World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Delterius]

what if you're an elder but ALSO never was good at being a vampire in the first place

 

[Vincente]

So wasn't there meant to be a part 2 with a live gameplay demo or something?

They will have a part 2 of that Seattle by Night game they did before the trailers, which I assume will contain more info about game's locations and characters.

 

[scytheavatar]

Why are they even bothering?

I think it's just Paradox being desperate for a new IP, preferably one with a wide market appeal.

The first Bloodlines sold less than Arcanum and ToEE, I am not sure how this IP has a "wide market appeal".

 

[Grampy_Bone]

You didn't watch the trailer?

TCR have never made a game with actual gameplay. The combat shown is clearly faked for the trailer. These guys have never made a combat system and what's more it's antithetical to their design philosophy, not to mention RPG systems like stats, progression, inventory, etc. They'll never get it working right.

 

[Roguey]

The first Bloodlines sold less than Arcanum and ToEE, I am not sure how this IP has a "wide market appeal".

They're hoping for the Fallout 3/Baldur's Gate 3 effect.

They may end up with a Dungeon Siege III.

TCR have never made a game with actual gameplay. The combat shown is clearly faked for the trailer. These guys have never made a combat system and what's more it's antithetical to their design philosophy, not to mention RPG systems like stats, progression, inventory, etc. They'll never get it working right.

None of the people working on this have worked on TCR's previous walking sims. The creative director was the lead designer of Gears Tactics which appears to be a mediocre tactical game, but it's certainly a game with combat.

 

[GhostCow]

people should have been skeptical of the original incarnation of this project, and they absolutely were not because of le ebin fingerless glove guy.
this is a significant improvement and people are whining that we aren't going to get a game written by cara ellison. it's bewildering.

Why you are so optimistic?

He preordered years ago. Sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Cross]

Seems to be to be the same result in the end. What I have seen from the Thinbloods of HSL BL2 they were more powerful than normal vampires too! Also don't forget how overpowered the player ends up in Bloodlines. Is this really a good thing to already start off that strong? Also how would an Elder react to the modern world?

Maybe you have to "re-learn" your powers since you've been sleeping too long, or maybe you were awoken using some non-standard method that fucked with your abilities, like how Samus loses all her shit at the start of every game or a PB game

Big mistake to give to a business focused and oriented studio (take the money and deliver a poor product at the end

but they took it away from hardsuit labs... are you really calling the chinese room a "business focused" studio? have you seen the games they have released? when I think of a business focused studio I don't think of people who have made mostly artsy walking simulators, unless you think those are a huge cash cow or something.

There is literally no one from the walking simulator days in The Chinese Room anymore. Even the founder of the studio left a short while ago.

This is basically a new studio with some Bioware, Rocksteady and someone from Hogwarts Legacy

That still leaves them as a studio with zero experience developing first-person games with actual gameplay.

Modern first-person games don't exactly have a stellar track record when it comes to their gameplay. Arkane went from making Dark Messiah of Might and Magic to pushing out garbage like Redfall. It's one of those genres, like RTS, that is in perpetual decline/stagnation. For that reason alone, there's almost no chance of this having fun gameplay.

 

[hajro]

So this is now a vamp power fantasy bioshock isnt it?

 

[Roguey]

That still leaves them as a studio with zero experience developing first-person games with actual gameplay.

Modern first-person games don't exactly have a stellar track record when it comes to their gameplay. Arkane went from making Dark Messiah of Might and Magic to pushing out garbage like Redfall. It's one of those genres, like RTS, that is in perpetual decline/stagnation. For that reason alone, there's almost no chance of this having fun gameplay.

Are you familiar with every designer or programmer on the project? What the studio has done in the past doesn't matter. These are all new hires from other studios with assumingly relelvant experience (it's what they've been calling for on their careers page after all)

 

[Space Satan]

What the studio has done in the past doesn't matter.

Oh wow, is so sad that we can't predict what next bioware game will be like. Or EA game. Or Activision game. There's just no way to predict the future. Where do you think you are on, sci-fi novel?

 

[BruceVC]

Im still confident this game will be released and this trailer looks good and I can already see one positive. There are hot women in it which means woke influence is not dictating the artistic and aesthetic direction of the game and characters, that immediately makes a nice change

 

[Delterius]

There are hot women in it which means woke influence is not dictating the artistic and aesthetic direction of the game and characters, that immediately makes a nice change

oh fuck its gonna flop

 

[Roguey]

What the studio has done in the past doesn't matter.

Oh wow, is so sad that we can't predict what next bioware game will be like. Or EA game. Or Activision game. There's just no way to predict the future. Where do you think you are on, sci-fi novel?

Bioware is a victim of its own management. Bloodlines 2's development team consists of writers who have never worked on a Chinese Room game before, programmers who have never worked on a Chinese Room game before, a creative director who's never worked on a Chinese Room game before, and now even a studio head who's never worked on a Chinese Room game before (Dan Pinchbeck left back in July).

 

[Delterius]

What the studio has done in the past doesn't matter.

Oh wow, is so sad that we can't predict what next bioware game will be like. Or EA game. Or Activision game. There's just no way to predict the future. Where do you think you are on, sci-fi novel?

Bioware is a victim of its own management. Bloodlines 2's development team consists of writers who have never worked on a Chinese Room game before, programmers who have never worked on a Chinese Room game before, a creative director who's never worked on a Chinese Room game before, and now even a studio head who's never worked on a Chinese Room game before (Dan Pinchbeck left back in July).

Yeah. It's easier to envision TCR as a new and untested studio entirely. Arguably even the past games under the TCR 'umbrella' like the Amnesia expansion don't even set the tone going forward, serving only as marketing points for the audience.

 

[Cross]

That still leaves them as a studio with zero experience developing first-person games with actual gameplay.

Modern first-person games don't exactly have a stellar track record when it comes to their gameplay. Arkane went from making Dark Messiah of Might and Magic to pushing out garbage like Redfall. It's one of those genres, like RTS, that is in perpetual decline/stagnation. For that reason alone, there's almost no chance of this having fun gameplay.

Are you familiar with every designer or programmer on the project? What the studio has done in the past doesn't matter. These are all new hires from other studios with assumingly relelvant experience (it's what they've been calling for on their careers page after all)

Lol, implying americans can make good action games...

As far as melee-combat oriented games go, they don't. They have a better grasp at it than Europeans though.

 

[The President]

With TCR that’s a bit of a double edged sword. Yes everyone is new there which we can then say “well these are new people who may be skilled enough to do this”, then on the flip side of that we can’t say “they have 15 years of narrative experience”. In reality only a handful of people there would.

I believe Wesp first said this and one of the articles posted claims “the Hardsuit game and paradox were at odds on what the final game should be. Which of course doesn’t answer the big question which is what game exactly did paradox want? That answer is necessary to have any kind of idea on what we’re getting regardless of how good or bad it’s done.

 

[Delterius]

“well these are new people who may be skilled enough to do this”

I think the fairer and neutral reaction would be to say that the team, the pipelines and everything else is new and untested. We can't know for sure what the studio is about, what they are capable of, and what they want to achieve. All we know are the supposed plans of their parent company. The best case scenario we could hope for is that BL2 is something like Kingmaker. The first offering of a new studio that bit more than they could chew, only it had enough heart to be worth it's niche. If BL2 ends up being something more it would be an upset. If it ends up being something less, it would be understandable. Or at the very least it wouldn't be much of a surprise.

It doesn't seem like they walked into this project like it's a mercenary hackjob to turn a quick buck. But then again I don't trust Paradox not to fuck up their vetting for the fourteenth time.

 

[BruceVC]

“well these are new people who may be skilled enough to do this”

I think the fairer and neutral reaction would be to say that the team, the pipelines and everything else is new and untested. We can't know for sure what the studio is about, what they are capable of, and what they want to achieve. All we know are the supposed plans of their parent company. The best case scenario we could hope for is that BL2 is something like Kingmaker. The first offering of a new studio that bit more than they could chew, only it had enough heart to be worth it's niche. If BL2 ends up being something more it would be an upset. If it ends up being something less, it would be understandable. Or at the very least it wouldn't be much of a surprise.

It doesn't seem like they walked into this project like it's a mercenary hackjob to turn a quick buck. But then again I don't trust Paradox not to fuck up their vetting for the fourteenth time.

This is basically my biggest concern with BL2, Chinese Room has delivered on small and much less iconic games than this that include Everybody's Gone to the Rapture and Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs

I played these and they were fun adventure games but BL2 is supposed to be a grand RPG and I wonder if they can deliver on this type of game

 

[Roguey]

Frances Wakefield-Harrey the contractor hasn't been on twitter since late 2022, though it's also likely she's with the others as well.

And she's updated her linkedin, confirming she was on Bloodlines 2, but she's already moved on.

Writer
THE CHINESE ROOM LTD

Dec 2021 - Dec 2022 1 year 1 month

Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines 2

Paradox's freelance-writer budget certainly isn't what it used to be.

 

[Delterius]

This is basically my biggest concern with BL2, Chinese Room has delivered on small and much less iconic games than this that include Everybody's Gone to the Rapture and Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs

I played these and they were fun adventure games but BL2 is supposed to be a grand RPG and I wonder if they can deliver on this type of game

You're wondering for the wrong reasons. For all intents and purposes The Chinese Room have nothing to do with either of those games. It's an entirely new studio, owned by an entirely new parent company, with entirely new employees and leads. The Kingmaker example is quite telling. When Owlcat announced it I didn't really pay attention to it. The studio was new and untested. I was more interesting in Pillars and thought Owlcat was gonna play third fiddle to Obsidian. By the time Wrath came out the tables had turned.

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

 

[RagingNomad]

I wonder what thoughts the HSL employees had after watching the new trailer? Do any of them read this forum?

 

[duskvile]

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

They're old school developers from Rocksteady, Bioware and Avalanche. They're tested in making AAA game and know how to code anything they want to make. As for narrative, you need to wait and see dialogue quality tier. They're very capable to deliver serious RPG.

 

[S.torch]

That trailer looks nothing like this one:

 

[Vincente]

That trailer looks nothing like this one:

V5 is also nothing like V20/V2.

 

[S.torch]

I know. Isn't that sad?