World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Vincente]

Someone sent me this, from Bloodlines 2 website.

Now this more than a little weird. This liveplay is from 2020. It was clearly made to be a promo tie in. You have Jason Carl doing his stuff with a bunch of goofs and they all detail the world around them. And yet the Hardsuit BL2 ads seem more focused on Hardsuits'/Mitsoda's additions to the setting. So far the only commonality is Lou herself. Meanwhile the second episode of the liveplay involve them waking up an elder for some unknown use. Sound familiar?

I actually never watched the old liveplay. They all mentioned this stuff in today and yesterday's PAX panel.

 

[Delterius]

Someone sent me this, from Bloodlines 2 website.

Now this more than a little weird. This liveplay is from 2020. It was clearly made to be a promo tie in. You have Jason Carl doing his stuff with a bunch of goofs and they all detail the world around them. And yet the Hardsuit BL2 ads seem more focused on Hardsuits'/Mitsoda's additions to the setting. So far the only commonality is Lou herself. Meanwhile the second episode of the liveplay involve them waking up an elder for some unknown use. Sound familiar?

I actually never watched the old liveplay. They all mentioned this stuff in today and yesterday's PAX panel.

I am watching it right now. Ok more like listening to it while I do stuff. The elder thing was a surprise to me. The very first plot point mirrors the premise behind TCR's protagonist. What.

We had heard about creative differences and Mitsoda sending Paradox updates about a game they didn't want made anymore. i used to think maybe Paradox changed the project scope or even the genre. What are the odds that actually the clash was over world building, and Mitsoda/Hardsuit wanting to have more ownership of the main characters? That would put a whole new light over the removal of the vampire known as Mr Gloves. Roguey what do you say of this.

There is (I was certain PK would be an irrelevant flop too), but at the time they were specific about the genre! These guys are rather vague. Hope I am wrong, but their description as I understand it, is more reminiscent to a, most likely linear, action/adventure game.

Well, depending on how you see it Bloodlines was linear. And not that far off from being action/adventure. Sure the action part sucked, and there were skillchecks. But it wasn't Age of Decadence. It wasn't built around creating different experiences via those skill checks, and passing all of them was a trivial thing.

The real C&C was clan choice. It was all about having to walk through the sewers as a Nosferatu, having voices and special dialogue options as a Malkavian, having special Tremere Chantry content as Tremere, and some minor clan reactions here and there. It was about being able to stealth around easily as a Nossie, and using the sleep spell as Tremere. That sort of reactivity is not really at odds with an action/adventure game.

The trailer has shown us that there will be combat, so it's not a walking sim. If the TCR pictures teasing the in-game UI can still be believed, then the very straightforward character building of this kind of tabletop game is still in. So I'm not wary of the game's genre. At least not yet.

 

[Ismaul]

Here's some concept artwork for TCR's take on Bloodlines 2:

Doesn't really look like Bloodlines in tone at all.

It's all soft colors and muted atmosphere, the opposite of what it was: dark, oppressive, dirty, lived-in. Trailer is in the same tone as the concepts, for both games.

Compare:

 

[SpaceWizardz]

snip

2020s Seattle during a snowstorm is going to be visually distinct from early 2000s LA grunge/nightlife scene.

 

[Roguey]

No sex in the trailer, it will be a flop.

https://gaymingmag.com/2023/09/vamp...lines-2-is-back-with-a-diverse-new-developer/

When we got to the ever-important question of romances, both developers got a bit cagey, not wanting to reveal too much. Though they would not confirm if there will be romances/dateable characters in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2, they did note that there will be “character connections” in the game.


“Like everyone on the narrative team, and actually everyone in the studio in general, we want these characters to feel like people,” Le Bray said. “They all have their own drives their own objectives, their own goals. So they might as well play off the player character and try to feel them out.”

What are the odds that actually the clash was over world building, and Mitsoda/Hardsuit wanting to have more ownership of the main characters? That would put a whole new light over the removal of the vampire known as Mr Gloves. @Roguey what do you say of this.

Wesp teased that Mr. Damp was a character from the first game, in which case the obvious choice is that he's Vandal Cleaver after becoming a Malk.

 

[Harthwain]

In gameplay this should be translated as basically Thief/Splinter Cell playstyle, moving from shadow to shadow. Willingly showing yourself to random NPCs or quest givers should have the same results as in 1.

You mean little to none? Quest givers had a unique starting line but barely more than that, after which it was all business as usual and you had to literally bump into a random NPC in order to have any effect. You could literally walk the streets, because of how much leeway you had with your "apperance range". So much for having to "move from shadow to shadow". I didn't really have to use the sewers when playing as a Nosferatu. Overall it was a big disappointment.

Hope I am wrong, but their description as I understand it, is more reminiscent to a, most likely linear, action/adventure game.

And how non-linear and non-action-y Bloodlines 1 is? There is a divergence point at the end, but other than that there is very little in terms of non-linearity or anything that seriously impacts your run. Which, sadly, is common to heavily narrative-driven RPGs.

 

[The President]

So if I’m understanding this correctly the original game and now the TCR version is supposed to be based on Seattle by night from 2019?

Granted I know nothing about the Larps, this is interesting because maybe mitsoda and crew really departed heavily from V5.

 

[Delterius]

Granted I know nothing about the Larps, this is interesting because maybe mitsoda and crew really departed heavily from V5.

They didn't. In fact they worked together with White Wolf to come up with new concepts like Resonance, both for Vampire as a whole and for BL2. Where there *might* have been conflicts was Seattle itself and the characters of BL2. But this is baseless speculation on my part.

 

[Ismaul]

snip

2020s Seattle during a snowstorm is going to be visually distinct from early 2000s LA grunge/nightlife scene.

And yet it's the Seattle concept art that has all the neons...

Look at BL1's concept art again: it is not about location at all, it's about a mood, an atmosphere. And might I add, the mood in BL1's concepts is consistent with World of Darkness art (before the VtR reboot), BL2 is generic, could be anything.

 

[Cricket McBangle]

So if I’m understanding this correctly the original game and now the TCR version is supposed to be based on Seattle by night from 2019?

Granted I know nothing about the Larps, this is interesting because maybe mitsoda and crew really departed heavily from V5.

I think this Seattle is based in the year it's supposed to come out: 2024.

 

[Herumor]

they're like the rising star of V5, people love them.

Lasombra in Camarilla is so wrong. Not to mention Obtenebration not being what it used to be.

 

[Child of Malkav]

You mean little to none? Quest givers had a unique starting line but barely more than that, after which it was all business as usual and you had to literally bump into a random NPC in order to have any effect. You could literally walk the streets, because of how much leeway you had with your "apperance range". So much for having to "move from shadow to shadow".

My point exactly, they have the opportunity to fix this in vtmb 2. Strict enforcement of that mechanic. Ideally it would play like Thief or Splinter Cell. Ideally...

 

[ColaWerewolf]

My point exactly, they have the opportunity to fix this in vtmb 2. Strict enforcement of that mechanic. Ideally it would play like Thief or Splinter Cell. Ideally...

Only way that would happen is if they made a nosferatu-based stealth game from the start. But that's not gonna happen until the IP gets more widespread popularity.

 

[Roguey]

Troika death marched themselves making the original Bloodlines in three years. Don't expect greater scope, expect it significantly reduced.

Anyway the Hogwarts Legacy writer confirms she joined the team specifically because she wanted to work on the new Bloodlines (much like the Rocksteady programmer did)

I transferred to TCR almost two years ago to work on this project because it was a dream opportunity, and it’s the same for so many who have joined since work began. We have soo many Bloodlines super fans among us. I love this talented team to bits.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Hogwarts Legacy writer

is this a good thing or bad thing? Over all the JK Rowling Drama there really isn't much mention about the content of the game on story.

 

[Roguey]

Hogwarts Legacy writer

is this a good thing or bad thing? Over all the JK Rowling Drama there really isn't much mention about the content of the game on story.

Here's what she specifically wrote, someone who played it would have to comment on the quality

• Wrote and iterated on four main quests, with a focus on Sebastian Sallow—check out Secrets of the Restricted Section!
• Conceptualised and wrote content for Imelda Reyes, a tsundere character designed to inject some much-needed house rivalry and provide the player with incentive to take part in broom races (i.e. to wipe the smirk off her face!)
• Pitched ideas for world events and iterated on their design, with examples including Follow The Butterflies, the Slytherin Common Room window display (and occasional giant squid) and many others
• Wrote dialogue and OST for world events where required, including Ernie Lark’s ‘One Man Band’, the Daily Prophet (examples below), Howlers, Peeves’ interactions and corpse notes

 

[Storyfag]

Granted I know nothing about the Larps, this is interesting because maybe mitsoda and crew really departed heavily from V5.

They didn't.

Except for the Thinblood superpower bonanza needed for all their silly level traversal ideas...

 

[Cross]

Hogwarts Legacy writer

is this a good thing or bad thing? Over all the JK Rowling Drama there really isn't much mention about the content of the game on story.

Here's what she specifically wrote, someone who played it would have to comment on the quality

• Wrote and iterated on four main quests, with a focus on Sebastian Sallow—check out Secrets of the Restricted Section!
• Conceptualised and wrote content for Imelda Reyes, a tsundere character designed to inject some much-needed house rivalry and provide the player with incentive to take part in broom races (i.e. to wipe the smirk off her face!)
• Pitched ideas for world events and iterated on their design, with examples including Follow The Butterflies, the Slytherin Common Room window display (and occasional giant squid) and many others
• Wrote dialogue and OST for world events where required, including Ernie Lark’s ‘One Man Band’, the Daily Prophet (examples below), Howlers, Peeves’ interactions and corpse notes

tsundere

It's confirmed, Bloodlines 2 is going to have absolutely horrible writing.

Granted, for as bad as anime is, it's still probably more dignified than the storytelling in western triple-A games these days. But this is the worst combination of both, a western imitation of anime, which is a particularly awful kind of cringe.

 

[Vincente]

Granted, for as bad as anime is, it's still probably more dignified than the storytelling in western triple-A games these days.

You must not have noticed the bottom of the barrel CGI slop coming out in each season.

 

[sosmoflux]

Too many women involved.
VTMB was about women, not by women.
Confirmed DoA.

 

[Vincente]

Here's what she specifically wrote, someone who played it would have to comment on the quality

I'm gonna parrot opinions I read online but apparently the Sebastian character was one of the high points of character design (story-wise) in the game.

 

[Roguey]

Too many women involved.
VTMB was about women, not by women.
Confirmed DoA.

Narrative design is majority-female for pretty much every RPG developer now. This was even more true for the previous iteration.

 

[processdaemon]

Here's what she specifically wrote, someone who played it would have to comment on the quality

I'm gonna parrot opinions I read online but apparently the Sebastian character was one of the high points of character design (story-wise) in the game.

Yeah he was, the quests weren't amazing or anything but certainly better than everything else in the game. Given how vanilla and safe everything else is she must have had to fight hard to be allowed to put even the tiny amount of edge that that questline had into the game so props to her for that I guess

 

[Roguey]

Here's what she specifically wrote, someone who played it would have to comment on the quality

I'm gonna parrot opinions I read online but apparently the Sebastian character was one of the high points of character design (story-wise) in the game.

Yeah he was, the quests weren't amazing or anything but certainly better than everything else in the game. Given how vanilla and safe everything else is she must have had to fight hard to be allowed to put even the tiny amount of edge that that questline had into the game so props to her for that I guess

Potentially good news for people worried the game's going to be filled with Rudi's Army characters

Worried about the way writers tell stories nowadays, almost sterilized, afraid of offending groups or touching sensitive subjects. Here's hoping you're not in that category. Vtm almost relishes in that, at least it used to

Kindred are hardly savoury, and each character is their own flavour of monster. They are not spokespeople for our ideas, and no ideology is without flaw. We all have to laugh at ourselves.

Once you're embraced, nobody cares about what group you once belonged to, only which you belong to now and where you sit on the hierarchy. Who is using who and for what.

No vampire activists here.

 

[user]

There is (I was certain PK would be an irrelevant flop too), but at the time they were specific about the genre! These guys are rather vague. Hope I am wrong, but their description as I understand it, is more reminiscent to a, most likely linear, action/adventure game.

Well, depending on how you see it Bloodlines was linear. And not that far off from being action/adventure. Sure the action part sucked, and there were skillchecks. But it wasn't Age of Decadence. It wasn't built around creating different experiences via those skill checks, and passing all of them was a trivial thing.

The real C&C was clan choice. It was all about having to walk through the sewers as a Nosferatu, having voices and special dialogue options as a Malkavian, having special Tremere Chantry content as Tremere, and some minor clan reactions here and there. It was about being able to stealth around easily as a Nossie, and using the sleep spell as Tremere. That sort of reactivity is not really at odds with an action/adventure game.

The trailer has shown us that there will be combat, so it's not a walking sim. If the TCR pictures teasing the in-game UI can still be believed, then the very straightforward character building of this kind of tabletop game is still in. So I'm not wary of the game's genre. At least not yet.

Hope I am wrong, but their description as I understand it, is more reminiscent to a, most likely linear, action/adventure game.

And how non-linear and non-action-y Bloodlines 1 is? There is a divergence point at the end, but other than that there is very little in terms of non-linearity or anything that seriously impacts your run. Which, sadly, is common to heavily narrative-driven RPGs.

Really, I don't believe I am looking B1 through rosy glasses or something here, but I think it was decently non-linear given the era it came out.

And that small amount of free-roaming it had, where you could talk to irrelevant npcs, coerce/mug/drink some of them, provoke hunters, rob apartments, discover some quests without these strictly being in your way, find random lore, return to some places just because you got better with a skill to crack something, or meet again npcs and getting slightly different dialogue or progress to their story etc, is pretty important to me. And we are talking about a 2004 game here - one would think a proper sequel should build upon those.

Yes, most of the C&C was clan choice and powers. But how much room for exploration, optional areas and quests would you think those linear missions will have for decent C&C to take place? Or NPCs you choose how to deal with and get special dialogue by being a Malk or Nos? Is traversing the city via sewers and avoiding people so that you don't violate the Masquerade the same with just choosing a more stealthy route on a linear mission to avoid a couple of encounters? Is having at least a little choice about what you tackle next the same with going through a fixed series of 1-2 objectives missions in each playthrough?