I didn't mean that the medium is childish. Only that the ratio from smart games to stupid/mediocre ones is SO off that the entire medium is just, polluted.
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KickStarter Unwritten: Echoes of Twilight
- Thread starter viralata
- Start date
Chaotic_Heretic
Arcane
And how exactly are other mediums any better? Sturgeon's Law bro. Literature, music, cinema, graphic novels... you name it and it has buttloads of crap in it.
RileyPaladin
Barely Literate
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- Oct 25, 2013
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/594743529/unwritten-echoes-of-twilight
$45,115
pledged of $500,000 goal
6
days to go
good luck
HAHAHA
I think they suck at PR but they have some good ideas. Suckiest 1st post ever? Maybe...
Yes but there are boatloads of good comics, thousands of good movies, hundreds of thousands of good songs, I don't know how many good books. Far less with games.
Chaotic_Heretic
Arcane
If your standards with literature and cinema are high, most of the modern stuff is shit. Sure tbere are loads of classics, same with cRPGs. I am having fun playing selected old titles. But to a literature enthusiast, who will have read most of the classics, mostly he gets recent shit like Twilight.
You said that already. But the amount of good crpg's and other games pales in comparison to the breadth of quality available in all the other mediums.
Chaotic_Heretic
Arcane
Only if you aren't as enthusiastic about them and have not consumed all thier old classics. That is what I am saying. You want to sperg on the exact ratio of gem/shit?
viralata
Literate
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- Oct 22, 2013
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- 13
I guess it's getting tough to bring in some real original stuff to whatever is made today, either game, movie, books...
Sure, visual and sound effects are better and better. But what about the story behind it?
And why does the games still need to be tagged as low quality stuff? I mean, check out what, for example, GTA 5 earned in so little time. Do you know any recent movie that has made so much profit?
Game development is a business, and big companies already know it.
Sure, visual and sound effects are better and better. But what about the story behind it?
And why does the games still need to be tagged as low quality stuff? I mean, check out what, for example, GTA 5 earned in so little time. Do you know any recent movie that has made so much profit?
Game development is a business, and big companies already know it.
Most music, literature and films have always been shit, and in its time the shit is usually more popular than works of quality. Over the decades, however, shit is usually forgotten, while works of quality are timeless. Fifty years from now, there will still be some people playing the Codex-approved classics, but no one's going to know what Call of Duty was.
Fixed for accuracy.
viralata
Literate
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I'd say you just defined what's the meaning of a "classic". And I agree about it. Still, I'd say there are games that becomes a reference to some people throughout the years. I mean, everytime I see a new 1st person shooter, I always remember Wolfenstein and Doom, and the hours I've passed in front of my PC monitor with the beautiful 320*240 resolution, thinking: "No way games can be better than this" :D - Guess I was wrong.
Videogames have been a nice test field for hardware developers, but sometimes I think we're giving more attention to the hardware (and other stuff related) than into what should be more important, which is the chance to feel imersed on it, in terms of design and gameplay, and whatever reasons each one defines as a good gaming experience.
theSavant
Self-Ejected
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- 2,009
I'd expected them to have at least an alpha-demo, but all they present is a handful of concept art and on their website 4 pictures of a house. And this should bring them 500K? Seriously?
This can't work without a popular past. And even then it's risky. Of course, why should they start making a game if they don't have the funding? It's a devil's circle.
Looking at kickstarter form an indie point of view it looks like the maximum an unknown indie company can expect is a funding of approximately 50K. Barely enough to create a larger game or pay the wages of more than 3 team members (and even then you'd need to live in a cheap country and on very low standards).
This can't work without a popular past. And even then it's risky. Of course, why should they start making a game if they don't have the funding? It's a devil's circle.
Looking at kickstarter form an indie point of view it looks like the maximum an unknown indie company can expect is a funding of approximately 50K. Barely enough to create a larger game or pay the wages of more than 3 team members (and even then you'd need to live in a cheap country and on very low standards).
DarKPenguiN
Arcane
-And that is one of the main issues I have with the whole "Kickstarter" craze...
These Indie "devs" want enough money to actually live on , have their bills paid , hookers every now and again and a fully stocked Bar- That isnt the way shit (should) work(s). Kickstart should be used as a supplement to purchase assets, music, sprites or whatever the fuck you will not have time to do since you are working a regular fucking job and HOPING to make a name for yourself in the industry so one day you actually make games for a living.
-These people (*many , anyhow) seem to want it all NOW.
An unproven game dev with little to their name in the way of a portfolio is not going to have people hand them enough money to make games FULL TIME based on an idea or tech demo. A hobbyist who wants to make games to Prove themselves, could however, get some additional funding to help them make their "masterpiece" in their spare time. This idea of needing enough money to put together a "full time Team" is why Kickstart fails in many cases- We are skipping the "hobby" and "indie" aspect of game making and asking to put the cart before the Horse .
If someone has passion and skill- THEY WILL MAKE GAMES... If someone is only going to make games if they can receive a half million dollars (or whatever) they are finished before even starting imho. That is why Kickstarter is filled with scams like Greed Monger which actually got over double the money asked for (actually it was even far past that...) and once the money was 'in hand' the whole 'idea' of the game changed and then it still 'wasnt enough' so ANOTHER Kickstarter happened and to this day, the game has shown nothing woth talking about (over a year later) but the "devs" have had their bills paid for 'working' on this game.
I hate Kickstart for what its become...Although I liked the idea at the start... Its only promoted greed for the most part and very little n the way of 'great new games'. Obviously there are some people using this crowd funding properly, but the majority are scams (intentional or not...)
EDIT: My main passion and Hobby is Tabletop gaming. I run a game which has been ongoing for nearly a decade. We meet twice a month (average or 12-15 hours a month) and I prepare for the game probably a good 20 hours a week. To make my World seem more consistent and 'real' (since I have screwed with the natural Law...) I have talked to Professors at our Local College and have met with experts in certain fields to discuss changes I have made to the natural order and how they would probably play out- I also work full time and do all my prep during my 'off hours' because I ENJOY IT. Hell, I actually pay my OWN money to do this when you consider the books I buy, lectures I might attend, Fuel I use (I have stayed overnight at certain places sometimes) and I even throw in on Pizza and Soda during Game night.
-IF I were to take the "kickstarter" approach, I need at least $10/hour for preparation, plus a fuel expense and reimbursement for any money I spend , so I need approx $250 cash per week to run my game.. If I cannot get that, the game will suffer since I only "work" if I am "paid"...
As a hobbyist this is insulting to me. I imagine someone passionate about games is going to be making them regardless. If they cannot make a 3D game with Physics and an open sandbox without Hundreds of thousands of dollars and a "team"- Then they are creating text games on Liberty Basic because there is passion there- And people with passion will find a way...OR, there was never passion to begin with.
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potatojohn
Arcane
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- Jan 2, 2012
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Making games is a job, and a pretty tough one. So prospective devs should work 8-10h per day on a "regular job" and then another 8h on their game? I don't see that working out unless the first job involves being idle 90% of the time, or you (ab)use pharmaceuticals.
DarKPenguiN
Arcane
No, unknowns should just be handed a half million dollars because they have a good idea... And if not, these unknowns surely will not comprimise and make 2D games FIRST (for far less) or something they are capable of making without half a million dollars.
You missed the point...
EDIT- Once again, if you have passion and want to make games- You make games. You make games within your skill level/budget restraints. I am sure I could come up with "bullet points" for the ultimate RPG- And for 30 Million we could probably hire the people to make that game...But...
Really, I wouldn't feel comfortable pledging money to a project headed by a bunch of nobodies whose greatest claims to fame are a series of forgettable TC mods for Oblivion. Feel as though they're expecting to create their magnum opus straight out the floodgates with no real prior reputation in the game industry, and are just expecting people to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at them.
Onholyservicebound
Arcane
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- 1,567
I second Dudebro space marine as most likable , mostly because good voice acting and not taking himself too seriously.
Azrael the cat
Arcane
Sadly, if gaming had writers and designers of similar calibre to those that made Toy Story (but in a way that suits the interactive medium), that would be such incline that my head would explode. Childish, obviously. But there's a level of shittiness where an attempted 'mature' story is so poorly done that it gets its ass handed to it by a competently executed children's story.
potatojohn
Arcane
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- 2,646
Bullshit. You don't simply "motivate" yourself into becoming an expert programmer/animator/whatever. No amount of passion will save you from biochemical exaustion. It's like "willing" yourself to fucking 10 hot babes per day. Reality simply won't cooperate.
DarKPenguiN
Arcane
Oh, really? Man, I thought people became programmers by working hard at their skill level and within their budget- I didnt know you had to be handed half a million dollars first to motivate you.
Its weird ya know? I mean, I thought programming was like learning anything else, you start small and then work your way into more advanced (and costly) projects as you improve...Like my Cousin who builds luxury homes didnt start by someone handing him 3/4 of a million dollars and a hammer and say "there boy, build me a house", he started by building Garages and sheds - But programming is an entire different animal , huh? You need to be motivated by HUGE sums of money to learn because its not fun like being a Carpenter or Electrician or Stonemason where you just LOVE to learn the trade in your spare time.
Man, I look at some other Kickstart projects like "Frontiers" http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/railboy/frontiers-explore-discover-survive and wonder how a 1 man team was able to put all this together in three years (in his spare time and his own money) and is only asking for 50K to purchase some assets and make the game (the game which exists already) better... I mean, how did he manage to motivate himself for three years, actually MAKE A GAME and is now only wanting 50K? I guess someone must have motivated him with half a million a few years ago, huh? Because we all know now (thanks to you) that he only way to motivate anyone into learning game programming is with huge sums of money because it isnt fun like other jobs...
-Continue on....
Onholyservicebound
Arcane
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- 1,567
Frozen space nigger
theSavant
Self-Ejected
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2012
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- 2,009
Regarding FRONTIERS:
The effort is impressive, but one can see that it lacks polish, better textures, more sophisticated 3d models, architecture etc. This might change now that he got a huge funding to purchase high end assets. But it's not work that can be accomplished as a piece of cake. Also we don't know how much time he really invested in the game. When you look at his website it looks like he's kind of a freelancer. So he could have invested 3 hours or 12 hours per day. We don't know. It's nevertheless respectable, because it needs a lot of dedication to keep on going for 3 years and not lose passion. This is very difficult on a project stretching so long and being the only person working on it.
Back2Topic:
What would have served this kickstarter is, if they had produced a demo like the guy from Frontiers showing ingame footage from this project. They should have invested their time producing an alpha for this kickstarter instead of their last mods - whatever mods they made. I have actually no sense of their previous work or must have missed it in the kickstarter page, so I can't even see their work from the past. This is a no-no, as we all know people are too lazy to click the mousebutton more than once. Everything important must be visible on the first kickstarter page. And if it doesn't show ingame footage, it has already lost.
The effort is impressive, but one can see that it lacks polish, better textures, more sophisticated 3d models, architecture etc. This might change now that he got a huge funding to purchase high end assets. But it's not work that can be accomplished as a piece of cake. Also we don't know how much time he really invested in the game. When you look at his website it looks like he's kind of a freelancer. So he could have invested 3 hours or 12 hours per day. We don't know. It's nevertheless respectable, because it needs a lot of dedication to keep on going for 3 years and not lose passion. This is very difficult on a project stretching so long and being the only person working on it.
Back2Topic:
What would have served this kickstarter is, if they had produced a demo like the guy from Frontiers showing ingame footage from this project. They should have invested their time producing an alpha for this kickstarter instead of their last mods - whatever mods they made. I have actually no sense of their previous work or must have missed it in the kickstarter page, so I can't even see their work from the past. This is a no-no, as we all know people are too lazy to click the mousebutton more than once. Everything important must be visible on the first kickstarter page. And if it doesn't show ingame footage, it has already lost.
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Johannes
Arcane
So it seems the game is gonna remain... Unwritten.
I dunno, really. Frontiers looks - and I underscore, "looks" -- really good to me. It doesn't really need better 3d models or architecture, imo. The only issue is whether he'll be able to actually fill it with meaningful/unique content. That's the only thing that matters. Otherwise it looks really really good, even surprisingly so.
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