KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[ushas]

Glad you like it. That's the present set up, need tier 2 subjects to find lieutenants, need lieutenants to find bosses, but it's very much a sketch for now. Rackets will also likely serve as sources for intel on the gang's leadership. You're right that it would be possible to take out one gang earlier than the others, the snag is that while you are focusing on one gang, the others are becoming more powerful. It's going to require some play testing to get a feel for, and strike a good balance.

Yeah, regardless how much of the campaign systems are already in the code implemented, once everything you wanted is in I would really recommend reserve as much time as possible for iteration.

Btw. any ETA for the rest of the party members?

The dead enemy illustration went a bit further into the right of the screen than intended, so it's going to require some adjustments to layout - some combination of changing size and position.

Oh, don't know why I didn't realized that's the dead one Well in that case perhaps there won't be an interrogation element with numbers needed at all...

 

[Timeslip]

Yeah, regardless how much of the campaign systems are already in the code implemented, once everything you wanted is in I would really recommend reserve as much time as possible for iteration.

Am with you on that. Vigilantes is getting close to the point where the focus needs to (and will) shift from features to content, balancing, and polish. I've played more than a few games where the scope was obviously too big for the resources and while that desire to reach further than you should be able is admirable, it hurts the overall quality of the game. It's more important to have a dozen meaningful, balanced, and interconnected features, than a sprawl of a hundred poorly realised ideas.

Btw. any ETA for the rest of the party members?

There's not a lot of work in adding the 3 additional allies. Need to check their intro scripts, the encounter scripts, make a final decision on their unique perk, and find a voice actor. No firm ETA yet, but one could be added in any upcoming update.[/QUOTE]

Oh, don't know why I didn't realized that's the dead one Well in that case perhaps there won't be an interrogation element with numbers needed at all...

Still have to allow players who have opted to kill everyone the chance to find the gang leaders. Most probably will be a shorter sequence where you can search an enemy with a smaller chance of getting intel.

 

[Timeslip]

You need a Jack from China Town as well:

With broken nose and all.

Watched it at the weekend. Really, really liked it.

 

[Timeslip]

Here's the illustration for the final facility: the firing range. The 5 levels of the firing range incrementally buff the team's firearm skill, damage, and at higher levels, the instinct stat. The range also doubles as a bullet press, so bullets will soon no longer be crafted in the workshop. Finally, higher level upgrades have a chance of providing free bullets of different types on a daily basis. Here's Olga's illustration of the level 4 facililty:

On the development front, have completed a provisional implementation of the facilities, so you'll be able to check them out in version 17. If you have any comments or questions, fire away!

 

[ushas]

Here's the shot:
IIRC, now in the game Sam's skills increase by doing, even by doing of his comrades, but other party members have predefined their skill paths regardless what they do, provided they can do at all. Etc. With home facilities slowly settling down though, do you plan to revise party leveling in some near future, like in v17 or the next build?

Am with you on that. Vigilantes is getting close to the point where the focus needs to (and will) shift from features to content, balancing, and polish. I've played more than a few games where the scope was obviously too big for the resources and while that desire to reach further than you should be able is admirable, it hurts the overall quality of the game. It's more important to have a dozen meaningful, balanced, and interconnected features, than a sprawl of a hundred poorly realised ideas.

^Hear, Hear! Interconnection if only more often was given the priority. First comes to mind time-flow - too often featured and yet too often under-featured. At least outside strategy or tabletop gaming I guess. So that simulation aspect of the gang grow goes a long way. You're not making it easy for yourself, that said.

As I already brought time to the table:
(1) What about missions themselves cost time based on number of turns it took us to finish them? To maintain an omnipresent time pressure, yet leaving the management in the player's hands.
(2) At the mission ending - searching, lockpicking and interrogation actions could also stand some time toll.
(3) Do facilities have a running cost?
(4) Could misunderstood how facilities work, so take this with a grain of salt:

-- Would be interesting if an incapacitated ally was required to spend a considerable time in infirmary, because otherwise healing would be very slow.
-- Likewise, for skill and stat buffs, will it take some time to train or is it all a background bonus?​

Also liked Alienman's idea. Perhaps a character type like Jake be an investigative reporter? Getting roughed up by one of the gangs he is after (would randomly roll which one at the beginning). Then *something, something in Chinatown, we do a mission related to him*. Some time later he sends an email with some revealing intel on the gang. Provided the library has internet access at that moment, not sure if it isn't one of the upgrades, haven't see an ethernet cable. Or he can also write an article in the local newspapers.

 

[Timeslip]

Here's the shot:
IIRC, now in the game Sam's skills increase by doing, even by doing of his comrades, but other party members have predefined their skill paths regardless what they do, provided they can do at all. Etc. With home facilities slowly settling down though, do you plan to revise party leveling in some near future, like in v17 or the next build?

Yes, am going to take another look at the character system over the next few updates. Training at the facilities was considered, but there were balancing issues based on how the character system is set up. Best guess: you'll get so many skill points to distribute on levelling up - this won't be enough to completely change the direction of your allies' tendencies, but it will allow you to specialise them to some degree, fortify their strengths or address weaknesses.

^Hear, Hear! Interconnection if only more often was given the priority. First comes to mind time-flow - too often featured and yet too often under-featured. At least outside strategy or tabletop gaming I guess. So that simulation aspect of the gang grow goes a long way. You're not making it easy for yourself, that said.

Tell me about it

As I already brought time to the table:
(1) What about missions themselves cost time based on number of turns it took us to finish them? To maintain an omnipresent time pressure, yet leaving the management in the player's hands.
(2) At the mission ending - searching, lockpicking and interrogation actions could also stand some time toll.
(3) Do facilities have a running cost?
(4) Could misunderstood how facilities work, so take this with a grain of salt:

-- Would be interesting if an incapacitated ally was required to spend a considerable time in infirmary, because otherwise healing would be very slow.
-- Likewise, for skill and stat buffs, will it take some time to train or is it all a background bonus?​

1. Have considered it. Noticed many people didn't like the time pressure in XCom 2. This idea isn't as severe - possible that time could be modified slightly based on turns, will think some more about t.
2. Will keep in mind.
3. No running cost, just a set up cost.
4. Infirmary, among other things increases the healing rate. Could be interesting to specifically put some one in it for a greater bonus though. It's currently all a background bonus, which your team gets when completing facility.​

Also liked Alienman's idea. Perhaps a character type like Jake be an investigative reporter? Getting roughed up by one of the gangs he is after (would randomly roll which one at the beginning). Then *something, something in Chinatown, we do a mission related to him*. Some time later he sends an email with some revealing intel on the gang. Provided the library has internet access at that moment, not sure if it isn't one of the upgrades, haven't see an ethernet cable. Or he can also write an article in the local newspapers.

Interconnected missions is something I'd really like to do. The escort mission character is a journalist, and the hope was for him to contact you after escorting him with a prompt for another mission, or intel. This is something may look at post EA, time is pretty much allocated for next 2+ months!

 

[Timeslip]

Here's a look at a survivalist facility map, just finished last night.

 

[ArchAngel]

As I already brought time to the table:
(1) What about missions themselves cost time based on number of turns it took us to finish them? To maintain an omnipresent time pressure, yet leaving the management in the player's hands.
(2) At the mission ending - searching, lockpicking and interrogation actions could also stand some time toll.
(3) Do facilities have a running cost?
(4) Could misunderstood how facilities work, so take this with a grain of salt:

-- Would be interesting if an incapacitated ally was required to spend a considerable time in infirmary, because otherwise healing would be very slow.
-- Likewise, for skill and stat buffs, will it take some time to train or is it all a background bonus?​

1. Have considered it. Noticed many people didn't like the time pressure in XCom 2. This idea isn't as severe - possible that time could be modified slightly based on turns, will think some more about t.
2. Will keep in mind.
3. No running cost, just a set up cost.
4. Infirmary, among other things increases the healing rate. Could be interesting to specifically put some one in it for a greater bonus though. It's currently all a background bonus, which your team gets when completing facility.​

1. Time limits in Xcom 2 were not liked because they would cause losses of whole missions and squads on those missions. But for example expansion for Xcom 1 had the Meld system which was also a time based system as Meld canisters would go Puff if you were too slow. But you could still finish the mission and be successful even if you didn't pick up all Meld canisters. And nobody complained about how that system works. Or in Xcom 2 when enemies drop loot you have 2 or 3 turns to pick it up. Again if you fail you can still finish the mission. So you don't need to implement mission fail time limits but implementing something that gives a benefit to faster/better players would be good.

 

[Timeslip]

1. Time limits in Xcom 2 were not liked because they would cause losses of whole missions and squads on those missions. But for example expansion for Xcom 1 had the Meld system which was also a time based system as Meld canisters would go Puff if you were too slow. But you could still finish the mission and be successful even if you didn't pick up all Meld canisters. And nobody complained about how that system works. Or in Xcom 2 when enemies drop loot you have 2 or 3 turns to pick it up. Again if you fail you can still finish the mission. So you don't need to implement mission fail time limits but implementing something that gives a benefit to faster/better players would be good.

Ah, good to know. Haven't played much Xcom 2 (fired it up for a few hours last weekend) so didn't really understand the system very well. Losing a squad is a really severe penalty. A more moderate incentive to complete missions quickly may well be worth a look.

 

[ushas]

Interesting. Was it like that on many missions? I admit haven't played new xcoms yet.

IIRC, spawning for units is already in the code, right? A turn-limited loot might add some twist too, not sure how hard to implement though. However, I think even soft time limits like these might feel more meaningful if used sporadically, so missions will vary and not be samey. If reinforcements are coming on each battle, one won't recognize this as a new challenge any more when happens during a facility attack.

1. Have considered it. Noticed many people didn't like the time pressure in XCom 2. This idea isn't as severe - possible that time could be modified slightly based on turns, will think some more about t.

It's just about systematically influencing the strategy layer. For example, if one turn equals 10 min, difference between somebody who ends a mission in 6 turns and somebody else who ends in 12 will be just 1 hour. One mission won't matter much, but many could. The time-cost being subject to balance change, of course. This one is probably too mild.

Interconnected missions is something I'd really like to do. The escort mission character is a journalist, and the hope was for him to contact you after escorting him with a prompt for another mission, or intel. This is something may look at post EA, time is pretty much allocated for next 2+ months!

Yeah, wasn't about to guess a profession of the guy running around wearing only shorts and gun.

Spoiler

Seeing how you name stuff and such, he can pretty much pass us his collected intel on a CD with the label "Lady Gege"

 

[Timeslip]

Most of the missions seem to be. Yep am leaning more toward the idea of time being modified by turns- would be inclined to have a minimum of x hours, and increase from here based on turns. Would be a good way to reward efficient builds and tactics.

Whoops, forgot to replace that model! Was a little pressed for time that day, and used one of the existing characters (also appears in "The Hit" encounter) - will see if he can be convinced to put some clothes more fitting to his profession.

 

[ushas]

And here I thought that we're rescuing him from that car. But I confess not knowing the proper dress code for being abducted in a trunk occasion.

Yep am leaning more toward the idea of time being modified by turns- would be inclined to have a minimum of x hours, and increase from here based on turns. Would be a good way to reward efficient builds and tactics.

Yes, this. [T succumbed, my mission complete, time to switch the sides...]

Possible problem (or not): This will factor in the decision to retreat (time lost pre fleeing vs. potentially saved from post), as well as being harmed, loosing most of the loot, an option to interrogate, an objective (although seems the number of drowned enemies before fleeing goes into lowering the crime, neat!). Still, if it's too punishing more players will be inclined to reload an autosave instead. Though I suppose retreating doesn't need to be for everybody.

 

[Timeslip]

This is how this character will look:

Yeah, will have to look at that side of it too. Guess fleeing will pretty much be a last resort, and preferable to having your team out of action longer term. Am currently working on adding enemy facilities (rackets), and the optimist in me is saying the main enemy rackets (which houses each gang's boss) could be coded with a fair wind today.

 

[ushas]

"fleeing will pretty much be a last resort" - Tsk tsk, idealistic humans...
Ask any rat commander about the art of tactical retreat.



As it happens, The Enforcer (1951, Humphrey Bogart) is already on the Archive, in case of interest:
https://archive.org/details/ThEfrcer1951

As for the Murder, Inc. inspiration, it's supposed to be more fictionalized than the other movie, Murder, Inc. (1960, based on the book by Turkus & Feder).

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Timeslip]

"fleeing will pretty much be a last resort" - Tsk tsk, idealistic humans...
Ask any rat commander about the art of tactical retreat.

As it happens, The Enforcer (1951, Humphrey Bogart) is already on the Archive, in case of interest:
https://archive.org/details/ThEfrcer1951

As for the Murder, Inc. inspiration, it's supposed to be more fictionalized than the other movie, Murder, Inc. (1960, based on the book by Turkus & Feder).

Looking into the possibility of creating a situation whereby you pretty much have to withdraw, but that will be a little further down the line. Nice, will check it out.

Cheers for posting Infinitron

 

[anus_pounder]

Nothing to say, just checking in to brofist some posts and wish you good luck again. <3

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks anus_pounder - really appreciate the well wishes!

Just back from a week's hiatus (family wedding, no getting out of those ). Have just finished setting up the bonuses from the secondary rackets. There are currently 8 rackets in total (3 main, 5 secondary), which provide varying buffs, equipment and economic bonuses. Still have to work on code for setting up battles in rackets and saving/loading rackets. Then the gang AI needs to be revised, so each gang will purchase upgrades and build rackets according to their needs. It's something of a difficulty spike in coding, a lot of loose ends have to be tied up to get the rackets and gang AI working. Usually, half a dozen scripts might be open to be worked on and referenced, right now, there are 19 open. There's light at the end of the tunnel though: once this update is complete, everything (from a gameplay perspective) that needs to be in Vigilantes will be implemented.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks Infinitron

Here are the update notes:

Features
+ Added 5 facilities (Workshop, Library, Gym, Firing Range, Surgery). Facilities can be upgraded 5 times and provide a variety of skill and stat bonuses, buffs, and free items on a timed basis
+ Added 8 enemy rackets (3 Bases + 5 secondary rackets)
+ Re-integrated gang AI, which will build rackets and purchase upgrades, according to the gang's needs

Content
+ New map: survivalist bunker map
+ New map: black market facility

Balancing & Tweaks
+ Increased size of city map to 8x8

Bug Fixes
+ Fixed issue with cursor becoming locked occasionally when going menu -> back to combat.
+ Fixed issue with post mission looting / interrogation (Thanks Nomad, ushas)
+ Fixed issue with interrogating dead enemies. (Thanks Ushas)
+ Fixed issue with shop screen order price not being reset when exiting shop screen. (Thanks RedXIII)
+ Fixed issue with escort mission, with full (x4) party. (Thanks Ushas)
+ Fixed issue with shotgun strafing. (Thanks Ushas)
+ Fixed issue with animation states when strafing from cover to fire.

As you can guess from the time it took, this was one of the more difficult and work intensive updates. Player facilities were fairly easy, but gang rackets and the gang strategic AI took a lot of work, mostly because they needed to interact with code in a lot of different places. To make things more interesting, the gang AI code was written a long time ago and disabled shortly after, so a lack of familiarity and changes in the interim made progress slower. The good news is that the Gang AI make decisions in response to the player's actions, so attacking a gang intensively can change which upgrades they will purchase, which rackets they will buy, and their recruitment levels.

Had forgotten about this, but had also added preliminary code for moving gang lieutenants around and setting up ambushes, the idea being if you bug a gang enough, and act predictably, they will send a lower level gang leader out to hunt you. Can't say for certain yet, but pretty sure this could be added in a relatively small amount of time. Curious to know if you think this would be a worthwhile addition?

 

[ArchAngel]

Sounds good.

 

[Timeslip]

A quick update: currently working on ranged overwatch. It's working for regular shots and firing from full cover, will move on to test how it works with multiple overwatching characters soon. There are 2 (minor) caveats a) only one overwatch attack can be made per tile the character moves through and b) shotguns will not have a cone of fire when used in overwatch. While it's not a sure thing yet, it would be a shame to get this far with an overwatch system, and not introduce it as a feature, so it is likely.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

How will overwatch work?
Will character that uses it shoot every character that comes into range, or will there additional variables when using that ability?7
Like pre-set cone-of-fire or some stat check?

 

[Timeslip]

At the minute, if the character has line of sight to the enemy, they will fire on them. The overwatch character can also strafe to an adjacent tile, if they don't have LOS from their current tiles. The way overwatch is handled makes using a cone of fire difficult. Tried this solution as it seemed the most promising way of adding the feature. Not sure about stat checks on overwatch, it could be frustrating. Any thoughts on this?

Am also hoping to add attacks of opportunity in this update, which (if they can be added) will have a stat based chance of activating.

 

[thesheeep]

Not sure about stat checks on overwatch, it could be frustrating. Any thoughts on this?

Hitting a target or not is already stat-based (I assume, sorry, haven't followed everything too closely), so I'm not sure introducing another stat check would make sense. After all, the player already forfeits some resources for going into overwatch (I assume) - and then you're not even guaranteed a shot? I don't think I'd like that.

Am also hoping to add attacks of opportunity in this update, which (if they can be added) will have a stat based chance of activating.

Why? Usually attacks of opportunity happen automatically in order to prevent characters running back in forth in combat.
It would also be inconsistent if overwatch attacks require no checks to trigger but AoO do. After all, they are very similar mechanics.