VD's Gothic 3 impressions

[Twinfalls]

However, would be correct to say that for those people who loved Daggerfall Gothic 3 is the not-dumbed down, non- morrowind/oblivion retardodized, quasi-sequel they were waiting for?

Yep.

No.

Okay I haven't played it, but I really can't see how this could be the case.

Daggerfall's all about the infinite procedural quests, the character generation, choosing a race, making your own story. It's also equally about Tamriel and the Iliac Bay, with its thousands of towns and its holidays and seasons and books and backstory.

Gothic 3 may be the best of that series, but I don't see how that series is really comparable to Daggerfall, or that it can be seen as any kind of substitute for a true sequel.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Don't tell me how its explained, just tell me if its explained how the orcs turned from being 'Kill all humans on sight!!' to 'We are now your friendly overlords, and won't kill you unless we have to'?

Who said anything about orcs being your friendly overlords? In fact, they are anything, but friendly, and most of them despise humans, although they will respect strong warriors. The reasons for not killing all humans on sight are well-presented, and the front-line orcs will attack you on sight (similar to the G1 orcs) because they see no value in you, unlike their brethrens who have towns to run.

...Gothic 3 may be the best of that series, but I don't see how that series is really comparable to Daggerfall...

Not comparable apple-to-apple style, but somewhere in that ballpark.

 

[elander_]

Yes and i don't see anyone making a Daggerfall true sequel anytime soon with the current tendencies. I mean procedural generated dungeons, templated quests, all the factions and guilds with their own reputation, a world map similar to the board game called Dimplomacy, the land scale and travel times and also very important the lore and the clima of the game, the lore puzzles and the politics. In this sense Gothic 3 shares some similarities with Daggerfall.

I still prefer to wait until people have played Gothic 3 in full with all possible paths before acepting that the plot is as simple as it's claimed. Quests to collect mushrooms are not has bad if they are just an opurtunity for something bigger. Personaly i think every rpg quest should reward the player with a bit of lore or direct the player to some part of the world or close to some secret that would be otherwise not obvious.

 

[Claw]

Siding with the orcs is....appealing? You mean those screaming green horrors from 1 and 2? The screaming horrors that worshipped the Sleeper? :shock:

Wow, it seems the orcs have changed dramatically since the last 2 games.

Well, they speak human now, thus proving their intellectual superiority over the homo sapiens.
But I really don't get how people get this idiotic impression of Orcs. First of all, they were no more agressive than say, bandits. Their hostility was reasonable in the setting, but they could as well have been a human enemy. It's not like you stroll over to the Germans for a chat when playing an allied soldier in BF1942.
They did have a languge, used forged weapons clearly not made for humans andin Gothic 2 metal armor. You could talk to a few Orc characters and in Gothic, create a totem that allowed you to walk among them.
I would never have described them as "screaming horrors" myself.

Don't tell me how its explained, just tell me if its explained how the orcs turned from being 'Kill all humans on sight!!' to 'We are now your friendly overlords, and won't kill you unless we have to'?

I would have preferred no explanation myself, since it's obviously a design decision like Klingons' foreheads, and as far as I know there is no ingame explanation. The devs gave an irrelevant, stupid explanation when challenged by stupid fans, which I shan't reiterate.

 

[Amateur]

...Coming back to a town later on is pointless, since nothing changes, no new developments or quests emerge. Once you have done a city you can forget about it for the rest of the game

Besides the bug discussion this seemed to be the problems many people discussed.

That's the thing I'm talking about for about 6 years(Not in this forum of course).

The Game worlds created today are large in size but static on time. Unfortunately there is nothing going on INDEPENDENT of your actions as TIME passes. Everything is waiting for you to trigger something. And when something finishes nothing is generated to fill its void. So the static world starts to feel smaller and smaller as you finish each quest. And of course at that time the game becomes boring.

About Daggerfall, all I can say is it is a magnificent game and unfortunately Gothic 3 is nowhere near it. But don't get me wrong I think it is one of the best choices for as an RPG game out there.

Repetetive quests does not bother me that much because it is reasonable for similar jobs to appear on different places and time. However searching an not being able to find anything bothers me. In daggerfall we complained about repetetive missions, but since the missions were randomly generated the world never felt that static(also when compared there was a reasonable amount of different type quests), you could always find jobs etc... In todays technology a much much imroved way less repetetive quests can be generated.
Also there was a lot of thing going on as time passes special days, events etc. Even the rep system was quite nicely working. Ahhh such a great great game. But instead of improving that beauty they choose to delete everything...

 

[Elhoim]

Siding with the orcs is....appealing? You mean those screaming green horrors from 1 and 2? The screaming horrors that worshipped the Sleeper? :shock:

Wow, it seems the orcs have changed dramatically since the last 2 games.

Don't tell me how its explained, just tell me if its explained how the orcs turned from being 'Kill all humans on sight!!' to 'We are now your friendly overlords, and won't kill you unless we have to'?

Taken straight from the manual:

"The orcs who first held Nordmar under control and now have Myrtana under their thumb hold nothing in common with the primitive outcasts on Khorinis. These orcs have a highly developed culture based on strength and honor combined with enough intelligence to conduct a campaign that ultimately subjugated the largest realm in the known world, Rhobar’s empire, almost completely."

 

[Human Shield]

In the other Gothic games they had chapter breaks where new issues would pop up with the same areas and characters, where you could come back and see that things have changed and people have moved around.

The Gothic games have a good feeling of camaraderie, you meet up with some of the same characters see how they have adapted. The "Form a ship crew" in Gothic 2 was really cool how many friends you could gather to leave the island.

So is there frequent interaction with the same main characters? Do new issues pop up?

 

[Inziladun]

Do new issues pop up?

Not really. There are quests that trigger more quests, or reactions, obviously. But I havn't really encountered any big Issues popping up yet, however I havn't really completed the first of the Main quests yet.

So is there frequent interaction with the same main characters?

Main characters have nothing to say, unless they have some quest to give you.

Slight spoilers regarding interaction with the Main Characters:

So far i've only seen Milten, which gives you a bit of regurgitated information about the main-quest, Gorn which so far has litterally nothing to say to me, Lee which gives me a quest which Gothic fans have finnally been waiting for, however it's extremely disappointing. Lares who has a few lines that'll send you down memory lane, but only has a quest to offer ya before he becomes yet another face in the crowd. And i've seen Xardas, which has only gave me some fedex style quest that poses as the main storyline thus far.

Needless to say, interaction with Old friends is extremely limited and disappointing. Even Oblivion had more fleshed out Main Characters than this.

I've yet to find Lester, Vatras and Diego which also sailed with the Main Character to the Mainland. So I can't comment on them.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

In the other Gothic games they had chapter breaks where new issues would pop up with the same areas and characters, where you could come back and see that things have changed and people have moved around.

The Gothic games have a good feeling of camaraderie, you meet up with some of the same characters see how they have adapted. The "Form a ship crew" in Gothic 2 was really cool how many friends you could gather to leave the island.

So is there frequent interaction with the same main characters? Do new issues pop up?

No and no.

 

[Stalin]

So in other words the game sucks right? I've been gone a while due to police seizing my marijuana plantation but having read this it seems you people are desperatelly trying to like G3 and it's not giving any loving back. Is it worth a download ( i still haven't DL oblivion mind you )

 

[Jasede]

So in other words the game sucks right? I've been gone a while due to police seizing my marijuana plantation but having read this it seems you people are desperatelly trying to like G3 and it's not giving any loving back. Is it worth a download ( i still haven't DL oblivion mind you )

Wait for a demo, pirating asshole.

 

[Elwro]

A marijuana plantation should have given you enough cash to buy games.

 

[Stalin]

Rich not stupid

 

[fizzelopeguss]

So in other words the game sucks right?

Who said that?

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

Wow, Gothic 3 is starting to sound more like a buggy Oblivion w/ Glorious Revolutions thrown in.

Mmmm.

 

[Sentenza]

Yep, the game is not available in Russia as well still, no talks about CE at all. But what a surprise in Czech there was both a CE and normal game the same day as in UK and DE! And price was really affordable, approx. ~ 30Euro for CE.

Wiki: The Czech Republic (Czech: Česká republika) is a landlocked country in Central Europe and a member state of the European Union

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Well, Ive been browsing the Gothic forums a bit more since I actually consider(ed) to buy the game, so here more stuff coming:


-Unreactive, illogical gameworld.

Example 1: You have a extremly high reputation with the rebels, freed some cities from the orcs, but when you talk to them, they still treat you like a suspicious foreigner. "Bother someone else..you surely have something to do?!" "You better don't make any trouble here"

Example 2: Rebels inside the camps generally do not participate in city revolutions. (Dont know if this is correct, as I said Im just quoting complaints I have read from others)

Example 3: Dead Paladins hung by the orcs are not removed and buried when a city is freed from orcs. (come on, even baldurs gate 2 had this, when you freed the D'Arnise castle from the troll threat).
When you speak to slaves in freed cities they still say things like "psshh..go away or we will get in trouble both"

Example 4: Your enemies also do not particulary react to your deeds. You can start revolutions in multiple orc towns, kill hundreds of them, still the orc leaders will accept you, and not attack you on sight, only treating you with more suspicion.


Connected to the last example, the next point:
-No real story/faction branching: You can basicly work for all three factions all the time, the end sequence is deus-ex style chosen almost at the end of the game without being influenced by your previous behaviour.
No replay value - in other words Oblivionitis.


Again, would be nice if VD and other G3 players here could comment on these points, provided they are far enough advanced in the game.

 

[Twinfalls]

Uh oh.

 

[Gwendo]

Can someone tell me why G3's quests are better than Oblivion's?

 

[Helioth]

Just finished gothic 3 a few days ago and I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed, it has it's ups and downs, great music and outdoors but, as has been said before it's just too much like oblivion in regards to joining all guilds, doing everything first time round.
They said you wouldn't be able to but you can :/

Also,you sometimes have to use marvin mode i.e. cheats or reload to your last save to finish certain parts of the game, nothing you can't get past but. . ., annoying. (spawn npc's e.t.c)
There are three different endings, well that's to say you can end it in three different ways, but the actual end sequences are quite similar, either you destroy adanos' artifacts, bring them to beliar and carry out his will or give them to innos and kill more orcs.
When you go back to their statues you'll be granted a vision into the future, which will vary slightly depending on what you decided to do.
Some pretty, modified pictures pop up too.

I enjoyed it but as with the other gothic games it got too easy. Better than oblivion but still no where near finished / what it could have been.
Oh and I reloaded about twice because of boars, once you use a spear or bow or magic or summon animal's yourself or charm them or just run, they are easy.

You can see that it was rushed at several points, npc's talk about things that you can't do, placeholder items, sometimes the main quest npc's are far too easy and die in one hit, doesn't seem like it was rebalanced.
Vast parts of land without any quests monster or scenery e.t.c.

Sorry, didn't have enough time to make it a short post.

 

[Twinfalls]

or keep out the spoilers it seems.

 

[Ladonna]

Its a good thing I quickly stopped reading.

I know Germany is home of the master race and all, but the game hasn't even gotten to the US or Australia, New Zealand, Asia, etc yet. So please, pretty please, don't be such a fucking cunt and post those types of spoilers up again ok?

Its possible to post your general outlook without the shit you just had to spew.

 

[VenomByte]

Can someone tell me why G3's quests are better than Oblivion's?

I've yet to come across a quest that is significantly better than anything Oblivion has to offer.

The dialogue isn't really any better either. Very linear. The only thing I've noticed is that a handful of quests have the 'refuse' option on quests, as opposed to OB's 'accept now' or 'accept later'.

Choice & consequence is really pretty limited. Nothing you do seems to have any significant bearing on the rest of the world, just your reputation in the city in question. The only real consequences are
1) Dead people can't give you quests
2) If you refuse a quest, you won't always get a chance to change your mind.

On the plus side, there is noticably less hand-holding than Oblivion, and no bloody quest compass.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure you can easily beat any 1v1 arena fight at level 1. Sound familiar?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Well, Ive been browsing the Gothic forums a bit more since I actually consider(ed) to buy the game, so here more stuff coming:


-Unreactive, illogical gameworld.

Example 1: You have a extremly high reputation with the rebels, freed some cities from the orcs, but when you talk to them, they still treat you like a suspicious foreigner. "Bother someone else..you surely have something to do?!" "You better don't make any trouble here"

When you work for a side and get 75 rep in a town, they switch from neutral to "green" they usually say different things, with orc it's like "hunt with honour morra" that sort of thing. with the rebels before you liberate a town (do all the quests for them etc, gather weapons) the slaves will whisper "we're ready!"

Example 2: Rebels inside the camps generally do not participate in city revolutions. (Dont know if this is correct, as I said Im just quoting complaints I have read from others)

I've not liberated many, but the slaves and spy's fight against the orcs, the rebels only send an army out from okara after you've cleared a town. But i'm currently in tarant, and after working with the nomads they've currently left their hill stronghold and are in the ruins outside braga waiting for my signal to attack.

Example 3: Dead Paladins hung by the orcs are not removed and buried when a city is freed from orcs. (come on, even baldurs gate 2 had this, when you freed the D'Arnise castle from the troll threat).
When you speak to slaves in freed cities they still say things like "psshh..go away or we will get in trouble both"

pallys are still strung up, but the freed slaves from what i've seen sound more hopefull.

Example 4: Your enemies also do not particulary react to your deeds. You can start revolutions in multiple orc towns, kill hundreds of them, still the orc leaders will accept you, and not attack you on sight, only treating you with more suspicion.

opposite from what i've heard and seen, they gradually trust you less and then end up KOS, people on this forum have been saying it.

Connected to the last example, the next point:
-No real story/faction branching: You can basicly work for all three factions all the time, the end sequence is deus-ex style chosen almost at the end of the game without being influenced by your previous behaviour.
No replay value - in other words Oblivionitis.

i dunno about that, i know i've missed out on a couple of orc quests because i've been killing them. I know i'll be replaying as an orc merc.

 

[Twinfalls]

The fact that there's some actual fucking conflict and interaction between factions instantly makes it sound more interesting than Oblivion's various groups who blithely carry on without any effect on one another, not to mention as if the stupid demon gates opening up everywhere don't exist either....

 

[Helioth]

What spoilers ? I said what happens but didn't go into detail, like saying. . . you shut the oblivion gates at the end of oblivion, instead of you go to the garden of xynthranophyllthingymybob and kill him to get the amulet to do this and then that so martin can turn into a dragon.
Either way, theres not really much to spoil.

Gothic 3 is more of a naturesim really, wafer thin plotline that plays like some craptastic fanboy mod for lord of the rings.
Your all fucking larpers underneath anyway.
"But It HAveS to be MEANINGFULLL"
It's a pc game, you people expect too much.
bleh.

 

[Twinfalls]

Helioth: Portrait of a Spoiler and Dumbfuck.