Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[ciox]

They're a meme/toys for showoffs who could beat Dominating with nothing but a box of toothpicks and a pack of chewing gum.

That's true, but I'll be giving a versatility build a shot I think, like throwing and energy pistols with full focus on DEX.

In other news, speedhacking now crashes the game.

 

[Blaine]

That's true, but I'll be giving a versatility build a shot I think, like throwing and energy pistols with full focus on DEX.

Do you mean Versatility with a capital V? Because Versatility doesn't affect Throwing. If it did, it would allow us all to spend a feat in order to save 80ish skill points and have even higher effective Throwing than we otherwise would.

Versatility is such a laughable feat. For one thing, all combat skills in this game must be loaded down with feats in order to be viable. In order to use Versatility, you first waste a feat on it, then likely waste at least one or two additional feats in order to make that less precise, less damaging weapon skill worth a damn. You then most probably pump your primary skill's stat even more absurdly high so that the secondary skill at 60% isn't too terrible.

Then you may have to spend AP swapping between those weapons, carry them around everywhere, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I can easily see uses for it; but they're all going to be some kind of highly specific cheese strat, because otherwise the sacrifices aren't worth it.

A usable Versatility would cost you one feat, and you have to choose your additional weapon skill, but the secondary weapon skill could be partially invested in to bring it from 60% up to 80% of the primary's stats. Also, you get to pick two (yes, two) additional feats, packaged into Versatility and drawn exclusively from a pool of feats directly related to that secondary weapon skill (prereqs still apply).

Only then would it be worth burning a feat and some skill points in order to have an inferior alternative weapon option. Because then, you see, it would still be a FUNCTIONAL inferior weapon option, instead of a weak and imprecise feat black hole.

 

[ciox]

That's true, but I'll be giving a versatility build a shot I think, like throwing and energy pistols with full focus on DEX.

Do you mean Versatility with a capital V? Because Versatility doesn't affect Throwing. If it did, it would allow us all to spend a feat in order to save 80ish skill points and have even higher effective Throwing than we otherwise would.

Versatility is such a laughable feat. For one thing, all combat skills in this game must be loaded down with feats in order to be viable. In order to use Versatility, you first waste a feat on it, then likely waste at least one or two additional feats in order to make that less precise, less damaging weapon skill worth a damn. You then most probably pump your primary skill's stat even more absurdly high so that the secondary skill at 60% isn't too terrible.

Then you may have to spend AP swapping between those weapons, carry them around everywhere, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I can easily see uses for it; but they're all going to be some kind of highly specific cheese strat, because otherwise the sacrifices aren't worth it.

A usable Versatility would cost you one feat, and you have to choose your additional weapon skill, but the secondary weapon skill could be partially invested in to bring it from 60% up to 80% of the primary's stats. Also, you get to pick two (yes, two) additional feats, packaged into Versatility and drawn exclusively from a pool of feats directly related to that secondary weapon skill (prereqs still apply).

Only then would it be worth burning a feat and some skill points in order to have an inferior alternative weapon option. Because then, you see, it would still be a FUNCTIONAL inferior weapon option, instead of a weak and imprecise feat black hole.

I'll be pumping melee alongside throwing, no sense not to, given the maxed dexterity.

It all depends on the weapon, energy pistols got pretty good lately, some might say overpowered when it comes to crit damage bonus, and just 10 points in Guns gets you Aimed Shot.
Started playing and tbh I already got Versatility and Aimed Shot out of the way, because there are no interesting feats at level 1-4 for a throwing knife build anyway, and Hard Classic means I can have fun and don't need to minmax.

Hardest dialogue choice in the entire game.

 

[Blaine]

By far the most pressing issue with dual-wielding one-handed guns and blades and stacking DEX (which seems to be what most people use Versatility for) is—aside from the other downsides of Versatility that I covered at length—the fact that you only get but so much AP per turn.

Still, I can't argue with not min-maxing too hard. If you're not on Dominating, your build doesn't have to be absurd, which is why I felt quite comfortable dropping the Temporal Manip Cheese Dip from that build.

 

[Sykar]

Here's how I would fix the Psi nerf so that it's less obnoxious.

First of all, Psycho-neural Optimization would be removed. Instead of having to waste a feat in order to gain a -10% psi cost bonus, the bonus would be granted AUTOMATICALLY if a player innervates only one school.

That bonus goes away if the player innervates two schools. Innervating three schools incurs a 10% psi cost increase, while innervating all four incurs a 20% or perhaps 25% psi cost increase. Psycho-neural Flexibility can remain, but will be optional rather than being a near-mandatory feat suck as Styg quite obviously and obnoxiously intended it to be.

Available slots are 3 + (INT/2). That way, a character with 6-7 INT (say, someone with 7 INT for the crafting feats) will have six slots—absurdly restrictive, but not as restrictive as 5. The slot gained by the Psi Circuit Extension component would be totally separate from the "brain diagram" and occupy a slot in the UI off to one side of the brain diagram. This allows for a total of 8 slots with 10 INT (absurdly high for a secondary pump base attribute), 9 with Psi Circuit Extension.

The main thing that Styg ignored when arguing that other builds generally require pumping two base attributes (which isn't even true) is that being a do-it-all Psi wizard requires a massive, absolutely titantic skill points investment. Probably he had in mind builds that include Dodge and Evasion, which are terrible skills that should never be used by anyone for any reason, except perhaps for access to Uncanny Dodge.

I still honor and revere Styg for creating Underrail, don't get me wrong. But his "balancing" and turbo-nerfs do get on my nerves. Wizards are supposed to become absurdly powerful past midgame, dude. Trying to Fun Police it because it's too stronk is just annoying.

While nice it still does not fix the problem with now niche PSI abilities not being worth innervating. Also having to constantly smoke shrooms everytime you change your loadout is plain retarded. Imagine losing all your ammo in your gun when you switch ammo types.

 

[jungl]

I never tried versality out. But I imagine on normal mode its a solid feat if you are say a low mobility psi or melee user and you want to conserve psi or have alternative to killing distant enemies. On hard mode though I bet this feat probably shit cause its not squeezing out enough damage to be worth.

 

[Ol' Willy]

On hard mode though I bet this feat probably shit cause its not squeezing out enough damage to be worth.

Point A: there's enough damage if you go SI way
Point B: the sheer amount of options in combat. You have melee, guns and throwing all quite high

Stop badmouthing versatility, people. It's great

 

[Ent]

I'm liking the pistol buffs. Made two characters and got them through to the mid game so far: A no gun-fu using 10 perception, 10 dex gunslinger that basically goes around ambushing people to death and a Gorsky-wannabe full armor strength gun-fu user which is surprisingly satisfying.

 

[Parabalus]

On hard mode though I bet this feat probably shit cause its not squeezing out enough damage to be worth.

Point A: there's enough damage if you go SI way
Point B: the sheer amount of options in combat. You have melee, guns and throwing all quite high

Stop badmouthing versatility, people. It's great

You can just use exclusively guns, don't need to touch the melee. Feels like a 'waste' but you're getting the absurd AP reduction from max DEX. Be sure to use chemical pistols though.

Braindead build for cruising through DOM.

 

[lukaszek]

Stop badmouthing versatility, people. It's great

with versatility being all the rage for past months in here and a bunch of us showing dominating builds I am indeed scratching my head as of why its viewed as bad

So what are the basics on throwing knives anyway? DEX and throwing is obvious enough, but I'm more curious about feats and crafting, it doesn't seem that stuff like Expertise will help, or any of the crafting feats. I guess you'll be wanting Hypertoxicity.

dont pick expertise. Throwing knives synergize with crit. You do want that 5 WILL for ripper, just like knifer builds. In general there are quite a few synergies between knives and throwing knives.
From non obvious you want to pair it with sneak. Replacing knives is tedious, they do weight a bit, you want to avoid trash fights to conserve your resources. If you go pure knife throwing you will find yourself out of feats to pick around lvl 16 or so. Also they are not very versatile as armored opponents will wreck you. Part of reason why they were often viewed as hardest to finish game with.
You wont be using hypertoxicity often, yet it is nice feat to grab for few bosses.
You want opportunist to synergize with pinning. Also grenade feats like grenadier and 3 pointer.
You will pump all the crafting skills so do consider having decent INT. You will be movement starved. Do consider decent AGI, sprint, perhaps even blitz.

 

[Sykar]

Anyway, yours seems like a reasonably solid build. I'd probably change it thusly (also, not all skill points had been spent):

https://underrail.info/build/?HgUEB...CfjNLwoVTKcKHwojCpMK1wq0rKOKnvgrir7wE4q-9Ad-_

Interloper is an absolute waste. Take the point off Agi and put it in Dex and get Strafe. Strafe+Spearhead means that you will not need an offhand/close range weapon anymore. Also get Stasis and EK imprint, they will be your main defensive tools. You Stasis yourself while everybody wastes shit including their Adrenaline turns on you and then you wake up from stasis and act immediately. It's absurdly strong.

I am close to wrapping up my Dom Sniper with this variation of jackofshadows build and it feels perfect. Early game is rough but go get the AR from Passages and use Rathound barbecue to weild it properly.

 

[Ol' Willy]

You can just use exclusively guns, don't need to touch the melee.

Melee is:

- good for stealth kills
- Expose Weakness
- some useful buff feats like Taste for Blood and Vile Weaponry
- inflict bleeding if you use serrated knives
- free contamination if you use Claw
- stuns from Cheap Shots
- conserves ammo which is very useful when you use .44 Hammerer
- overall very good against soft targets
- way cheaper in AP cost
- mostly ignores shield
- makes early game way easier

You can go without melee, but why making it harder? And since you will be denied most gun related feats it makes sense to pick some knifer ones

 

[CHEMS]

On hard mode though I bet this feat probably shit cause its not squeezing out enough damage to be worth.

Point A: there's enough damage if you go SI way
Point B: the sheer amount of options in combat. You have melee, guns and throwing all quite high

Stop badmouthing versatility, people. It's great

My fave build is versatility SI chemical pistols with throwing. It's DA BEST. Lobbing critical blobs of acid, burning and panicking your enemies while they take 200+ damage per turn while running and firing 20 times per round is amazing.

 

[Parabalus]

You can just use exclusively guns, don't need to touch the melee.

Melee is:

- good for stealth kills
- Expose Weakness
- some useful buff feats like Taste for Blood and Vile Weaponry
- inflict bleeding if you use serrated knives
- free contamination if you use Claw
- stuns from Cheap Shots
- conserves ammo which is very useful when you use .44 Hammerer
- overall very good against soft targets
- way cheaper in AP cost
- mostly ignores shield
- makes early game way easier

You can go without melee, but why making it harder? And since you will be denied most gun related feats it makes sense to pick some knifer ones

Ofc you can, but you don't even need to since you have access to all energy/chemical/normal gun varieties.

 

[ciox]

Stop badmouthing versatility, people. It's great

with versatility being all the rage for past months in here and a bunch of us showing dominating builds I am indeed scratching my head as of why its viewed as bad

So what are the basics on throwing knives anyway? DEX and throwing is obvious enough, but I'm more curious about feats and crafting, it doesn't seem that stuff like Expertise will help, or any of the crafting feats. I guess you'll be wanting Hypertoxicity.

dont pick expertise. Throwing knives synergize with crit. You do want that 5 WILL for ripper, just like knifer builds. In general there are quite a few synergies between knives and throwing knives.
From non obvious you want to pair it with sneak. Replacing knives is tedious, they do weight a bit, you want to avoid trash fights to conserve your resources. If you go pure knife throwing you will find yourself out of feats to pick around lvl 16 or so. Also they are not very versatile as armored opponents will wreck you. Part of reason why they were often viewed as hardest to finish game with.
You wont be using hypertoxicity often, yet it is nice feat to grab for few bosses.
You want opportunist to synergize with pinning. Also grenade feats like grenadier and 3 pointer.
You will pump all the crafting skills so do consider having decent INT. You will be movement starved. Do consider decent AGI, sprint, perhaps even blitz.

Nice insight, thanks. I'll be applying some of this tho I don't think I need to change this char's attributes, just look at the skills and feats a bit.
Most interesting part will be seeing how well the energy pistols get integrated later on.

 

[Fenix]

Pointy ends and blunt ends diss, like that in Gulliver.

 

[Sweeper]

Expose Weakness

You really don't need it if you're using pistols.
Cut-Throat is pretty fucking amazing though.

 

[Black Angel]

Just came back to Core City and there was a small earthquake! Kinda strange since i killed the terrorists already. Here's their belt i took as a trophy. When you activate the bombs, your character goes "BOOOOOOM!" or "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA", really funny

Master Demolitionist in action

 

[CHEMS]

Hit a Free Drone with a throwing knife for 470 damage :D

Remote Surgeon FTW

 

[Sweeper]

Hit a Free Drone with a throwing knife for 470 damage :D

Remote Surgeon FTW

DEATH TO THE PROTECTORATE!

 

[CHEMS]

Sorry, i needed their loot so i could by this sweet 164Q acid collector that Consantine had to sell. I also bought a 159Q fire collector from him. Finally RNG Jesus allowing me to buy good stuff that is actually useful for my run

 

[Sheepherder]

That's true, but I'll be giving a versatility build a shot I think, like throwing and energy pistols with full focus on DEX.

Do you mean Versatility with a capital V? Because Versatility doesn't affect Throwing. If it did, it would allow us all to spend a feat in order to save 80ish skill points and have even higher effective Throwing than we otherwise would.

Versatility is such a laughable feat. For one thing, all combat skills in this game must be loaded down with feats in order to be viable. In order to use Versatility, you first waste a feat on it, then likely waste at least one or two additional feats in order to make that less precise, less damaging weapon skill worth a damn. You then most probably pump your primary skill's stat even more absurdly high so that the secondary skill at 60% isn't too terrible.

Then you may have to spend AP swapping between those weapons, carry them around everywhere, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I can easily see uses for it; but they're all going to be some kind of highly specific cheese strat, because otherwise the sacrifices aren't worth it.

A usable Versatility would cost you one feat, and you have to choose your additional weapon skill, but the secondary weapon skill could be partially invested in to bring it from 60% up to 80% of the primary's stats. Also, you get to pick two (yes, two) additional feats, packaged into Versatility and drawn exclusively from a pool of feats directly related to that secondary weapon skill (prereqs still apply).

Only then would it be worth burning a feat and some skill points in order to have an inferior alternative weapon option. Because then, you see, it would still be a FUNCTIONAL inferior weapon option, instead of a weak and imprecise feat black hole.

How is Versatility laughable? It allows you to eliminate a stat from the 2 or 3 stat weapons, allowing to get other stuff. How is that a sacrifice? For example Chemical Pistols and Energy Pistols do more damage per turn with Versatility than they do with PER. Also SMGs are definitely better with Vers. Mechanical pistols post patch are about the same as a PER build. Using high DEX and leveling Melee, to replace Guns is hardly a "cheese strat".

 

[jackofshadows]

My fave build is versatility SI chemical pistols with throwing. It's DA BEST.

Care to share it? Preferably in this thread to revive it a little even if we're talking builds here anyway. Thinking for a while to try something like chem or energy pistols / vers / maybe + melee (DOM).

 

[lukaszek]

energy pistols

sadly my dominating versatile lazor post got nuked, managed only to recover somehting from planning notes:
https://underrail.info/build/?GAMQB...MjClAAAAAAAABLGsKjMR0WBhNcAEvCmlrChTzita4J378
I used both melee and ranged fluidly through the game on dom.

 

[Parabalus]

What are these Tattoos that popped up in the builder?