Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Yaz]

Where's the first C in Drag'N'Drop or the Jet Eater not spawning?

Not using a save game analyzer after starting the game?

Well, this is mostly for the D'n'D, as the comment was made concerning the bar. And as several people have pointed out so far they are mostly after completing stat checks. The first C in this case comes from you playing a character which cannot bypass their stats limitations. If you're lucky and you get the All-Ins you get to pass some. Nice. Not essential, though. For example, I'm always after the Pickpocketing food, but not a biggie if I don't find one. One less Supersoldier before DC.

As far as the Jet Eater is concerned... seriously, you're not missing much.

 

[Parabalus]

choice

get lucky

seriously, you're not missing much.

I don't really disagree, but it's extremely dumb still.

 

[hell bovine]

Where's the first C in Drag'N'Drop or the Jet Eater not spawning?

Not using a save game analyzer after starting the game?

Well, this is mostly for the D'n'D, as the comment was made concerning the bar. And as several people have pointed out so far they are mostly after completing stat checks. The first C in this case comes from you playing a character which cannot bypass their stats limitations. If you're lucky and you get the All-Ins you get to pass some.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If content is generated based on random spawn chance, then you've eliminated C&C already. The player is faced with the consequences of a random outcome, not choice.

 

[Yaz]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If content is generated based on random spawn chance, then you've eliminated C&C already. The player is faced with the consequences of a random outcome, not choice.

No, that's a late addition to the game. The purpose of the cocktails is that you can bypass some of your character's initial limitations. I believe that's the point not quite hitting home. Your c&c is already in place as you're progressing with a set of basic stats. But the notion that you absolutely MUST bypass those limitations via said cocktails is what people seemingly are having issues with. Not spawning the water bar is hardly a game-changer.

 

[grumf]

Does anyone know if the faceless gaunts in DC respawn infinitely? I cleared Talos Outpost (attempting a 100% oddity run...) but there appears to be no end to them in Warehouse.

 

[CHEMS]

It wouldn't bother me either if All-In were removed, the rest aren't as egregious.

I think it's about adapting to what you have available. All-Ins not being there doesn't mean that you won't be able to complete stat checks. A 3 Agi character can still climb in the pipe at Port Crag for example. While All-Ins would make that easier, it's not the only way.

It's just INT and WILL which have no alternatives and gatekeep lore and skill points.

AGI is mostly good for skipping boring content and has a lot more options (cave hopper, supersoldier, white dude), similarly to PER, you can make them without All-In, if you really want to.

oh and btw, all-in isnt ensured even if bar does spawn for you. Everything on the menu appears to be randomised, for example i just loaded my save with that bar present and its not there

The patrons are random and respawn like merchants, they can be pickpocketed for All-In. Random, but you'll prob get some.

I think there is some guaranteed in the safe though. There isn't.

How do you get to the safe though? The barkeeper is on the way.

 

[Parabalus]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If content is generated based on random spawn chance, then you've eliminated C&C already. The player is faced with the consequences of a random outcome, not choice.

No, that's a late addition to the game. The purpose of the cocktails is that you can bypass some of your character's initial limitations. I believe that's the point not quite hitting home. Your c&c is already in place as you're progressing with a set of basic stats. But the notion that you absolutely MUST bypass those limitations via said cocktails is what people seemingly are having issues with. Not spawning the water bar is hardly a game-changer.

How does it being a 'late addition' change anything?
It would be even more retarded had it been in the game from the beginning.

The cocktails override your "C&C" if anything.

It wouldn't bother me either if All-In were removed, the rest aren't as egregious.

I think it's about adapting to what you have available. All-Ins not being there doesn't mean that you won't be able to complete stat checks. A 3 Agi character can still climb in the pipe at Port Crag for example. While All-Ins would make that easier, it's not the only way.

It's just INT and WILL which have no alternatives and gatekeep lore and skill points.

AGI is mostly good for skipping boring content and has a lot more options (cave hopper, supersoldier, white dude), similarly to PER, you can make them without All-In, if you really want to.

oh and btw, all-in isnt ensured even if bar does spawn for you. Everything on the menu appears to be randomised, for example i just loaded my save with that bar present and its not there

The patrons are random and respawn like merchants, they can be pickpocketed for All-In. Random, but you'll prob get some.

I think there is some guaranteed in the safe though. There isn't.

How do you get to the safe though? The barkeeper is on the way.

Throwing gas grenades or killing them.

 

[hell bovine]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If content is generated based on random spawn chance, then you've eliminated C&C already. The player is faced with the consequences of a random outcome, not choice.

No, that's a late addition to the game. The purpose of the cocktails is that you can bypass some of your character's initial limitations. I believe that's the point not quite hitting home. Your c&c is already in place as you're progressing with a set of basic stats. But the notion that you absolutely MUST bypass those limitations via said cocktails is what people seemingly are having issues with. Not spawning the water bar is hardly a game-changer.

Your point is not making sense to me. Having the bar spawn doesn't remove your choice not to use the cocktail and therefore progress with your base stats.
In any game when the bar spawns, the player gets to choose and this can lead to different results. If the bar randomly doesn't spawn, then there is less c&c total. You simply have replaced that one choice with a random generator. It's the same with random dungeons and encounters. Whether you find something worthwile or nor, you won't get the choice to visit that dungeon unless the random generator spawns it.

 

[Yaz]

How does it being a 'late addition' change anything?

It's a form of power creep when you think about it. A lot of games do that in the later cycles of their lives. But in the case of Underrail it's more controlled as it's Styg we're talking about. If you're lucky you can get a tool to bypass the spider section of the Nexus of Technology, for instance(just a rough example.) Underrail's is still about being prepared for the spiders, or else, although I am certain every individual here would have a build that will roflstomp them, regardless. The choices you make during character creation and progression will make that successful with varying degrees of comfort, but getting an All-In will completely override that. In which case - ''Thank you, Styg.'' And move on.

But the point here is that full determinism in acquiring said All-In will disrupt the c&c structure of the game for that given situation. So my initial response to ''more determinism'' will always be ''what about c&c?'' That's all.

PS: you probably will spawn an All-In more than half the times of your playthroughs, to be honest.

 

[CHEMS]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If content is generated based on random spawn chance, then you've eliminated C&C already. The player is faced with the consequences of a random outcome, not choice.

No, that's a late addition to the game. The purpose of the cocktails is that you can bypass some of your character's initial limitations. I believe that's the point not quite hitting home. Your c&c is already in place as you're progressing with a set of basic stats. But the notion that you absolutely MUST bypass those limitations via said cocktails is what people seemingly are having issues with. Not spawning the water bar is hardly a game-changer.

How does it being a 'late addition' change anything?
It would be even more retarded had it been in the game from the beginning.

The cocktails override your "C&C" if anything.

It wouldn't bother me either if All-In were removed, the rest aren't as egregious.

I think it's about adapting to what you have available. All-Ins not being there doesn't mean that you won't be able to complete stat checks. A 3 Agi character can still climb in the pipe at Port Crag for example. While All-Ins would make that easier, it's not the only way.

It's just INT and WILL which have no alternatives and gatekeep lore and skill points.

AGI is mostly good for skipping boring content and has a lot more options (cave hopper, supersoldier, white dude), similarly to PER, you can make them without All-In, if you really want to.

oh and btw, all-in isnt ensured even if bar does spawn for you. Everything on the menu appears to be randomised, for example i just loaded my save with that bar present and its not there

The patrons are random and respawn like merchants, they can be pickpocketed for All-In. Random, but you'll prob get some.

I think there is some guaranteed in the safe though. There isn't.

How do you get to the safe though? The barkeeper is on the way.

Throwing gas grenades or killing them.

But then i won't be able to buy drinks anymore

 

[Trashos]

The random quests and content do not make sense to me either. If it is good content, have it for every playthrough. If it is not, drop it completely. If something is too OP, do not include it.

Another strategy is to gate content for only specific builds. UR already does that with Deacon's shop in Rail Crossing. Maybe that could be the way to go.

 

[Yaz]

Another strategy is to gate content for only specific builds. UR already does that with Deacon's shop in Rail Crossing. Maybe that could be the way to go.

But Deacon's Shop is available to almost every Expedition character in the game. You can very well botch something along the way, but that's not very likely. I assume that the majority of characters who complete Expedition will have access to his shop, as negligible as the benefits are( I suppose you can still can still gain some extra coin.)

Having high and low stat checks, as well as a degree of randomness with the additional optional content seems like a better option to me.

 

[Parabalus]

Another strategy is to gate content for only specific builds. UR already does that with Deacon's shop in Rail Crossing. Maybe that could be the way to go.

But Deacon's Shop is available to almost every Expedition character in the game. You can very well botch something along the way, but that's not very likely. I assume that the majority of characters who complete Expedition will have access to his shop, as negligible as the benefits are( I suppose you can still can still gain some extra coin.)

Having high and low stat checks, as well as a degree of randomness with the additional optional content seems like a better option to me.

No, because it completely cheapens the C&C and replaces it with 'LOL RANDOM'.

The fact that any e.g. 3 WILL character can access all the monoliths is bonkers, the fact that it remains completely outside of your control is just out of this world.

you probably will spawn an All-In more than half the times of your playthroughs, to be honest.

What's the spawn chance on D'n'D?

It's a form of power creep when you think about it.

That's not a positive.

If you're lucky you can get a tool to bypass the spider section of the Nexus of Technology, for instance(just a rough example.)

You have other non-random options for agility - cave hoppers, super soldier.

Styg removed the mental stats from Junkyard surprise, and replaced them with something 100x worse.

 

[hell bovine]

Speaking of random chance, I've run multiple toons through the depot, never run across the two-headed mutant. Randomly generated dungeon content might work in hack & slash, but isn't fun in exploration-focused games.

 

[Yaz]

No, because it completely cheapens the C&C and replaces it with 'LOL RANDOM'.

If we go back to where it began you will realise that I actually am more in favour of that point. However, as dubious as it may sound, I won't completely throw the random factor out of the window because it does give the chance to experience ''more content.'' Or rather, I should say - allows you to come up with a better plan based on luck and previous knowledge. If we make a fully deterministic model out of this, however, then every character will do one and the same thing at a given point.

The fact that any e.g. 3 WILL character can access all the monoliths is bonkers, the fact that it remains completely outside of your control is just out of this world.

Neutral shrug, really. Don't take it the wrong way.

What's the spawn chance on D'n'D?

If I am to judge from my limited experience - it spawns more often than not, but of course, that by itself says that I can't provide solid data.

You have other non-random options for agility - cave hoppers, super soldier.

Yes, of course. You can still climb the pipe at Port Crag for a full, easy stealth run of the area without All-In, which I think is a good thing. In the spider example you will have to go with All-In.

That's not a positive.

I mostly agree. My initial comment concerning this, however, was that it happens in later stages of a game's life. Warframe, for example, is fully notorious for uncontrolled amounts of power-creep. I'd still take Underrail's version.

Speaking of random chance, I've run multiple toons through the depot, never run across the two-headed mutant. Randomly generated dungeon content might work in hack & slash, but isn't fun in exploration-focused games.

I am not sure whether you must come back to the Depot after clearing it once. I've never made it my task to get that particular oddity, but I remember the only time I ever went back to the Depot for some Acid, I spawned the double-headed mutie. I've also never seen it spawn on a first run, as well.

 

[Parabalus]

Or rather, I should say - allows you to come up with a better plan based on luck and previous knowledge.

But there's no plan - you either luck into it or don't.

Your point would make more sense if there were no All-In, then depending on the rest of the cocktails for specific checks would require some skill and planning.

Yes, of course. You can still climb the pipe at Port Crag for a full, easy stealth run of the area without All-In, which I think is a good thing. In the spider example you will have to go with All-In.

Or kill them, or stealth around, or don't even go there in the first place, or side with them.

All of which is also easier if you luck into All-In.

I mostly agree. My initial comment concerning this, however, was that it happens in later stages of a game's life. Warframe, for example, is fully notorious for uncontrolled amounts of power-creep. I'd still take Underrail's version.

There's probably a Stygian version of this comic in this very thread.

In the spider example you will have to go with All-In.

Or White Dude.

All-In is basically a cheat code, given out at random.

 

[Yaz]

But there's no plan - you either luck into it or don't.

Your point would make more sense if there were no All-In, then depending on the rest of the cocktails for specific checks would require some skill and planning.

A limited supply of All-Ins could make things more interesting... or more deterministic, not sure. But I won't concede the point that as the game is functioning right now the random addition of All-Ins could make things easier for the experience player. Probably still better to not have any at all, as you pointed out.

All of which is also easier if you luck into All-In.

Pretty much. You'll still need to have a plan in case you don't find one.

There's probably a Stygian edit in this very thread.

Let's focus on the positive. They are making a new game instead of endlessly milking that one :D.

I have seen some threads deleted from the main website, sure, but those weren't a very mindful read to begin with.

Or White Night.

White Dude

All-In is basically a cheat code, given out at random.

You could send Styg a PM to share that opinion, actually. Would be interesting to see what he thinks about it. But as previously mentioned, games tend to do that at the later stages of their lives. Most old Destiny players have fond memories of the period when the game was being basically peacefully euthanised.

 

[CHEMS]

I ran into an event i've never seen before: Cuffed Man. You find a guy cuffed asking you to free him, saying he was cuffed by lurkers. But if you insist on him telling the truth, he'll tell he's a fugitive from north underrail and that he was pinned with a murder. If you help him, he gives you a cigar.

Also, unrelated question: for shotty builds, is it worth it taking fragmented chaos and critical power? I heard they don't stack.

 

[Yaz]

Also, unrelated question: for shotty builds, is it worth it taking fragmented chaos and critical power? I heard they don't stack.

I've heard as much, as well. But even if they don't stack, you will still get more damage. 3p shots will pack a punch and a half.

 

[Parabalus]

I ran into an event i've never seen before: Cuffed Man. You find a guy cuffed asking you to free him, saying he was cuffed by lurkers. But if you insist on him telling the truth, he'll tell he's a fugitive from north underrail and that he was pinned with a murder. If you help him, he gives you a cigar.

Also, unrelated question: for shotty builds, is it worth it taking fragmented chaos and critical power? I heard they don't stack.

They stack, they just don't interact. Not like there is anything better to take though.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Or White Dude.

All-In is basically a cheat code, given out at random.

What is the practical use of All-in? I mean not some QoL stuff, but some really unattainable build-wise things made possible with it.

I mean, with it I can (can I?) unlock Deacon shop with 3 PER character, but do I really need that shitty trader at all?

 

[Parabalus]

Or White Dude.

All-In is basically a cheat code, given out at random.

What is the practical use of All-in? I mean not some QoL stuff, but some really unattainable things made possible with it.

Use all the monoliths with base 3 WILL? Save a bunch of skill points on non-combat skills?

If it weren't rare you'd run with one on all the time, as it is it's not too impactful.

 

[CHEMS]

Styg, when you're gonna give us MACHINE GUNS?

I can already suggest the names: Fiend, Ravager, Leviathan. Please do not deny our DAKKA needs

 

[Major_Blackhart]

God I want an AR frame that can use .44 rounds.

 

[Trashos]

I tried the new nerfed psi. The details may need some work (to cater for the weaker psi abilities, mainly, that now seem to have become 100% irrelevant), but fundamentally I like the direction this is taking.

I can even take all the schools, and switch abilities/schools in and out depending on occasion. While we are at it, I wish the psi ability invoker moved from the F screen to the new P screen.

Note that I wasn't even one of those who believed that full psi was the most OP thing ever. But I like this new psi better.