad, and how I should kill Tchort because I'm a Dragonb... special. Then, turns out that Tchort exist only because Faceless decided to throw scientists into mutagens, instead of killing them. And then I found out that Cube was stolen by Oculus, the very same organization Six was working with. Just wtf?

So, I should spend 10-20 hours more farming respawning Tchortlings and goddamn pony-shrooms just to kill Tchort and see some abrupt ending how the Probably Main Villain Guy escaped and will see me in Underrail 2 (which maybe, probably, should come out in the next 4-6 years?). I would rather see a complete experience, instead of this.

I valued Deus Ex feel in this game more than anything. The ability to deal with situations as you see fit using various means (different gadgets, ventilation shafts, stealth, persuasion, lockpicking/hacking). The final chapter removed mostly all of that, and mutated into some kind of dungeon crawler.

this Al Fabet guy.

It's funny at first, but then...

Spoiler

 

[ST'Ranger]

Spoiler

Shrooms aren't the problem, turrets are. I probably killed around 20 turrets before finally finishing the "roots".

But honestly, I think problems started before that.

This Six guy appeared out of nowhere with some patriotic speech how Faceless are good and Tchortists are bad, and how I should kill Tchort because I'm a Dragonb... special. Then, turns out that Tchort exist only because Faceless decided to throw scientists into mutagens, instead of killing them. And then I found out that Cube was stolen by Oculus, the very same organization Six was working with. Just wtf?

So, I should spend 10-20 hours more farming respawning Tchortlings and goddamn pony-shrooms just to kill Tchort and see some abrupt ending how the Probably Main Villain Guy escaped and will see me in Underrail 2 (which maybe, probably, should come out in the next 4-6 years?). I would rather see a complete experience, instead of this.

I valued Deus Ex feel in this game more than anything. The ability to deal with situations as you see fit using various means (different gadgets, ventilation shafts, stealth, persuasion, lockpicking/hacking). The final chapter removed mostly all of that, and mutated into some kind of dungeon crawler.

Big Spoilers

You need to kill the turrets once at most; there is a way to become completely immune to their damage. Still, I agree that everything about shroom forest is pretty terrible. And again, you never have to kill or even encounter a single Tchortling so complaining about "farming" them is missing the mark. The real issue is that they're not guarding or protecting anything - and they can't be eliminated. They really could just be replaced by a clock - and that's boring.

Things certainly could have been handled better at the end story-wise. Tanner was pegged or at least implicated pretty early on, but depending on things the player saw or didn't see during their playthrough, everything to do with Six will seem more and more nonsensical. And to have your hand effectively forced in the way it was is awkward at best. There's clearly a conflict between the creative vision of the storyteller and the player's freedom of action regarding the precise sequence of events at the end. I have a strong sense that all these events could have been forced more creatively and not so blatantly.

A lot of the forge-your-own-path element of the game goes missing at DC, as you say. This is directly related to the missing interesting combat encounters - because the combat is an environmental hazard rather than an actual point of interest. If you're referring to the gate, though, I definitely agree that more options could have been available to bypass it - especially since the one option available involves slogging through the mushroom forest and the labyrinth, both of which are poorly-done location.

 

[Dead Guy]

I used to assume time was paused while you're trading, which it obviously isn't. That moment when I got out of trade and fucking Al Fabet stood in the dorway like that right behind me. How the fuck did you get there? What are you doing? Is this how you get all those organs?

 

[damager]

Where can I get a biotechnician's suite?

 

[Dead Guy]

At the biotechnician hotel.

 

[Excidium II]

Most infuriating quest award goes to: Missing Merchants

 

[toro]

Most infuriating quest award goes to: Missing Merchants

Spoiler

Did you found the clue in Deep Caverns?

 

[Excidium II]

Most infuriating quest award goes to: Missing Merchants

Spoiler

Did you found the clue in Deep Caverns?

Spoiler

Didn't get there yet. Lost count how many times I did rounds around the caves and surrounding areas north of Rail Crossing thinking I must have missed Lora somewhere.

 

[Gord]

Most infuriating quest award goes to: Missing Merchants

The thing is,

Spoiler

you can't actually find Lora before DC. The best you can do until then is find the keycard of the Bakers on the corpse in the caves, find out about the involvement of the Acid Hunters and confront Cornell about it.
At this point you can as well go back to SGS and turn the quest in, telling Vera what you learned.
Lora will only be found much later, while the amnesiac women in Hanging Rat bar is apparently connected to some other quest (which I didn't do myself either, however).

 

[Lambach]

I see everyone here talking shit about the DC area, but I have 3 different characters I've abandoned just prior to getting to DC. At that point your characters reach that "sweet spot" and you don't feel the need to advance further, specially when you hear what a clusterfuck the DC are and the story so far has been less-than-compelling. My countryman Дејан needs to work on the whole "scaling" thing a bit.