KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[ShaggyMoose]

At least they did something about the atrocious save system.

 

[Sinatar]

Funny that all through alpha and beta when backers were bitching about the save system they literally said it would be "impossible" to change it.

 

[Zakhad]

It's almost like they think the game is... saveable? (Pun entirely accidental).

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Funny that all through alpha and beta when backers were bitching about the save system they literally said it would be "impossible" to change it.

That is a standard developer response. When i get an RFC that is more than a quick fix and somewhat complex, i sometimes use 'impossible' or equivalents. I request some time to thoroughly analyze the problem and after that report that, while requiring near superhuman (or Neanderthal if you prefer) intellect and programming prowess, it can actually be done. And who saves the day again? Now can i get that end of year bonus? Thanks alot.

OT, they should have delayed release, do an EA to get some funds and then work on the issues mentioned in the update.

 

[Blaine]

They're putting a brave face on that update, but I have a strong feeling that a lot of those sad sacks will be going from Underworld Ascendant to Unemployed Dependent pretty soon.

 

[taxalot]

They are trying to build a solid basis for the sequel, that's all.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Funny that all through alpha and beta when backers were bitching about the save system they literally said it would be "impossible" to change it.

That is a standard developer response. When i get an RFC that is more than a quick fix and somewhat complex, i sometimes use 'impossible' or equivalents. I request some time to thoroughly analyze the problem and after that report that, while requiring near superhuman (or Neanderthal if you prefer) intellect and programming prowess, it can actually be done. And who saves the day again? Now can i get that end of year bonus? Thanks alot.

OT, they should have delayed release, do an EA to get some funds and then work on the issues mentioned in the update.

that's what interns are for
that and sending them to get you food from a fastfood place 20 miles away

 

[sk2k]

This is so weird: https://otherside-e.com/wp/underworld-ascendant-development-roadmap-december-2018/

"A balance pass on weapon damage and enemy health has been made with an aim to making combat more engaging, particularly in early levels."

What does that mean? Have they lowered weapon damage and upped enemy health? Enemies are already HP sponges.

 

[Big Wrangle]

Can't wait for the Frankenstein experiment that will be Underworld Ascendant: Stygian Edition.
Buy Arx Fatalis

 

[ADL]

I've only played 40 minutes of this but what I played was decent. Is this salvageable with updates? I mean it wasn't offensively bad with the hardware overhead to stablize the awful performance and it's not like there's too many immersive sims being made these days.

 

[Theldaran]

Every Ultima lover bashed the game to death and beyond.

Way to go.

 

[Shackleton]

Can we just hurry up and get to the next page already? Every time I open this thread from alerts the spoiler isn't quick enough and I get the eye bleach of Razortwink sitting there holding his little chipolata.

 

[fantadomat]

Can we just hurry up and get to the next page already? Every time I open this thread from alerts the spoiler isn't quick enough and I get the eye bleach of Razortwink sitting there holding his little chipolata.

Hahaha hate to break it to you,but we are already on the next page,you must be ignoring quite a lot of people to be on the same page as razorcunt and his little saber. Unless you mean the quote.

 

[Shackleton]

I ignore no-one! Not even you, Fanta.

I mean the quote.

 

[Cael]

Every Ultima lover bashed the game to death and beyond.

Way to go.

So, literally:

 

[LESS T_T]

For future references, credits:

 

[karoliner]

Too many mexicans, that's the problem.

 

[Cael]

Too many mexicans, that's the problem.

You should see the HBS game. They even inserted Mexicans into a Scottish-Irish family. An Ana-Maria in a family full of Arthur, Isla, Emma and Naomi.

 

[Theldaran]

Too many mexicans, that's the problem.

 

[Roguey]

Professional Videogame Content Outsourcing Closer to Home. Austin, TX and Monterrey, MX.

Contracting their art to Mexicans working for cheap, guess it had to be done with their budget.

If more game industry chumps lose their jobs to Mexicans, then good, they deserve it.

 

[DeepOcean]

Yeah, no way they could produce the game with the depth and detail he describes in this video with the money they raised, it was all a pipe dream.

Average programmer on the US costs 85000 dollars on a year of work, even if they cut corners and hired a bunch of mexicans, if those mexicans work on the US, they will still cost alot even if a bit less than a decent programmer and they might not have been worthy anyway as a bad programmer is worse than no programmer at all. Those 900.000 dollars they got was enough to pay 8 people working on a project for 1 year, assuming zero other costs (not realistic at all) just to simplify things and 8 cheap mexicans may not be worth 2 decent experienced programmers.

Even assuming they got enough money from a publisher for one more year of development, 2 years of work for 8 or so people working full time, not counting temporary contributors, they didn't have what it took and or should have re-scoped the project o be realistic on 2 years of work for 8 or so people or do game development outside the US (what brings alot of other challenges).

Here on Brazil, a programmer costs more or less 12000 dollars a year, of course, the biggest challenge is to find people with experience on video games as our gaming industry is really, really small and Brazil is definitely a third world country with all the nice third world problems but it could be done but that would mean 2 years very far from home but the end result would be a really nice Ultima Underworld 3, probably a very buggy Ultima Underworld 3 but at least not the joke that Underwolrd ascendant was. I bet Bulgaria is as cheap if not more cheap than Brazil, Ukraine too, the average monthly wage on Estonia is 1500,00 euros (could be wrong, didn't research alot on this so take it with a grain of salt) and with access to first world luxuries. I have no doubt that CD Projekt wouldn't be able to do Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 on the US.

Sorry guise, the reality is that Owlbear delivered the massive incline that Pathfinder was because of ruskies wages and Phoenix Point is moving well because of eastern europe wages, if the developer was promising the moon and the sky but planned to do all this comfortably on California and didn't get millions and millions of dollars to pay the astronomical californian costs, he was a fool, an idiot, an irresponsible or a charlatan, on any case, shouldn't be trusted with money.

 

[Mustawd]

Too many mexicans, that's the problem.

you spelled “Not enough Mexicans, that’s the problem” wrong.

FTFY tho. Love you <3

 

[Theldaran]

Ukraine is soon-to-be Russia oblast, and on martial law right now, not a very good place to do business.

I really hope that the corrupt AAA and big-company Berlin Wall falls finally, and indies and AA companies replace that festering corpse once and for all. Then again, in a few years they'd grow to be fat cats too and the cycle would repeat (though CDPR is keeping their promises so far).

 

[Nyast]

Yeah, no way they could produce the game with the depth and detail he describes in this video with the money they raised, it was all a pipe dream.

Average programmer on the US costs 85000 dollars on a year of work, even if they cut corners and hired a bunch of mexicans, if those mexicans work on the US, they will still cost alot even if a bit less than a decent programmer and they might not have been worthy anyway as a bad programmer is worse than no programmer at all. Those 900.000 dollars they got was enough to pay 8 people working on a project for 1 year, assuming zero other costs (not realistic at all) just to simplify things and 8 cheap mexicans may not be worth 2 decent experienced programmers.

Considering the game that we got, it's doubtful that they had more than 2, top 3 programmers working on this. The rest of the team are probably artists, which have a lower average salary. Of course that doesn't change the equation all that much in the end, they still lacked the budget to do a decent Underworld 3, no matter how many programmers vs artists they have in the team.

 

[LESS T_T]

A message by Paul Neurath, a kinda apology and postmortem explaining how they took creative risks, some "retconing", funding problems, and their mistakes.: https://otherside-e.com/wp/underworld-ascendant-where-were-headed-how-we-got-here/

Underworld Ascendant: Where We’re Headed & How We Got Here

Charitably, the launch of Underworld Ascendant was rough. On release the game was too buggy and shy on polish. We should have done better, and we deeply apologize to our fans for falling short.

It’s also evident some our fans wanted a game that played much closer to the original Ultima Underworld. It’s been painful to hear these players describe how we missed expectations. Although we tried to be clear with press and fans during the development of the game, in hindsight we could have done a better job communicating what Underworld Ascendant was and what it was not.

Despite the game’s flaws at launch, we believe there is a core of goodness to Underworld Ascendant. Our job now is to address the concerns players have expressed and improve the game; making what is good about the game shine through more brightly.

Improving the game starts with listening carefully. We have been soliciting players’ input, making improvements, and listening more. The day after we launched, the team shifted focus to making the game better. We’re fixing bugs, balancing the game further, and rolling in gameplay improvements. One example — shortly we will roll out a robust SAVE GAME feature, something many fans have asked for. We hope you will be patient with us and give Underworld Ascendant the chance to show it can be worthy.

For a look at our development roadmap going into the next few months, click here.

For those interested in understanding how games get made and where things can sometimes get off track, below is a deeper look into how Underworld Ascendant ended up falling short of our expectations at launch.

The OtherSide Team

17 December 2018



The Backstory
To provide some context, understand that the Underworld series is especially close to our hearts. Those of us who worked on the original Ultima Underworld threw ourselves into that game and took some crazy creative risks. When the game launched, we had no sense if players would like it. Turns out they did. That encouraged us to explore the immersive simulation genre further with games such as System Shock, Thief and Deus Ex.

Two decades later, when we had the opportunity to make a game related to the Underworld series, we jumped at the chance with Underworld Ascendant. However, rather than duplicating our past work, we wanted to try to move the genre forward with some new design thinking.

For instance, we ditched the Ultima Underworld scripted conversation trees with NPCs, and instead told the story through a mix of character voiceovers and lore sprinkled about the world as graffiti carved into stone surfaces for the player to uncover — similar to how we used narrative voice overs in Thief and audio logs in System Shock. We also decided not to build an expansive, continuous dungeon to explore. Instead, we built self-contained corners of the dungeon that players would jump to through magic portals. Ultima Underworld II featured an early version of this approach with portals that led to different “worlds”. In Underworld Ascendant we took that further, parceling out quests that would direct you to a primary goal in particular corners of the Abyss.

There are other examples of ways in which, for better or worse, we deviated from the original Underworld model. Sometimes a less-than-warm reception is in part due to experimenting with new design approaches that don’t fit player expectations for the genre. Players may come around to appreciate these design choices in the years following launch. Or not so much. But as a studio, we will continue to take creative risks even with this reality.

This is not the first time we’ve taken creative risks that didn’t all pan out. It’s also worth recalling that some of the innovations we tried in past games were, at least initially, received less than enthusiastically. Ultimately many came to view these games as classics, but some of the early reviews that the original Ultima Underworld and System Shock were less than kind. For instance:

It doesn’t help that Ultima Underworld’s combat is fairly weak. Many fights felt drawn out… with little variation beyond swinging and healing occasionally. Relying on magic has its own annoyances, given that each spell needs to be incanted with several runes.

Those who like to spend hours with a manual to try to figure out to play System Shock, good luck. The rest of us choose to play Doom II instead, where we get what the game promised – full action without hassles.

Taking creative risks is only a part of the story of Underworld Ascendant’s launch. The project faced funding hurdles early in its development. We had lined up a healthy funding commitment with a partner, many-fold more than the Kickstarter funding we later raised. Unfortunately, several months following the Kickstarter our funding partner made a strategic pivot away from the sort of game we were making, resulting in the funding falling through. We had to make do with a fraction of the funding needed to complete our original vision for the game. We did our best to make forward progress with a tiny team. However, it was slow going as we wandered through a development desert for nearly 2 years.

In the summer of 2017, 505 Games stepped up as our publishing partner to help bring the game home. At long-last we were able to step up the pace of our progress. This past Summer we felt confident that we had scoped the game correctly and that we’d be in solid shape for a Fall 2018 launch.

With 20/20 hindsight we were overly optimistic. Part of that came from our prior experiences making immersive simulations, where a lot comes together in the final months. Having a small development team, along with the legacy of an artificially protracted schedule that resulted in relying on now outdated code, ended up impinging on our ability to execute on the same level of progress. In addition, after having worked on the game for more than three years we lost perspective on where Underworld Ascendant stood. We convinced ourselves that the game was in more robust shape than it actually was. Had we been more objective, we would have held off the launch and worked on the game longer. Instead we pushed hard and hit the planned November launch date.

As a consequence, the game went out rougher than it should have. None of the challenges the project faced are an excuse. We should have done better.

Mistakes aside and despite its flaws at launch, we believe Underworld Ascendant has the bones of a truly good game, and we’re now working hard to make the goodness show through much better.