World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[RaggleFraggle]

Popular enough to try things like the Aaron Eckhart Frankenstein film which was clearly inspired by WoD as well.

How so? WoD didn’t invent urban fantasy. The genre has its roots much earlier. I see WoD fans say “this generic urban fantasy story is clearly inspired by WoD” all the time and I’m never convinced because the evidence is always pareidolia. Angels hiding in plain sight, gargoyles that move on their own, demons that possess bodies, Frankenstein’s monster, secret wars between heaven and hell… these are all well-trodden tropes that go back well into the 20th century and earlier.

Heck, WW tried to sue Underworld for copyright infringement. They cited a whopping 80 points of similarity, all of which were rebutted. Reading through the documents shared online, all of these points read like pareidolia. There’s zero evidence that Underworld was directly inspired by WoD. WoD itself is hugely derivative of prior fiction to the point of being composed of blatant ripoffs in places, which undercuts any attempt at citing similarity. That’s like saying that “Starship Troopers is clearly inspired by Warhammer 40,000 because it has space bugs!”

Kindred TV show was cancelled because the lead actor died in a motorcycle crash.

That sort of thing hasn’t stopped other franchises from recasting, retooling or doing spinoffs. TV has never touched the IP in the decades since. That’s not something you can explain away by saying an actor died.

Bloodlines sales were negatively impacted by the stupid decision to release the game on the same day as Half-Life 2.

The two games aren’t even in the same genre, so I don’t expect there would be overlap to the point of competing for the same audience. That’s like saying Half-Life 2 would take away significant sales from Neverwinter Nights or other Bioware games of the time. Anyway, the reviews were quick to point out the many many gamebreaking bugs. Sure, we can only speculate, but I don’t think its chances would be much improved.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

TL;DR VtMB2's core premise is based on an outdated and tested-to-fail discarded concept.

I never liked the concept of generation. It was invented precisely because it was originally supposed to enforce a similar dynamic in V1 back in 1991 where PCs were supposed to be 13th gen newbies fighting the tyranny of the elders. Of course, as focuses shifted it lost its original place. Now we’re stuck with it because of the mindless adherence to nostalgia, tradition and cargo culting that characterizes pop culture. Removing it in homebrew campaigns or playing VTR is evil heresy deserving of being burned at the stake. /s

 

[J1M]

Popular enough to try things like the Aaron Eckhart Frankenstein film which was clearly inspired by WoD as well.

How so? WoD didn’t invent urban fantasy. The genre has its roots much earlier. I see WoD fans say “this generic urban fantasy story is clearly inspired by WoD” all the time and I’m never convinced because the evidence is always pareidolia. Angels hiding in plain sight, gargoyles that move on their own, demons that possess bodies, Frankenstein’s monster, secret wars between heaven and hell… these are all well-trodden tropes that go back well into the 20th century and earlier.

Heck, WW tried to sue Underworld for copyright infringement. They cited a whopping 80 points of similarity, all of which were rebutted. Reading through the documents shared online, all of these points read like pareidolia. There’s zero evidence that Underworld was directly inspired by WoD. WoD itself is hugely derivative of prior fiction to the point of being composed of blatant ripoffs in places, which undercuts any attempt at citing similarity. That’s like saying that “Starship Troopers is clearly inspired by Warhammer 40,000 because it has space bugs!”

Kindred TV show was cancelled because the lead actor died in a motorcycle crash.

That sort of thing hasn’t stopped other franchises from recasting, retooling or doing spinoffs. TV has never touched the IP in the decades since. That’s not something you can explain away by saying an actor died.

Bloodlines sales were negatively impacted by the stupid decision to release the game on the same day as Half-Life 2.

The two games aren’t even in the same genre, so I don’t expect there would be overlap to the point of competing for the same audience. That’s like saying Half-Life 2 would take away significant sales from Neverwinter Nights or other Bioware games of the time. Anyway, the reviews were quick to point out the many many gamebreaking bugs. Sure, we can only speculate, but I don’t think its chances would be much improved.

You have a conclusion and are grasping at any answer that aligns with it. A reminder: my position is that the license holders had a lack of vision.

It's not Hollywood's fault that White Wolf didn't develop additional TV or streaming projects. They are clearly willing to pick up almost any novel or young adult series adaptation.

Releasing ANY game on the same day as Half-Life 2 would be a stupid idea. It sucked all of the air out of the room. That nonsense about genre, as if players only buy one genre of game, is exactly the thinking that some retard at a publisher used and killed Troika as a result.

The point about Underworld is going over your head. Its success proves the audience existed and WoD license holders failed to appeal to that audience.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

A reminder: my position is that the license holders had a lack of vision.

Alrighty then. They failed to take opportunities in making a cinematic universe despite an audience existing. Publishers picked bad openings for releases that led to failure.

It's not Hollywood's fault that White Wolf didn't develop additional TV or streaming projects. They are clearly willing to pick up almost any novel or young adult series adaptation.

As I said, the market was different in the 90s and 2000s before Twilight burst onto the scene. Even then, it's taken decades for venerable properties like Vampire Chronicles and Necroscope to get adapted despite multiple attempts. I don't know if you can attribute this failure entirely at WW's feet. We're not privy to their private dealings anyway.

Releasing ANY game on the same day as Half-Life 2 would be a stupid idea. It sucked all of the air out of the room. That nonsense about genre, as if players only buy one genre of game, is exactly the thinking that some retard at a publisher used and killed Troika as a result.

Okay. I can admit when I'm wrong. Releasing on the same day as Half-Life 2 was a bad idea in any case.

The point about Underworld is going over your head. Its success proves the audience existed and WoD license holders failed to appeal to that audience.

In that case, okay, see my response above about markets.

You still said I, Frankenstein was directly inspired by WoD. I'm curious as to how you came to believe that, but I won't pursue this further if you're not interested.

 

[J1M]

That was my "100% original do not steal" thought after watching the trailer. It was reinforced when I saw the film months later.

This is speaking as someone who never played Promethean, but recalled this from the wiki, which sounded like the elevator pitch for the movie:

Prometheans generally do not care for politics, instead concentrating on the Pilgrimage, their quest to attain a soul and transform themselves via a "Great Work" into truly living beings. Each follows one of the Refinements, applications of the Great Work which focus on particular strategies and philosophies. Those who succeed in attaining a soul become Redeemed.

Clearly I picked up on what they were going for, since I now read on Wikipedia that there were plans for an Underworld crossover and cinematic universe.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

That was my "100% original do not steal" thought after watching the trailer. It was reinforced when I saw the film months later.

This is speaking as someone who never played Promethean, but recalled this from the wiki, which sounded like the elevator pitch for the movie:

Prometheans generally do not care for politics, instead concentrating on the Pilgrimage, their quest to attain a soul and transform themselves via a "Great Work" into truly living beings. Each follows one of the Refinements, applications of the Great Work which focus on particular strategies and philosophies. Those who succeed in attaining a soul become Redeemed.

Clearly I picked up on what they were going for, since I now read on Wikipedia that there were plans for an Underworld crossover and cinematic universe.

It’s a well-trod trope going back to at least Pinocchio. I’m sorry if I come across as condescending here. That is not my intention.

I haven’t seen any convincing evidence put forward that Len Wiseman or Kevin Grevioux ever heard of WoD (before the lawsuit anyway), much less took inspiration from it. If they were, then they did a good job covering their tracks. All the evidence I’ve seen put forward can either be traced back to earlier sources (e.g. Pinocchio, Lestat, The Howling) or is circumstantial at best (e.g. werewolves shredding non-elder vamps in fair fights).

 

[J1M]

That was my "100% original do not steal" thought after watching the trailer. It was reinforced when I saw the film months later.

This is speaking as someone who never played Promethean, but recalled this from the wiki, which sounded like the elevator pitch for the movie:

Prometheans generally do not care for politics, instead concentrating on the Pilgrimage, their quest to attain a soul and transform themselves via a "Great Work" into truly living beings. Each follows one of the Refinements, applications of the Great Work which focus on particular strategies and philosophies. Those who succeed in attaining a soul become Redeemed.

Clearly I picked up on what they were going for, since I now read on Wikipedia that there were plans for an Underworld crossover and cinematic universe.

It’s a well-trod trope going back to at least Pinocchio. I’m sorry if I come across as condescending here. That is not my intention.

I haven’t seen any convincing evidence put forward that Len Wiseman or Kevin Grevioux ever heard of WoD (before the lawsuit anyway), much less took inspiration from it. If they were, then they did a good job covering their tracks. All the evidence I’ve seen put forward can either be traced back to earlier sources (e.g. Pinocchio, Lestat, The Howling) or is circumstantial at best (e.g. werewolves shredding non-elder vamps in fair fights).

Bloodlines 2 isn't going to come out any later if you are unable to convince me that I, Frankenstein takes more inspiration from Pinocchio than WoD's Promethean.

 

[Wunderbar]

Spoiler

https://www.behance.net/gallery/143273617/Bloodlines-II

 

[Carpalone]

Spoiler

https://www.behance.net/gallery/143273617/Bloodlines-II

Oh what could of been seeing these screenshots just hurts.

 

[Semiurge]

Being able to <use a powerful ability> only when the game permits is lame. I'm glad the project was canceled, hopefully none of the original retarded designs survive.

 

[Bad Sector]

Is it me or the body proportions are a bit off with a too big head and neck for how think he otherwise is?

 

[Wunderbar]

It's a mock-up made to showcase game's UI, not a real screenshot.

 

[MichaelB]

Is it me or the body proportions are a bit off with a too big head and neck for how think he otherwise is?

they obviously are. It also seems like the limbs are too long and thin. I initially assumed this was meant to represent something in-universe(i'm not knowledgeable on the subject)

 

[Roguey]

You had to play as a lanklet vampire.

And using a German word for "intimidation" when they just could have used Intimidation.

I thought they said there wasn't going to be a quest compass? Yet there it is.

 

[Wunderbar]

lanklet vampire.

And using a German word for "intimidation" when they just could have used Intimidation.

I thought they said there wasn't going to be a quest compass? Yet there it is.

likely placeholders.

 

[Caim]

And using a German word for "intimidation" when they just could have used Intimidation.

German is a very intimidating language, just like French is very good for insulting someone in.

 

[hello friend]

Both are ugly languages from the unfortunate south

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I wonder how the models would have moved. Modern games have problems with the uncanny valley. Character models look like plastic mannequins, lip sync doesn’t work, etc

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer stylized designs. They also lend themselves better to comedy, I guess. I don’t want to be a downy doubter, but those screenshots make it look like the script would be pretentious goth poetry and Linkin Park songs all the time.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Uhhhh........

 

[Child of Malkav]

Spoiler

https://www.behance.net/gallery/143273617/Bloodlines-II

How did you find them? A leak? NDA? Current build? Any info on the current developer?

 

[Ibn Sina]

The moment they removed seduction as a skill is the moment this game was doomed, regardless of anything else.

 

[Caim]

Uhhhh........

"Childe, tonight you stand accused of intentionally breaking the Masquerade by ripping cars in half with your bare hands while shouting "FUCK ALL Y'ALL VAMPIRES ARE REAL". How do you plead?"
"I slept afterwards, Elder."
"I see. Mind your language the next time, at least."

 

[Wesp5]

Is it me or the body proportions are a bit off with a too big head and neck for how think he otherwise is?

No, the head is much too large and I agree with Wunderbar that this must be a fake shot. But why make such a bad one for promotional issues? My guess about the two German words used is that they wanted to see how much space they need for translations as these words are very long ! Also another hint that something is off is that the player has all three Thinblood disciplines. When they showed me the demo you needed to select one and this was changed much later as far as I know...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

How did you find them? A leak? NDA? Current build? Any info on the current developer?

looks like a UI artist posted it, probably as an example of their work for their portfolio
leaks via contract artists happen pretty often

which means you guys also shouldn't read into it beyond the UI elements themselves, which excludes text.

also

I worked throughout 2018-2020 with Paradox Interactive & Hard Suit Labs on Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines II, long anticipated sequel to the cult 2004 RPG.

probably scrapped by now

 

[Kev Inkline]

TL;DR VtMB2's core premise is based on an outdated and tested-to-fail discarded concept.

I never liked the concept of generation. It was invented precisely because it was originally supposed to enforce a similar dynamic in V1 back in 1991 where PCs were supposed to be 13th gen newbies fighting the tyranny of the elders. Of course, as focuses shifted it lost its original place. Now we’re stuck with it because of the mindless adherence to nostalgia, tradition and cargo culting that characterizes pop culture. Removing it in homebrew campaigns or playing VTR is evil heresy deserving of being burned at the stake. /s

Stop using /s. This is not reddit.

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