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KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by BEvers, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
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    Average programmer on the US costs 85000 dollars on a year of work, even if they cut corners and hired a bunch of mexicans, if those mexicans work on the US, they will still cost alot even if a bit less than a decent programmer and they might not have been worthy anyway as a bad programmer is worse than no programmer at all. Those 900.000 dollars they got was enough to pay 8 people working on a project for 1 year, assuming zero other costs (not realistic at all) just to simplify things and 8 cheap mexicans may not be worth 2 decent experienced programmers.

    Even assuming they got enough money from a publisher for one more year of development, 2 years of work for 8 or so people working full time, not counting temporary contributors, they didn't have what it took and or should have re-scoped the project o be realistic on 2 years of work for 8 or so people or do game development outside the US (what brings alot of other challenges).

    Here on Brazil, a programmer costs more or less 12000 dollars a year, of course, the biggest challenge is to find people with experience on video games as our gaming industry is really, really small and Brazil is definitely a third world country with all the nice third world problems but it could be done but that would mean 2 years very far from home but the end result would be a really nice Ultima Underworld 3, probably a very buggy Ultima Underworld 3 but at least not the joke that Underwolrd ascendant was. I bet Bulgaria is as cheap if not more cheap than Brazil, Ukraine too, the average monthly wage on Estonia is 1500,00 euros (could be wrong, didn't research alot on this so take it with a grain of salt) and with access to first world luxuries. I have no doubt that CD Projekt wouldn't be able to do Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 on the US.

    Sorry guise, the reality is that Owlbear delivered the massive incline that Pathfinder was because of ruskies wages and Phoenix Point is moving well because of eastern europe wages, if the developer was promising the moon and the sky but planned to do all this comfortably on California and didn't get millions and millions of dollars to pay the astronomical californian costs, he was a fool, an idiot, an irresponsible or a charlatan, on any case, shouldn't be trusted with money.
     
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  2. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
    Joined:
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    you spelled “Not enough Mexicans, that’s the problem” wrong.

    FTFY tho. Love you <3
     
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  3. Theldaran Liturgist

    Theldaran
    Joined:
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    1,722
    Ukraine is soon-to-be Russia oblast, and on martial law right now, not a very good place to do business.

    I really hope that the corrupt AAA and big-company Berlin Wall falls finally, and indies and AA companies replace that festering corpse once and for all. Then again, in a few years they'd grow to be fat cats too and the cycle would repeat (though CDPR is keeping their promises so far).
     
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  4. Nyast Arbiter

    Nyast
    Joined:
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    Considering the game that we got, it's doubtful that they had more than 2, top 3 programmers working on this. The rest of the team are probably artists, which have a lower average salary. Of course that doesn't change the equation all that much in the end, they still lacked the budget to do a decent Underworld 3, no matter how many programmers vs artists they have in the team.
     
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  5. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
    Joined:
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    Codex 2014
    A message by Paul Neurath, a kinda apology and postmortem explaining how they took creative risks, some "retconing", funding problems, and their mistakes.: https://otherside-e.com/wp/underworld-ascendant-where-were-headed-how-we-got-here/

    :avatard:
     
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  6. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    • When words are not enough When words are not enough x 2
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  7. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
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    Messages:
    86,252
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    FFS WHY DIDN'T YOU CANCEL THE GAME :despair: Very similar to what I thought happened: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ant-is-a-disaster.124859/page-22#post-5887836
     
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  8. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    Because then they'd have to refund kickstarter money?
    I remember there were some recent court cases where the vaporware devs were compelled to do that.
     
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  9. Zep Zepo Titties and Beer Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual

    Zep Zepo
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
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    5,218
    And they didn't come clean with this info that they lost a major funding partner.

    Continued to bullshit the backers for 2 or 3 years.

    Then throw out some worthless piece of shit of a "game" like the failures they are.

    This shit gets better and better they more they open their mouths and try to apologize.

    I am laughing every time they try to do some hand waving.

    Paraphrased "We never exactly said we were making an Underworld game..."

    WTF? It's right there in the name of the game you stupid dipshits! Are you lying to us or to yourselves? Because we're not falling for it.

    Zep--
     
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  10. Glic2000 Educated

    Glic2000
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
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    80
    Yeah, the fact that they were shopping the game around to a publisher (and failing to find one) was never mentioned at all to the KS backers. That should have been mentioned right up front in the Kickstarter; not doing so is very deceptive. There is an understanding with Kickstarter that the creator is trying to raise the amount of money needed to finish the project, not just get the ball barely rolling.

    Likewise, I would've been fine if the game wasn't a sequel to Ultima Underworld, if it at least did more or less what was described in the KS. But they didn't do any of that either!
     
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  11. Glic2000 Educated

    Glic2000
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    I mean, making a bad game is one thing, but lying about every aspect of the game's development before/during/after its crowdfunding phase is unforgivable.
     
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  12. Zep Zepo Titties and Beer Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual

    Zep Zepo
    Joined:
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    Built on lies. Just like the "TOTALLY NOT SCRIPTED GAIS!" Shadow Beast demo (It was totally scripted).

    Zep--
     
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  13. Space Nugget Guest

    Space Nugget
    Are they fucking serious right now? Excusing their shortcomings as if all of that was intended all along - basically telling us now that they were "moving the genre forward" by going backwards? Gimme a break. I was disappointed with the game (I should've known better: the updates and progress throughout the years and months were very telling), but this OtherSide post mortem-of sorts actually makes me angry. Underworld Ascendant is a broken mess, insultingly unplayable, and no amount of polish will amend the deeply flawed and appalling design decisions.

    Also, kinda weird that two of 2018's game release bombs were led by Looking Glass veterans. The other one being DumpsterFire 76 (Emil Pagliarulo was/is the Design Director).

    Show Spoiler
    ZEP ZEPO WAS RIGHT!
     
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  14. Curratum Magister

    Curratum
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  15. Space Nugget Guest

    Space Nugget


    Oh hey, it's Chris and Tim! :salute:

    Show Spoiler
    Can't wait for a spiritual sucessor of that... :incline:
     
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  16. TheImplodingVoice Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    TheImplodingVoice
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    Beaners manage to be a nuisance or a hindrance in all walks of life.
     
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  17. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
    Joined:
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    :lol: He really buried the lede there

    "We made the game like this ON PURPOSE (also we were expecting to have a lot more money...)"
     
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  18. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
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    Messages:
    86,252
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
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  19. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    This game is a reminder that you need programmers more than anything to make a good game.
     
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  20. Zep Zepo Titties and Beer Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual

    Zep Zepo
    Joined:
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    And top tier programmers at that.

    Does that horse teethed jr. programmer they hired have any pedigree at all in games programming?

    Zep--
     
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  21. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    Well, you use the kind of programmer you need for the game you want. No way you are going to make Thief with California level programmers, for example. But you can make Outer Worlds. :troll:
     
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  22. Nyast Arbiter

    Nyast
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    592
    I'm borderline treating this as a scam now.

    I can't get over the fact they knew from the start they didn't have the budget to deliver their Kickstarter and never bothered informing anybody until now.

    I'm ready to forgive honest mistakes, even some incompetence, but this is just another level of deceptive practises.

    "Oooops sorry guys, that you had to discover that in the postmortem, that we never had the budget to produce the game we described on Kickstarter. Honest mistake. Now let's get back to work on System Shock 3 ! We've learned from our mistakes ! Honest !"
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  23. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
    Joined:
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    5,978
    Underworld Ascendant Cutpurse: The Lethean Depths

    If only they hadn't completely botched it. :M
     
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  24. BEvers I'm forever blowing

    BEvers
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
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    Another dev post:

     
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  25. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Nano
    Joined:
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    2,575
    I dunno why they're bothering. I'm assuming post-release support was included in some contract or whatever.
     
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