Game News Video Games And Male Gaze

[circ]

When you read, write, and speak the number of languages I do at seventeen it is impossible not to mix up the flow and mess up the grammar every now and then. It is quite inevitable. *shrug*

Eh? Peter Ustinov spoke something like 10 languages fluently before that and had no problem getting the accents right or differentiating between them. I myself spoke finnish, swedish and english as a 10 year old and again, had no problems or getting them confused. English does not have some moonspeak grammar structure so that you'd fuck up, please try another excuse.

 

[Sukeban Cho]

Eh? Peter Ustinov spoke something like 10 languages fluently before that and had no problem getting the accents right or differentiating between them. I myself spoke finnish, swedish and english as a 10 year old and again, had no problems or getting them confused. English does not have some moonspeak grammar structure so that you'd fuck up, please try another excuse.

Uh, okay? Most people can't, which is the point. I know six languages quite well and am studying three more at the moment and am just a normal girl, not some singular and particular individual I never heard about before, and have learned most of them on my own. I haven't had the time nor experience to interiorize particularities and detail of each one while also having to care about school, gaming, the gym, fashion, and a social life. *shrug*

In which way is this related to the topic, again? If you want to know more about me take me on a date, though it is probably going to cost you a small fortune.

 

[made]

Boring. Rather tell me more about your gang rape escapades.

 

[circ]

Quite well doesn't mean shit in the real world. I've known people who knew languages better than 'quite well' in their opinion, who then asked me to translate shit when I didn't even speak the language.

 

[Sukeban Cho]

Quite well doesn't mean shit in the real world. I've known people who knew languages better than 'quite well' in their opinion, who then asked me to translate shit when I didn't even speak the language.

And that is important because of what exactly?

 

[circ]

Uh.... yeah...

 

[Sukeban Cho]

So, are we done there? Good.

Non technical discussions over the internet are boring and pointless, so I will not be reading anything else you write. *shrug*

Bye bye.

 

[Excommunicator]

This thread reminds me of those discussions we had about how immature we consider anime to be as an art style.

Ah, I remember when I was still a drog and nomask alt with a long ignore list those days. Good times.

 

[GarfunkeL]

The issue existing doesn't demonstrate fanservice is a problem, it only demonstrate some people believe it is. There are people in the loon house who believes a lot of thing we do not give a shit about, why should we give a shit about this one?

Because those people aren't in a loony house?

I asked for demonstration on it being an actual issue, not on what a bunch of people believes in. What makes their belief more important than the belief of all those who don't believe it to be an issue, for example?

Because the issue isn't something concrete and easily quantifiable, like for example the inability of Saudi women to drive legally or the difficulty Irish women face if they need an abortion.

I am not discussing that, I am arguing against absolute declarations and against guys who decide to talk for what most girls want based on their own belief of what girls want. I.E: THIS IS A PROBLEM, AND GIRLS FEEL THIS WAY!

I never said it wouldn't be nice to have more variety.

However, I kind of asumed you were with the retarded feminists like Roguey on the issue. If you are not, then I am sorry. My bad: I was arguing like if you were.

Ah, then we're pretty much in agreement. Kitty hugs and thingies and stuffies:

Do ugly girls have a say on how their gender is portrayed in video games?

Do they have to have?

Part and parcel of liberal, free, democratic society, I'm afraid.

Then you have articles like these

Obviously what some mostly emasculated "gaming journalist" castrati that give Dragon Age 2 94% calling it the best game ever and calling Skyrim, Gears of War and Mass Defect 3 GOTY! BEST GAEM EVER! as well as the rare few feminist influenced writers have to say on the issue is the epitome of society that should be considered over anyone else, since they obviously know their shit.

You do realize you did the exact same thing you're bitching that THEY are doing, except in reverse?

Are you arguing that there is no problem when it comes to female characters in video games? Because if you just want to be hoopy and vent about the evil feminazis, GD is that way. If, however, you think that the current situation is just fine, do take a breath and explain.

Also, obviously I didn't link to any Central or East European gaming sites because they do not (usually) write in English. It's pretty hard to find sources if you don't know the language.

 

[Marsal]

Are DUMBFUCK! tags still a thing? Couple of worthy recipients in this thread.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

This thread reminds me of those discussions we had about how immature we consider anime to be as an art style.

anime needs to stop objectifying women

male otaku gaze

 

[Excommunicator]

I wasn't able to appreciate the passive aggressive satire in those days

 

[sgc_meltdown]

is that what they call sarcasm these days my dear disfellowshipper

 

[Redlands]

Left hand. Right hand. Either way, my face is getting palmed.

 

[Jasede]

Three hasidim are bragging about their Rebbes: "My rebbe is very powerful. He was walking once, and there was a big lake in his path. He waved his handkerchief, and there was lake on the right, lake on the left, but no lake in the middle." To which the second retorted, "That's nothing. My rebbe is even more powerful. He was walking once, and there was a huge mountain in his path. He waved his handkerchief, and there was mountain on the right, mountain on the left, but no mountain in the middle!" Said the third, "Ha! That is still nothing! My rebbe is the most powerful. He was walking once on Shabbos (Saturday, the holy day in Judaism, on which it is forbidden to handle money), and there was a wallet crammed full of cash in his path. He waved his handkerchief, and it was Shabbos on the right, Shabbos on the left, but not Shabbos in the middle!"

 

[Black]

Wow, that one was bad.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Wow, that one was bad.

 

[Mrowak]

Again what is your position in this and what basis do you have to support it?

I kind of expected you knew me well enough already as to understand that by yourself.

What I expected here was the clarification with regard to the topic and to what I wrote. Like "WTF are we debating?" or "We are talking about two different things, aren't we?" However, you provided exactly that with the discussion with GarfunkeL...

I never said it wouldn't be nice to have more variety.

However, I kind of asumed you were with the retarded feminists like Roguey on the issue. If you are not, then I am sorry. My bad: I was arguing like if you were.

...so I won't press the point. I don't think neither GarfunkeL nor I are retarded feminists who'd clense everything with holy rage and fire. It doesn't change the fact that we would like to see the medium develop in a different direction, and sticking to this old tired formula does little to impress us.

However, this summary of yours is mighty interesting I must say - it does conclude your opinion in the previous discussion we had quite neatly.

Spoiler

I believe there's little to life beyond pleasure and fun: No truth, no knowledge, no morality, no virtue, no quality. Nothing but the satisfaction of arbitrary lusts and the prolongation of existence itself by the sake of nothing but existence and the satisfaction of even more arbitrary lusts. This is one of the most demonstrable assumptions there are as the only thing other than the observer herself that can be demonstrated to exist are the observer's own senses, limited and untrustworthy as they may be, so why not take advantage of them?

To not get carried away in the ebbs and flows of belief, ideology, social trends, marketing, and more one must be able to cut through all arguments in a single stroke so that the mind becomes an inexpugnable fortress no alien idea can enter without explicit permission. This is possible, as I argued before, because all arguments are based on assumptions. That will be obvious for anyone who has been tutored in rethoric or has been part of a debate group: It is impossible for the Devil's Advocate to lose as long as she does not accept certain assumptions as true for the sake of argument itself. In a free debate with no previous assumptions accepted the Devil's Advocate -always- wins. It follows: All arguments come from assumptions, and thus all declarations are worthless as truth.

I am just the devil's advocate, I have no point beyond "The shadow of a doubt remains, LOL, what you say is of no importance."

Thus I debate for the XP I need to level up the fortress protecting my mind from all ideal and conceptual entities other than those I enjoy hanging out with, the simple pleasure of being smarter than other people who can't into logic all the while they actually believe to be smarter than me because I am a kitty cat and I meow meow meow, the cruel enjoyment of knowing I can't lose yet watching them try all the same, and because it is fun to see what new shit people can come up with to justify their baseless beliefs even when you already know there is nothing that can justify it other than assumptions you can cut through in a single stroke.

I -am- a cat after all. Did you expect an answer beyond 'cause it's fun and it feeds my ego?

I also do so because when all is said and done I -am- a servant of the left hand, and little else anymore. And every now and then, like when I argue with you, I actually am trying to show you how completely retarded you are being and how much you are missing on because you are not able to free yourself from the ebbs and flows of belief, ideology, social trends, marketing, and shit. Every thing you don't enjoy because of your baseless beliefs is pleasure you lose based on worthless assumptions, and the experience of pleasure is far more real than all those little ideals you nurture.

As I consider myself your friend is my duty to help you see that.

As much as I like your reasoning here, your view on things simply does not agree with me. This is going to be reiterating a lot, and yes this are my personal opinions - equally valid as yours, so no DA please - it would be as valid as if I used one in here.

Spoiler

I see what you've been doing - denying every statement by refusing to make your own apart from the abovesaid opinion. The thing is your Devil's Advocate is extremely defensive stance that cuts through everything that comes your way but does nothing to actually help you act. Everything can be handwaved with "It's just your opinion, mang!", but that's not a point of any debate - not to have one at all - unless you head out trolling witching on us - which you did. This can be self-defeating in the long run as the only thing it proves is - everything is uncertain. Ok, so what?

You answer is: "so do what your senses tell you that gives you pleasure - this one thing is the closest to the objective truth we know".

My answer is: "so we take what we have and create our own truth, building from the fragments we have whether it gives us pleasure or not. Since we can't preceive the objective truth we'll make-do with this."

And so we use those ideologies, social trends, marketing and shit to make contexts out of it which later serve us as "anchor points". Because they bolster communication and further development there's inherent value in them. On the surface this is limiting - being told what to do, how to behave and such. The problem is recognizing those anchor points for what they are. To do your duty because you were told to is foolish. To do your duty because you chose to do it seeing the bigger picture is noble. How does one come about making such a choice, however? Well, what's a discussion for, if not to see there's something beyond you?

That's how I liberate myself from ebbs and flows of all kinds - even in conversations like this one (count your objectives as accomplished in this sense - so you've fulfilled your duty my friend ). This, coupled with healthy distance to yourself and a solid dose of self-irony are powerful tools that free one from the constraints of our own worldviews which makes us capable of taking advantage of them to shape the reality as we see it fit. Without contraries is no progression.

Yeah, hardly world-shattering or original view, but it was not supposed to be.

And that's all...

 

[DwarvenFood]

Let me try and explain how I feel after following this thread from page 1 over the last couple of days:

 

[Sukeban Cho]

Because the issue isn't something concrete and easily quantifiable, like for example the inability of Saudi women to drive legally or the difficulty Irish women face if they need an abortion.

If the issue is not something concrete and easily quantifiable how can we be sure there is an actual issue to begin with? If we can't measure the existence of the issue how can we say anything beyond that there may be an issue and there may not be an issue? In other words the issue is only perceived by a small group of people who is unable to demonstrate it's existence beyond personal interpretation.

From the exact same situation you could argue, for example, that the problem lies in them not being able to fit and function in the same context and system most girls do fit and function in. Why are we claiming, then, for them to be heard instead of for them to receive professional help so they can join society instead of being partially out of it, as we do with others suffering from such problems and delusions?

I am -not- saying this is what happens. However, as long as we can't quantify and measure the issues both are equally invalid. The point being that if something is neither concrete nor quantificable how can you claim it's existance outside the mind of those who perceive it?

To put it in a different way what's so different between, say, someone believing fanservice is a problem and someone believing God is sitting on a cloud and watching you touch yourself over furry porn? Why should we pay more attention to this one than to that one, from a logical perspective, when you can quantify and measure neither other than by the strenght of their respective followers belief?

Ah, then we're pretty much in agreement. Kitty hugs and thingies and stuffies:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, then.

[system] Black Cat influence gained.

Part and parcel of liberal, free, democratic society, I'm afraid.

Part and parcel of a democratic and free market society is to let them have a voice, yes, but it is also so that their will is secondary to the will of the many as long as they aren't the many. More people prefers to buy such a product than people prefers to buy a different one, and thus the first group gets what they want and the second group whines about how they didn't ask for this. Everything's right and the world is working just as intended.



If the issue were so big there would not be issue to begin with as it would make business sense to make more for them and less for the others.



And I'm sorry if I got too defensive a moment earlier, I just got confused and lost on having to switch gears and thought patterns all of a sudden.

My answer is: "so we take what we have and create our own truth, building from the fragments we have whether it gives us pleasure or not. Since we can't preceive the objective truth we'll make-do with this."

That's fine, but I still don't understand the point. If you can obtain pleasure from A, why add extra layers of interpretation and filtering between your pleasure and your mind, so that now you can only obtain pleasure from A under particular conditions? An example: I have this one friend who enjoys doing stuffies with guys and whose friends will clearly tell you dating her is accepting she will be doing stuffies with other guys every time she's bored, depressed, or feels like it regardless of how madly in love she's with you. What would be the point of her creating a structure that controls and defines when she's allowed to enjoy doing stuffies with guys, when all that would do is limiting the amount of stuffies she can do with guys and thus reduce the net pleasure she's obtaining from it?

By adding conditions to simple things you are only making more difficult your own pursuit of pleasure. By removing conditions and making things simpler you are making easier your own pursuit of pleasure. If we accept pursuing pleasure is one of the few things that make sense, as both of us defined our points of view by how we act upon the pursuit of pleasure, is it not smarter to make getting as much pleasure as possible simple instead of hard? Make one pleasure easy to get, get it until you are burned out, then move on to a different easy to get pleasure. The net pleasure is higher than it would be by adding extra conditions that govern how to obtain and when it is right to obtain it.

And just to make myself clear we are discussing perceptions of reality now, so don't worry too much about rethorical devices and fallacies.

 

[Johannes]

If the issue were so big there would not be issue to begin with as it would make business sense to make more for them and less for the others.

The problem is just that there's hardly anyone doing games with good, non-derivative writing at the moment. So we can't really tell whether it could be a profitable venture or not to focus more on that.

 

[Sukeban Cho]

The problem is just that there's hardly anyone doing games with good, non-derivative writing at the moment. So we can't really tell whether it could be a profitable venture or not to focus more on that.

They tried making them, and every now and then someone tries yet again. They never go beyond being a niche, though.

 

[Mrowak]

Again, sorry for the delay but it's the tornado season in Potatoland and certain things flying in my way could not be evaded.

Edit: Having read this shit again I see it's potentially a GD matrial and since it's off-topic... DELETED.

Edit 2:

The problem is just that there's hardly anyone doing games with good, non-derivative writing at the moment. So we can't really tell whether it could be a profitable venture or not to focus more on that.

They tried making them, and every now and then someone tries yet again. They never go beyond being a niche, though.

This niche needs to exist first and be big enough in order that those games can be created for it. Which is our job.

 

[almondblight]

And also get exposure. Games live and die by exposure. Every time I see Omega Syndrome get mentioned, people talk about how it looks great and wonder why they haven't heard of it before. Vic Davis talked about how a lot of the success Armageddon Empires received was from exposure on Penny Arcade. It doesn't matter if a game is great, if no one knows about it it won't get anywhere.

 

[Marsal]

Edit: Having read this shit again I see it's potentially a GD matrial and since it's off-topic... DELETED.

Too late. Updated my Mrowak.txt.