KickStarter Underworld Ascendant is a disaster

[Nano]

Oh my God, no one cares.

 

[BEvers]

Apr 1 Weekly Update! [Not April Fool’s]

Morning everyone! No jokes here, just spreading the news…

So as you all know, we’re working on Update 3 this week and trying to release it as soon as possible. A couple of roadblocks have come in, particularly as we only have 1 week to submit features for Update 4 before we give it 4 weeks of QA time. (Update 4, which I’ve hinted at in previous posts, is meant to include more NPCs, different quest types related to these NPCs, and UI improvements.) “Meant to” is the key word here, since our deadlines are getting tight, and we are trying to align Update 4’s release with the final build we turn over to console.

One of the biggest questions in the office as we work with update 3/4 issues is how to work with what we have.

For example, the issue of swimming has resurfaced again. Our level designer has designed some more puzzle and reward rooms scattered throughout the levels that are meant to be discovered and accessible after lowering the water levels with the EAD. However, because swimming is currently enabled, the player can bypass the EAD usage and skip straight to the reward rooms. We’re trying to figure out what’s the right move here: disabling swimming would make the player feel as if things were taken away from them, even if matches the original design intent. On the other hand, keeping swimming means that players may feel cheated if they actually use the EAD system as intended, and discover that all they had to do was swim under a couple of roadblocks in order to discover rewards.

Currently, we’re leaning towards keeping swimming in. Turning it off would mean we may re-introduce new bugs or trap the player again, but would unfortunately mean we need to figure out how to make the puzzle rooms worth it. etc.

On top of this, we’re really trying to squeeze in some combat changes, including more opportunities for the player to learn about strategies and how to play the game IN-GAME. We’ve noticed a lot of players were unsure how to parry, or how to direct their swings in general, and there have been a lot of proposed improvements to combat that we need to test and act on fast. It’s going to be a tight week, so you may not hear from us while we work on these.

And of course the creatures we’re working on have been chugging along… I’ve shared some images in our private Discord channels, since I don’t want to confirm any work that may not make it into Update 4 at this time. It’s one of our many priorities, and I’d be elated to see these things running around in the Abyss and giving some more variety to the player experience, personally, but scope is always a factor we need to keep a sharp eye on. If we don’t make the deadline for Update 4, that would mean console and PC players would get radically different versions of the game, and we would rather launch just 1 definitive version for both.

I’ll check in on the status of Mac and Linux ports again. I know you’ve all been very patient on this front. Last I checked, we’re aiming to get these out in time with Update 4 as well, if we can, but they’re currently being ported by an external company, so I’m not as familiar with the timeline.

Happy Monday!

 

[MasterLobar]

"If only we had more water for the Lurkers to swim around in"

 

[Morgoth]

Why are they still fixing a game that noone wants to play?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why are they still fixing a game that noone wants to play?

Getting the most out of their loss carryforward on their taxes

 

[MasterLobar]

Why are they still fixing a game that noone wants to play?

Because their publishing deal includes a contractual obligation that they have to make a playable game and a console version. 505 would sue them otherwise.

 

[Morgoth]

I don't envy 505.

 

[MasterLobar]

They decided to back the game at a time when no one knew what a shithole Otherside is.

 

[MasterLobar]

Community manager confirms OS owners/management are paying for UA development and updates since October 2018. So 505 pulled the plug before launch.

In hindsight, it's easy to say that we should have pushed back the launch date. But we had an agreed deadline, were already financing out of budget to push it back from October -> November, etc.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1769259642872066599/#c1769259642883439686

Remember the SEC filing I posted the other day which shows a total of 6 investors (almost certainly OS owners and management) poured $3.5 million in the company last fall. The "Date of First Sale" is 2018-08-31, so almost exactly the point where OS has now confirmed 505 stopped their funding.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1756400/000156761918004482/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

That confirms what I suspected all along: OS owners/management paid for all the updates and the console version (and even the last month of development) themselves,, because 505 would sue them otherwise, because the game is unplayable and the promised console version wasn't delivered.

No money comes from 505 anymore and UA also isn't generating any money. It is not selling at all. On Steam, there isn't even a number for 30-day reviews anymore, because no one is reviewing the game. No reviews, no sales.

Paul Neurath and Warren Spector must be cursing the day they founded this company.

 

[JDR13]

Why are they still fixing a game that noone wants to play?

Speak for yourself. If updates 3 & 4 add as much as 1 & 2 did, we might have a game on our hands.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

It is good game, and deserves some respect from You young fucks , even if it is overhelming crap volcano.

 

[Katana1000S]

It is good game, and deserves some respect from You young fucks , even if it is overhelming crap volcano.

Not sure if serious?

Whats good about it? name one single thing. Its a steaming pile of horse shit at best.

 

[Zakhad]

That confirms what I suspected all along: OS owners/management paid for all the updates and the console version (and even the last month of development) themselves,, because 505 would sue them otherwise, because the game is unplayable and the promised console version wasn't delivered.

Why would they invest personal funds to prevent their company being sued? Does the law where they're based allow directors/staff of a company to be liable for their company's issues? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of an LLC...

 

[Cael]

That confirms what I suspected all along: OS owners/management paid for all the updates and the console version (and even the last month of development) themselves,, because 505 would sue them otherwise, because the game is unplayable and the promised console version wasn't delivered.

Why would they invest personal funds to prevent their company being sued? Does the law where they're based allow directors/staff of a company to be liable for their company's issues? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of an LLC...

In many cucked western countries, the directors and owners are held liable these days.

 

[Atrachasis]

That confirms what I suspected all along: OS owners/management paid for all the updates and the console version (and even the last month of development) themselves,, because 505 would sue them otherwise, because the game is unplayable and the promised console version wasn't delivered.

Why would they invest personal funds to prevent their company being sued? Does the law where they're based allow directors/staff of a company to be liable for their company's issues? Kinda defeats the whole purpose of an LLC...

They may not necessarily be personally liable except in certain cases of misconduct, but if the alternative is bankruptcy, outside investors are balking and bank loans are out of the question, it is quite common for managing owners to give subordinate loans or simply fresh equity capital to their company, even without the threat of a lawsuit from your customers or partners for breach of contract. That is assuming that they actually still believe their studio has a future.

 

[Zakhad]

That is assuming that they actually still believe their studio has a future.

Yeah, but MasterLobar seems to be suggesting that they are doing this to prevent being sued, even though they know their studio has no future... and this makes no sense, as far as I can see.

 

[MasterLobar]

I think Atrachasis is spot on. Zakhad, please note that in the fall of 2018 (when the decision was made), they thought they have a bright future with System Shock 3.

First, it is likely that OS management/owners had to agree to some personal liability in case they can't make a game in order to get the publishing contract with 505, because otherwise 505 would have had no guarantees that OS will actually finish the game (OS doesn't have any major assets that would go to 505 in case of a bankruptcy).

That said, I'd say the amount with respect to 505 is below $3.5 million. We know the total UA budget is around $4-5 million. 800k came from the kickstarter and probably another big chunk was in the first two years when OS had a different publisher, so that was before before 505 jumped in. In total, 505 probably provided ~ $1.5-2.5 million in funding, and personal liability would likely only cover a fraction of that amount.

More importantly, though, it's very likely that the $12 million deal with Starbreeze included some degree of personal liability on the part of the owners/management. I cannot imagine any investor handing over $12 million without any guarantees and incentives for OS management/owners to actually complete the game. Again, that would only be a fraction of the $12 million budget, but 2-3 million in total seems realistic. Assuming there are 6 people participating (see SEC filing), that would be $400-500k each. Sounds realistic.

Now remember in the fall of 2018, there was no indication that the Starbreeze deal would fail. So what would have happened if they had not provided the $3.5 million in new capital to their company?

(1) UA would have been launched in the state it was in October 2018. No one would seriously call that a viable video game, so 505 would sue.

(2) 505 would sue the owners/managers directly (low amount of personal liability) and would also sue the company. OS has no substantive capital or assets - tangible or intangible - so the company would immediately be bankrupt.

(3) That would mean SS3 could not be made either, which would kill the Starbreeze deal and trigger personal liability for that deal (much higher than for UA).

(4) Even if we assume with some shenanigans they could continue SS3 development (moving the team to a different legal entity etc.), we now know Starbreeze had a cancellation option. If UA had been launched and abandoned in October 2018, Starbreeze might have concluded it is better to cancel the deal and demand that OS refund their investment (which we know was ~$7 million already at that time), again resulting in personal liability on the part of the OS owners/managers.

So in sum, OS owners/management had the following two options in the fall of 2018:

(a) Provide new capital to make UA a minimum viable product and continue operations of the company, esp. SS3.

or

(b) Don't provide new capital, tell 505 they can't finish UA. Get sued by 505 with some personal liability. Let OS go bankrupt. Forget about the half-finished SS3. Get sued by Starbreeze with possibly significant personal liability.

They chose (a), not surprisingly, because they thought they still had the much bigger Starbreeze deal and a half-finished SS3. It was a rational choice.

 

[Nano]

It still completely astounds me seeing what a fucking trainwreck OtherSide has been. How is it even possible that these industry veterans let it get this bad? Fuck.

 

[MasterLobar]

They are still pretending their company is going to survive. Obviously, they think people can't put two and two together.

Fun to see this thread revived, especially since the next project after UA is in the works in Boston.

https://forums.otherside-e.com/t/whats-next-for-otherside/9850/29

 

[MasterLobar]

Whut ???

If we didn't launch in November, we would not launch at all.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1848072002772540554/?ctp=2#c1813170373217186893

Individuals on the team were aware of issues, and there were a lot of production issues involved with development that made it hard to communicate those properly. We had a budget that we couldn't squeeze past and a deadline.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1769259642872066599/#c1813170373214346427

This makes no sense at all. They admitted they have been paying for finalizing the game and for the updates and the console version out of their own pockets since October. So why couldn't they have used that money to delay the launch for a few months or release in early access?

They are hiding something.

 

[BEvers]

Whut ???

If we didn't launch in November, we would not launch at all.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/692840/discussions/0/1848072002772540554/?ctp=2#c1813170373217186893

Also from that post:

There were miscommunications between the various levels when we signed off that made multiple groups believe that Early Access was not possible / not an option and that the game was ready.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

Miscommunication that the game was ready? Did they travel to Bizarro World to read the feedback from testers or something?

 

[Old Hans]

It still completely astounds me seeing what a fucking trainwreck OtherSide has been. How is it even possible that these industry veterans let it get this bad? Fuck.

these guys came off as very out of touch and behind the times. Everything was all "heh we had a similar system in our game back in 1962. Back in the good old days. Developers suck now. we gotta show em how its done"

All these old favorite developers that were once great back in the 1800's need to go back to the crypt. richard garriott is another perfect example

 

[JarlFrank]

No what they need to do is dust off those old engines and just make another game like they used to.

I'd pay full price for another Thief game or that Deep Cover thing they wanted to make before they went under.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is this the thread where we recognize a lot of good games were simply flukes and the developers themselves weren't very good at all?