World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[duskvile]

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

They're old school developers from Rocksteady, Bioware and Avalanche. They're tested in making AAA game and know how to code anything they want to make. As for narrative, you need to wait and see dialogue quality tier. They're very capable to deliver serious RPG.

 

[S.torch]

That trailer looks nothing like this one:

 

[Vincente]

That trailer looks nothing like this one:

V5 is also nothing like V20/V2.

 

[S.torch]

I know. Isn't that sad?

 

[Vincente]

Not really. If I wanted more Bloodlines 1, I would play that game.

 

[BruceVC]

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

They're old school developers from Rocksteady, Bioware and Avalanche. They're tested in making AAA game and know how to code anything they want to make. As for narrative, you need to wait and see dialogue quality tier. They're very capable to deliver serious RPG.

Thats really interesting and its relevant, do you have any names and links around the developers?

 

[Delterius]

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

They're old school developers from Rocksteady, Bioware and Avalanche. They're tested in making AAA game and know how to code anything they want to make. As for narrative, you need to wait and see dialogue quality tier. They're very capable to deliver serious RPG.

I don't doubt that individual developers in there have good resumes, but do note this isn't about individuals. It's about teams and pipelines. The big lesson of the past 10 years is that the best studios are built on refining themselves through reiteration.

Larian, FromSoftware, Rockstar, and so on all built on the audiences, the tech, and the expertise they accrued. Their offerings are a culmination of each game they created before. Bethesda is the same as well. They've always streamlined their games, but they never chased new genres. They were trendsetters not trendchasers.

When BioWare swapped genres with every release they still grew, but arguably underperformed since the games industry as a whole grew along with them. When CdProjekt decided to go from the Witcher 3 to Witcher-GTA they ended up creating a disaster. And now that Feargus is activating his Plan of Slam Dunking a Skyrim out of the talky RPG studio, well we know that Avowed is gonna be small and possibly as disappointing as Outer Worlds was. Meanwhile real unique stuff like Tyranny is left to rot.

Individual talent is quitting studios all the time (seriously, these people have options), so it's all about cultivating the studio as a whole. As such, 'TCR' is a new studio. BL2 will be their first offering. The difference between them and Hardsuit seems to be that their parent company is in for the longhaul and has the warchest to invest into the development of a 'British Naughty Dog'. Only time will tell what BL2 will be like, but for now it is the game that will build the studio. Not the other way around.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

people should have been skeptical of the original incarnation of this project, and they absolutely were not because of le ebin fingerless glove guy.
this is a significant improvement and people are whining that we aren't going to get a game written by cara ellison. it's bewildering.

Why you are so optimistic?

He preordered years ago. Sunk cost fallacy.

I feel sad for him, but if he's put so much commitment into it for so many years, there's a good chance he'll like the game...if it comes out at all.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Pretty typical Jenkem behavior. Biomutant was going to be GOTY too. This is a particularly strange and extreme case though.

 

[Vincente]

No worries bros, I will suffer through another on stage live play so you don't have to, and share all the things and characters they mention there.

 

[Delterius]

meanwhile in the news thread vtmb2 gains 2000s creepypasta vibes

this project is a sure thing gentlemen

 

[duskvile]

Larian, FromSoftware, Rockstar, and so on all built on the audiences, the tech, and the expertise they accrued. Their offerings are a culmination of each game they created before. Bethesda is the same as well. They've always streamlined their games, but they never chased new genres. They were trendsetters not trendchasers.


Individual talent is quitting studios all the time (seriously, these people have options), so it's all about cultivating the studio as a whole. As such, 'TCR' is a new studio. BL2 will be their first offering. The difference between them and Hardsuit seems to be that their parent company is in for the longhaul and has the warchest to invest into the development of a 'British Naughty Dog'. Only time will tell what BL2 will be like, but for now it is the game that will build the studio. Not the other way around.

BL2 is a different thing. VTMB has a cult following for the RPG and writing, only not for the gameplay. A lot of new players said gameplay is quite stale and quit the whole game. So I recon TCR will mix something old with the new gameplay and ultimately create new trend of RPG mixed with immersive sim elements. My hopes.

Naughty Dog had some contract devs who work on specialized part of the game. Like the animators who are in the of movie cinematics. I look at TCR in the same way if they want to be 'His majesty queen Naughty Dog'. A bunch of professionals in own fields following vision what BL2 could be.

 

[Herumor]

Here's some concept artwork for TCR's take on Bloodlines 2:

 

[Vincente]

Footnotes from live play:

-There is a character named Nyx, female Gangrel that has ghoul coyotes, uses them as spies and info network.
-Tully the Nosferatu is the guy that helps new people and introduces them into the city.
-There might be a Wraith, or something spooky.
-Malcolm(Makom? Makum?) Bar, defeated Prince's domain. Subtle, upscale, black and gold. (Might be the bar from trailer and first shown set of pictures)
-Lou Graham (big tiddy vamp) is the old Prince. New Prince is someone named Campbell. We don't know how Lou lost praxis.
-Lou lost "something" and is looking to find it.
-There are ghouls missing and Kindred are worried. (This might be game related or liveplay related)

Again, take all these with a grain of salt, don't know how much of it is in Bloodlines and how much is tabletop game only.

 

[Fedora Master]

Who cares? Dead game.

 

[DeepOcean]

I have three scenarios:

1 - It is a cinematic walking simulator with basic combat and poor RPG elements

2 - It is a Bloodlines: Human Revolution modern popamole version.

3 - They actually tried to keep or even improve the RPG elements from Bloodlines.

Of the three scenarios, I'm afraid of 1, hopeful for 2 and not expecting 3. If they, at least, reach a mechanical depth of 2 as long they have a decent atmosphere, characters and the gameplay isnt absolute painful dog shit, the game will be playable for me. They could surprise me and we end getting 3 but I long gave up any hopes on that front.

They are talking of neo noir + vampire romanticism, that with you being a fish out of water Elder, of a romantic era on a neo noir enviroment, it could be interesting but it is there where my fear lies.

They didnt use the word RPG a single time on their developer talk trailer, I know there are disciplines, clans and combat what is suggestive of a RPG but even cinematic sludge these days are called RPGs and they used the word storytelling alot what implies a really big focus on storyfaggotry, what wouldnt be surprising as Bloodlines was on the storyfag spectrum of RPGs but I dont want a downgrade of it to be even more storyfag to the point of you pressing W and watching cutscenes.

The whole point of why Bloodlines was interesting was because it was a vampire RPG not simply a vampire story that are out there out of the dozens.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Footnotes from live play:

-There is a character named Nyx, female Gangrel that has ghoul coyotes, uses them as spies and info network.
-Tully the Nosferatu is the guy that helps new people and introduces them into the city.
-There might be a Wraith, or something spooky.
-Malcolm(Makom? Makum?) Bar, defeated Prince's domain. Subtle, upscale, black and gold. (Might be the bar from trailer and first shown set of pictures)
-Lou Graham (big tiddy vamp) is the old Prince. New Prince is someone named Campbell. We don't know how Lou lost praxis.
-Lou lost "something" and is looking to find it.
-There are ghouls missing and Kindred are worried. (This might be game related or liveplay related)

How fight looks like? Clunky as it was? Or improved?

 

[Vincente]

How fight looks like? Clunky as it was? Or improved?

They didn't show a thing from gameplay, these are all stuff I noticed from actual VtM tabletop game they did, which I assume is specifically set in Seattle so they can give clues about story without revealing much.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I want to them to keep the uniqueness of the clans and their own disciplines as they were in 1.
Nosferatu should also be so ugly, deformed that even the game itself censors the image when choosing that clan, with a warning issued if you want to see it. In gameplay this should be translated as basically Thief/Splinter Cell playstyle, moving from shadow to shadow. Willingly showing yourself to random NPCs or quest givers should have the same results as in 1.
The masquerade should also be extremely strict and reinforced, from law enforcement, to hunters, to SI drone strikes on you.
Malkavian perspective needs to be completely rewritten just like in 1.
Honestly, I don't think they'll even reach the same level that vtmb 1 clan gameplay wise had let alone exceed it. Basically I just want an improved vtmb 1, higher expectations like extra clans, diablerie etc. will only lead to disappointment.

 

[Vincente]

extra clans

Don't know if they will exceed Bloodlines' number of clans, but I think they might put in Lasombra, they're like the rising star of V5, people love them.

 

[Roguey]

I have three scenarios:

1 - It is a cinematic walking simulator with basic combat and poor RPG elements

2 - It is a Bloodlines: Human Revolution modern popamole version.

3 - They actually tried to keep or even improve the RPG elements from Bloodlines.

Of the three scenarios, I'm afraid of 1, hopeful for 2 and not expecting 3. If they, at least, reach a mechanical depth of 2 as long they have a decent atmosphere, characters and the gameplay isnt absolute painful dog shit, the game will be playable for me. They could surprise me and we end getting 3 but I long gave up any hopes on that front.

They are talking of neo noir + vampire romanticism, that with you being a fish out of water Elder, of a romantic era on a neo noir enviroment, it could be interesting but it is there where my fear lies.

They didnt use the word RPG a single time on their developer talk trailer, I know there are disciplines, clans and combat what is suggestive of a RPG but even cinematic sludge these days are called RPGs and they used the word storytelling alot what implies a really big focus on storyfaggotry, what wouldnt be surprising as Bloodlines was on the storyfag spectrum of RPGs but I dont want a downgrade of it to be even more storyfag to the point of you pressing W and watching cutscenes.

The whole point of why Bloodlines was interesting was because it was a vampire RPG not simply a vampire story that are out there out of the dozens.

From Sarah Longthorne's website:

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2​

• Acted as lead writer on crit path content, including cutscenes, branching conversations, ambient VO and more
• Designed dialogue systems and branching architecture
• Collaborated with design on the conceptualisation of optional and side content

 

[Joseph King]

3 - They actually tried to keep or even improve the RPG elements from Bloodlines.

I can't imagine what kind of circumstances could make this possible.

 

[RegionalHobo]

trailer looks like shit, but let s be honest a trailer means pretty much nothing. i want to believe

if it s shit than that s that. if anything i m more pissed about the shadowrun franchise being stuck on microsoft void than VTMB tbh, i fear the woke potential in the franchise

 

[user]

This is basically my biggest concern with BL2, Chinese Room has delivered on small and much less iconic games than this that include Everybody's Gone to the Rapture and Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs

I played these and they were fun adventure games but BL2 is supposed to be a grand RPG and I wonder if they can deliver on this type of game

You're wondering for the wrong reasons. For all intents and purposes The Chinese Room have nothing to do with either of those games. It's an entirely new studio, owned by an entirely new parent company, with entirely new employees and leads. The Kingmaker example is quite telling. When Owlcat announced it I didn't really pay attention to it. The studio was new and untested. I was more interesting in Pillars and thought Owlcat was gonna play third fiddle to Obsidian. By the time Wrath came out the tables had turned.

It's right to worry wether this studio can deliver a good game at all. But it's not because of their walking sims. If anything the trailer show they at least want to make something akin to a Bloodlines sequel. The question we are left with it is not 'can the amnesia studio make an rpg?', but rather 'who the fuck are these people?'

Yes, we didn't know how it would turn out, but Owlcat's vision was at least something specific. They wanted to create an authentic pathfinder crpg, like bg, iwd etc.

Unless I am missing something, I've got no clue what they've done with this game.
They talk a lot about narrative and atmosphere, world of darkness style (which is great), but at least for now, I am not hearing much about rpg aspects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2clSTM3UvTo

If the game tries to adopt a Deus Ex formula, which is the most likely case from what I've seen (semi-linear series of mission levels with a couple ways to approach enemies, a bar or something to go to between missions for lore dumps, shop etc), it may turn out to be decent, but I'll be disappointed.

Hope it will at least be semi-open world with hubs like the first one, leaving room for exploration, side quests and plenty of skill checks, to go through with different styles of character builds.

 

[Delterius]

Yes, we didn't know how it would turn out, but Owlcat's vision was at least something specific. They wanted to create an authentic pathfinder crpg, like bg, iwd etc.

There's a good deal of hindsight there. Owlcat said they wanted to make a CRPG. TCR says they want to make a sequel to BL2. There's a lot of leeway in both cases. Not just in terms of vision, but also scope of the project and to what extent either of them can be implemented. The only thing we know about TCR's bloodlines is that it's trailer did not show a walking sim. So really the most pressing issue right now is wether the team can deliver something at all, wether the project is a hackjob or not, wether the project is in dev hell or not, and so on.