KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[Terenty]

Lizard people language was their priority apparently

 

[Katana1000S]

Lizard people language was their priority apparently

Another one of their hook and bait lies.

 

[Max Heap]

Lizard people language was their priority apparently

That would have required the game to feature dialogues in the first place.

 

[agris]

Max Heap I would not be surprised to see some elements of that 2015 video in their Ultima Overlord VR game, for which a lot of UA's resources (time, money, personnel) were siphoned away.

I don't think this game has been in development for four years, I think it was under two. I think it was made in ~18 - 24 months of development by a group of people inexperienced with the engine and framework they were working with.

Lets look at some facts.

• The UA Kickstarter concluded early March of 2015
  
• Underworld Overlord (their VR game in the UA universe) was released ~18 months after the KS, in December 2016 (link)
  
• So from the release of UOverlord to Nov 15th, you're looking at less than two years, making it ~23 months from the release of UO

I suspect that the KS funds and resulting press coverage were leveraged to develop a prototype of Underworld Overlord, their VR game, to pitch to publishers. See: Nightdive's SS1 as another example of this business model. These VR projects are usually heavily subsidized by the publisher, Google and partners in this (Otherside's) case, so that funding was used to start the real development of UA with anticipated Overlord sales also contributing resources. See: inXile's Mage Tale / BT4 development for another example of this business model. Of course, VR hasn't taken off, and the revenue that was anticipated, and thus funds budgeted, to support UA's development did not materialize.

So there you have it, probably two years-ish of underfunded development.

That being said, I'm sure they were following the inXile model and trying to develop assets and pipelines that were as applicable to both games as possible, and I'm sure there was some work done on UA during 2015 - 2016, but Overlord didn't make itself - it took man hours, attention and focus. And It was made by the Boston team.


As an addendum for the skeptical, when I say there wasn't four years devoted to development, I fully recognize that there were feature and art tests made, likely on a part-time basis by a subset of Otherside Boston. I believe there was a token amount of pre-production / thumb-twiddling happening for the first two years, well represented by them asking the community for help designing the lizard-man language, only to have the dialogue system dropped entirely. That's the process and product of dilettantes.

 

[kaisergeddon]

What? They're making some VR boondoggle now?? Why don't these developers just make mobile games if they're this pathetic? It would take less time and effort and make them more money than stringing up the skin of a beloved series like a meat puppet and dangling it in front of emotionally worn crpg enthusiasts.

 

[agris]

learn2read

 

[kaisergeddon]

Yeah, my bad, but I'm just skimming that shit, I can't waste any effort on these retards

 

[Eli_Havelock]

It's not wasted when you're laughing.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.otherside.underworldoverlord

Installs: 1,000+
(<5k installs)

The studio's management actually thought a $5 "VR" TD game would sell enough to get them more money above what Google already wasted on them.

If you couldn't already tell just by the link, this isn't VR as the industry commonly refers to. Prepare yourself...

Underworld Overlord is available for Daydream, Google's high quality, mobile VR platform. You must have a Daydream Ready device, Daydream View and Daydream Controller to play Underworld Overlord.

"high quality":

Compared to what, exactly? A disc Viewmaster? The original models of those still work, while this shit is now broken to anyone who bought it and upgraded their phone.

 

[MasterLobar]

Watching Ultima Underworld footage every now and then this video keeps popping up in my recommendations :

Funny that the player could hold a torch in this "playable prototype", but the game didn't have a player-based light source when it launched in November 2018. Does anyone believe a "playable prototype" really existed at that time??

This is clearly an embellished BS teaser they made to attract publisher interest just like the BS teaser they recently released for SS3.

And no one wanted to do it until finally in 2017, some idiots at 505 Games agreed to give them some money to make a low ambition game, not knowing they were too incompetent to deliver even that.

And now they are trying the same thing to attract SS3 publishers.

 

[zapotec]

what if they paid another company to do the demo

 

[MasterLobar]

zapotec Good point, that may be the answer to Max Heap's question why they didn't use any of this in the game. They were not allowed to. Like they also didn't use the music. It was all fake. They had none of what they claimed they have.

 

[kaisergeddon]

It's not wasted when you're laughing.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.otherside.underworldoverlord

Installs: 1,000+
(<5k installs)

The studio's management actually thought a $5 "VR" TD game would sell enough to get them more money above what Google already wasted on them.

If you couldn't already tell just by the link, this isn't VR as the industry commonly refers to. Prepare yourself...

Underworld Overlord is available for Daydream, Google's high quality, mobile VR platform. You must have a Daydream Ready device, Daydream View and Daydream Controller to play Underworld Overlord.

"high quality":

Compared to what, exactly? A disc Viewmaster? The original models of those still work, while this shit is now broken to anyone who bought it and upgraded their phone.

So that's affordable VR? I don't even know how to express the lunacy of that, from the engineering to the fabrication, the idea of people actually buying it, and Google subsidizing it all. Well, since we're here in late stage capitalism, I got some "high quality" affordable horses I can sell Google and OtherSide Entertainment:

 

[Eli_Havelock]

They were not allowed to. Like they also didn't use the music. It was all fake. They had none of what they claimed they have.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/othersidegames/underworld-ascendant/faqs

Is this a “spiritual successor” to Ultima Underworld? Is it Ultima Underworld 3? Or what?
Underworld Ascendant is a genuine part of the Underworld series. We have the rights to use all of the elements of the original Underworld games, except for the Ultima brand itself. The characters, monsters, settings, and stories from the original Underworld games are all available for us.

 

[MasterLobar]

Eli_Havelock

"Digging this out of our legal docs: EA retained all rights to the Ultima world/fiction and we may not use any distinctive fictional elements that come from the classic Ultima series or are not unique to the Underworld series."

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/is-there-any-of-the-old-lore-left/9467/17

 

[Eli_Havelock]

I'm sure it just honestly slipped their mind while drawing up the KS. Right along with the whole open world bit... then lo and behold the first producer shit out the now-infamous excuse post. Then Paul Neurath's non-apology letter. Then Warren Spector does the same nonstop for press quotes, while lying about the health of the company (after having said the opposite for an excuse for why UA was shit). Whole thing was a lie except for there being a dungeon involved.

Bonus funny I managed to archive a while back:

https://web.archive.org/web/2015030...orldascendant.com:80/the-game/dev-updates.php

Blog Post by Paul Neurath - March 1, 2015

Time to Trash Talk Kickstarted Games?

A series of press stories were circulated widely the past week which, more-or-less, trash talk games that have been funded through Kickstarter.

One example, from an Ars Technica story: "You don't need to be a serial, pie-in-the-sky over-promiser like Peter Molyneux for your crowdfunding dreams to outpace your funding and timing realities. When it comes to Kickstarter, everyone is Peter Molyneux, and the backers are the ones enabling their often unachievable dreams."

I have no knowledge of the Godus game Peter Molyneux Kickstarted, so I can't speak to that particular project. Here's what I do know. Claiming everyone doing a Kickstarter funded game is "...over promising and failing to deliver..." is more than just gross exaggeration. It's a cheap shot. Moreover, it's being made under the guise of what seems to be some sort of public service notice. As if warning fans that most Kickstarter-funded games projects are scams.

Games are much like any other creative endeavor. Any film or book can come up short on expectations. Happens often enough. More than a few are cancelled by their studios or publishers before they see the light of day. Does that mean that most film makers and writers are out to scam their fans?

The Kickstarter game campaigns I've looked at are careful to call out that game development entails certain risks. That the project might get delayed, or features change, or get cut. These same risks face games not funded through Kickstarter. Plenty of publisher-funded games fall short of expectations; more than a few get cancelled.

Risks aside, the fact is that a bunch of really good games have been Kickstarted. Wasteland II, Shovel Knight, Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin and Faster than Light to name just some. And more are on their way. It happens to be a wonderful way for fans to support indie games they want to see made. Particularly since these are often the same creative games that might otherwise struggle to get funded through traditional sources.

I have a unique perspective to bring to this debate. I founded LookingGlass, which developed games such as Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Terra Nova and Thief. During those years we struggled at times to get our game concepts funded by the established game publishers. We were not shy to take creative risks, such as doing a first-person stealth game, which at the time was an unproven concept. Being innovative tended to make it harder to get traction with game publishers.

It is with that perspective that I decided to Kickstart the first game at our new studio, a reboot of the classic Ultima Underworld franchise. We decided to reach out directly to our fans for funding. Our hope is that fans will share our vision and passion, and help us to see the game be made.

As was true at Looking Glass, we are committed to delivering on our vision. Looking Glass never bailed from a project that we had under production. The few projects that failed to reach completion had the plug pulled by folks outside of our studio, without our having a say in the decision. Let me also note that for each game we put into production, in addition to whatever is crowd funded, we are setting aside from our studio's own funds a minimum of two hundred thousand dollars as a reserve to cover contingencies. It's one measure of our commitment to deliver.

With crowd-sourced funding, we are no longer at the mercy of some outside executive to pass judgment on the worthiness of our projects. Of greater value, crowd funding is an effective way to engage the fans early on, to confirm that our vision is striking a chord. Further into development, we also have the advantage of an active audience who can help us better tune the experience that works great for them.

Indie studios pump new lifeblood into the industry, and the fans have the loudest voice in offering their support. Let not the rhetoric of crying wolf silence the fan's voices.

Then after that there's some entertaining napkin scribbles by Joe Fielder.

It's really inspiring working with designers as talented as Paul, Tim, and Scott. Looking Glass Studios' Ultima Underworld 1 + 2, System Shock, and Thief 1 + 2 helped create immersive sandbox gameplay and now they intend to push it to its next level with Underworld Ascendant. It's going to be something new and different, unlike anything you've ever played before. Creating a narrative that does it justice will be an incredibly fun challenge.

You're going to take an active hand in altering a dynamic underworld ecology, so you'll constantly be either averting or contributing to disaster. It's your choice. You drive the narrative.

Werner Herzog once said, "The common denominator of the universe is not harmony, but chaos, hostility, and murder." That's a bit dark, but clearly true in The Stygian Abyss. It's one of the most hostile environments possible. And yet Cabirus attempted to build it into a utopia, one of the most optimistic goals imaginable.

Will you decide to follow his example? Or stoke the flames of war?

It'll be our job to craft the story to react to your decisions, immerse in the world, compel you to discover all the amazing things you can do, and goad you to play further.

We'll also be working hard to ensure Underworld Ascendant retains its deep dark dungeon fantasy feel, but in a fresh, original way that's all its own. Part of that means coming up with takes on races that are different from what you've seen elsewhere.

For instance, the Dwarves in Underworld Ascendant are true mountain folk: rugged frontier types who are smart and wary, like early pioneers like Kit Carson mixed with HBO's Deadwood and Jack London's White Fang. They feel a distinct sense of ownership over the Underworld since they erected much of its infrastructure and see the other intelligent races as freeloaders, at best.

Meanwhile, the Shamblers are a fungal society, an alien hive mind who view The Stygian Abyss as a complete ecosystem... which would thrive under its direct care. The Dark Elves are obsessed with attaining mental and physical perfection, like a mix of Spartan warriors and social Darwinists. They're fiercely independent, rankle at what they perceive as The Shamblers' controlling influence, and like to pick fights with the Dwarves simply to test their mettle.

As in the original Ultima Underworld games, no race has a set alignment. Each faction has its own unique worldview and valid reasons for their actions. They're headed for conflict and, likely, tragedy.

As you've likely heard, voice actors Terri Brosius and Stephen Russell will be lending their considerable talents to the game. I'm in awe at the prospect of getting to write for the two of them. It'll be a tough challenge to create characters who are as memorable as System Shock's SHODAN and Thief's Garrett, but, likewise, incredibly fun.

I guess that's only fitting, though. As you'll soon see for yourselves, "challenging and fun" is pretty much a consistent theme throughout Underworld Ascendant.

We might just have the makings of a modern classic on our hands. Sincere thanks for your help in making it happen.

 

[Nano]

I'm sure it just honestly slipped their mind while drawing up the KS.

The two quotes don't contradict each other. The former says what they can use (Ultima Underworld lore/characters), the latter says what can't be used (anything Ultima-related that wasn't created specifically in the Underworld games).

 

[Eli_Havelock]

The two quotes don't contradict each other. The former says what they can use (Ultima Underworld lore/characters), the latter says what can't be used (anything Ultima-related that wasn't created specifically in the Underworld games).

Read it again, carefully. One sets the scope of everything but the Ultima brand itself, the other says they can only use the bits unique to UU.

 

[agris]

Wait... are there dwarves in UA? That Fielder quote sure as hell sounds like they planned on them.

 

[MasterLobar]

Nano, the quotes clearly contradict each other. In the KS, they said, they can use all monsters that were in UU. Later, they admitted, they are not allowed to use e.g., the headless.

"Headless were introduced before UW1, and then were briefly seen in The Stygian Abyss as a result, so they’re off limits."

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/if-sekiro-just-launched-with-a-miniboss-called-headless/10033/2

agris, in the KS, they promised that there would be "dark dwarves, "elves", "shamblers" and that you would meet and interact with these factions in various interconnected ways.



One month before launch, they admitted that they lied:

"the factions are represented by mediators. You will not see dwarves elves or shamblers in the game."

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/re-recent-backer-beta-feedback/9680/19

"Represented via mediators" literally means an NPC (I think Aelita or Resherak) telling you "The dwarves are pissed" because you didn't bring them a certain item or kill a certain enemy for them. That results in the dwarves not helping you prevent Typhon from destroying the abyss (and thereby the dwarves themselves), because, hey, they really wanted that item, you know.

 

[Max Heap]

I believe the last version of the game actually features a shambler you have to rescue (?) - too bad it's hard to verify this without playing the game, since there are barely any let's play videos on Underworld Ascendant.

Speaking of videos: God, all those old dev diaries...

Good thing they had this discussion:



In the end they took the diplomatic approach and just dropped both...

 

[Nyast]

The good 'ol time when we were still praying that they had a secret dev build ( which they mislead us into believing ), cause the alpha was so bad that... "that can't be it", I remember thinking. No way the creators of one of my favorite franchises could make something that horrible, no way. Wishful thinking.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

I seem to recall an OSE employee (probably gone now) stating how they were playing an in-house SS3 build. Totally believable at this point!

 

[rbenchley]

I seem to recall an OSE employee (probably gone now) stating how they were playing an in-house SS3 build. Totally believable at this point!

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a vertical slice to test out game mechanics and whatnot. Nothing close to being feature complete or having all of the world built out, but a section or two that they can run though for testing purposes/demonstrations for potential publishers is pretty believable. Unless Warren can conjure up a miracle, I doubt we're ever going to see a finished product, but I don't have a problem accepting that the game is to a certain extent, "playable".

 

[Eli_Havelock]

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a vertical slice to test out game mechanics and whatnot. Nothing close to being feature complete or having all of the world built out, but a section or two that they can run though for testing purposes/demonstrations for potential publishers is pretty believable. Unless Warren can conjure up a miracle, I doubt we're ever going to see a finished product, but I don't have a problem accepting that the game is to a certain extent, "playable".

Mockups to lure backer/publisher money aren't really development builds.

We should know this by now when even bigger frauds do the same.

 

[LESS T_T]

At least he finally landed a new job:



It's a fairly big studio with over 20 years of history. Originally called Idol Minds, recently worked on Life is Strange spinoff. (Don't be confused with Deck 13.)

Apparently they're working on another game with Square Enix. (It would be funny if it's Thi5f. Likely not, because the studio's focus is apparently narrative-driven games.)