World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Storyfag]

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

Where is this aggression coming from?

Why from the Land Beyond the Forest, of course. Do not test the patience of the Dragon.

 

[Lacrymas]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

 

[Storyfag]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

As a self-proclaimed storyfag I am well aware of the dangers of lampshade hanging. However the example present in Bloodlines is done professionaly enough so as to not be a problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

Except it's not done well because it doesn't make sense. Not within the game itself and not within the lore.

 

[Lambach]

Well, lore-wise it isn't like this. The levels represent achieved status in your chosen class, you can't become a lvl 15 Druid without becoming an archdruid of a grove for example. There are only ever just a few archdruids and not everyone can get there.

That's not really the point - in NWN2/MotB you could say the power you have is kind of fast-tracked because normally it would take longer to reach it, but still, from level 1 - 28/29/30 the protagonist accomplishes an insane amount of shit, including slaying an ancient evil spawned from the source of all magic itself or waging a Crusade against one of the most powerful Deities of the setting by directly assaulting his city, which in D&D lore means he gets lots of experience and therefore advances in level. And the advancement is relatively linear and gradual. You start by beating up local peasant bullies at a fair, then you're up against some semi-trained murderous midgets, then you're fighting basic undead, then street thugs, orcs etc. Standard D&D fare to a T.

In Bloodlines, you have abilities that lore-wise you quite literally can't. Let's use a really simple example - when you refuse to see Grout, LaCroix Dominates you into it, meaning he's the same Gen as you at the minimum, and almost certainly lower. Then in the final scene of the game, he can no longer Dominate you. Why is that? Did you lower your Generation to below his in the meantime? The only way to do that, according to VtM lore, is through either the 3rd level of Path of Blood (and only temporarily) or Diablerie. The game never even hints at the protagonist using either. I've seen the "you can resist Dominate powers with Willpower" argument, but that would imply that you're suddenly able to resist several attempts of a Vampire shown as quite adept at this Discipline in a row, whereas just a few short weeks back, he did it on the first attempt. Did LaCroix's dice rolls just happen to be that shitty at that precise moment in time?

 

[Lacrymas]

I think we can all agree this whole situation is a mess and bringing up the actual lore makes it worse. The devs just wanted you to feel badass (something which is damaged if it's indeed the vampire god behind you, it's not you who is the badass it's the power you get from your daddy) without considering the lore implications.

 

[Delterius]

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

 

[Storyfag]

Except it's not done well because it doesn't make sense. Not within the game itself and not within the lore.

And you dare ask me where is my aggression coming from?



You filthy little ex-twink! I shall fleshcraft your lips off, and permanently lodge your dick in your own anus!

 

[Lambach]

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

Is there a hopw roewur ne competition going on that I don't know about?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

ex-twink!

 

[Storyfag]

ex-twink!

If I recall correctly, Lacrymas no longer qualifies due to age

 

[Lacrymas]

I've never been a twink.

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

He "solves" them in the way a deus ex machina "solves" a plot. It's simply bad writing all around. A wizard did it, along with raising a bunch of other questions in the process.

 

[Nano]

I've never been a twink.

Then what would you classify yourself as?

 

[Lacrymas]

Then what would you classify yourself as?

More like an otter, lol. I certainly have the body hair for it.

 

[Delterius]

I've never been a twink.

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

He "solves" them in the way a deus ex machina "solves" a plot. It's simply bad writing all around. A wizard did it, along with raising a bunch of other questions in the process.

Caine is always with us, neonate.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Caine just gets his life from drama like other people get it from a Dua Lipa song.

 

[Delterius]

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

Is there a hopw roewur ne competition going on that I don't know about?

you should join us, the winning team

the GOATlines 2 team

 

[Roguey]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

Andrei outright calls you a pawn and there are all those emails. Boosting your powers was part of the plan. Letting LaCroix dominate you in every conversation except the last is a clear indication that something out of the ordinary is happening.

 

[Storyfag]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

Andrei outright calls you a pawn and there are all those emails. Boosting your powers was part of the plan. Letting LaCroix dominate you in every conversation except the last is a clear indication that something out of the ordinary is happening.

I am beggining to suspect that Lacrymas played Bloodlines once, back when xir was a twink, and now is attempting to sound authoritative. Poor kine, I shall impale it with its own spine.

 

[Lacrymas]

Andrei outright calls you a pawn and there are all those emails. Boosting your powers was part of the plan. Letting LaCroix dominate you in every conversation except the last is a clear indication that something out of the ordinary is happening.

I am all for manipulations, that's the whole idea of the setting, but I'm against Caine being the one doing them. Why would he do it? And in such a manner? What did he expect to happen when he empowers someone? It's obvious they will win. If he wanted a specific outcome, which is implied by him empowering you, why not do it in a less dumb and roundabout way? Why is the vampire god interested in petty LA politics? And what does the sarcophagus have to do with that?

"He just does it for no reason" is not good writing.

 

[Roguey]

I am all for manipulations, that's the whole idea of the setting, but I'm against Caine being the one doing them. Why would he do it? And in such a manner? What did he expect to happen when he empowers someone? It's obvious they will win. If he wanted a specific outcome, which is implied by him empowering you, why not do it in a less dumb and roundabout way? Why is the vampire god interested in petty LA politics? And what does the sarcophagus have to do with that?

It's not Caine, it's an ancient Malkavian who sincerely believes himself to be Caine. Just a crazy troll messing around with his pal Jack

 

[Storyfag]

Andrei outright calls you a pawn and there are all those emails. Boosting your powers was part of the plan. Letting LaCroix dominate you in every conversation except the last is a clear indication that something out of the ordinary is happening.

I am all for manipulations, that's the whole idea of the setting, but I'm against Caine being the one doing them. Why would he do it? And in such a manner? What did he expect to happen when he empowers someone? It's obvious they will win. If he wanted a specific outcome, which is implied by him empowering you, why not do it in a less dumb and roundabout way? Why is the vampire god interested in petty LA politics? And what does the sarcophagus have to do with that?

"He just does it for no reason" is not good writing.

Plebeian creature, get it into your thick skull that Caine was not at all interested in the fate of the PC. I am now granting you the blessing of the Quest Compass: the anwser lies in Caine's discussion with the PC in the cab. After that discerning the truth should be trivial.

 

[Storyfag]

I am all for manipulations, that's the whole idea of the setting, but I'm against Caine being the one doing them. Why would he do it? And in such a manner? What did he expect to happen when he empowers someone? It's obvious they will win. If he wanted a specific outcome, which is implied by him empowering you, why not do it in a less dumb and roundabout way? Why is the vampire god interested in petty LA politics? And what does the sarcophagus have to do with that?

It's not Caine, it's an ancient Malkavian who sincerely believes himself to be Caine. Just a crazy troll messing around with his pal Jack

If it looks like Caine and can pull off stuff that - to your average Elder - only Caine could... it might as well be Caine.

A sufficiently powerful Methuselah cannot be distinguished from Caine.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not Caine, it's an ancient Malkavian who sincerely believes himself to be Caine. Just a crazy troll messing around with his pal Jack

That contradicts you ending up with a lower gen than LaCroix in the end. I'm not aware of that happening outside of specific rituals or diablerie, or obviously Caine.

 

[Roguey]

That contradicts you ending up with a lower gen than LaCroix in the end.

The Malkavian is older than LaCroix obviously. LaCroix is "only" about 200 years old, his generation isn't specified.