Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War - turn-based 4X from Slitherine

[Lacrymas]

I played the AM against all the other base game factions on very hard difficulty on small maps in the last few days and I have thoughts. Either they have been buffed (specifically ratlings) or everyone else has been nerfed (or I finally learned how to play them). They are in quite a good spot now imo, the unit DLCs really bumped up their early game. The combo of ratlings + chimeras is surprisingly decent, perhaps even *gasp* a tad overpowered. Ratlings do disgusting damage to early units, even heroes, and chimeras do a good job at defending them, especially since ratlings can move after attacking. The newest AM unit, the Devil Dog, fills the large gap between the Chimera and Basilisk in terms of useful tanks (the Hydra is anti-air, which is very situational in early-game), but it's not super strong or anything. At least I haven't found the niche in which it can excel. All in all, setting up "overwatch bulwarks" is what trips the AI quite a lot. Ratlings are stupidly effective at that and just decimate everyone who gets in firing range because you can set up 3-4 rows of ratlings that all attack once someone gets into their line of sight due to their ridiculous range and high damage.

I'm going to try playing on ultra hard to see how that's going to unfold because last time I couldn't defeat anyone unless it was a mirror match. The orks were the toughest to beat on very hard btw, but that's only because they spammed cities for some reason. Hopefully the AI will put up more of a fight. If that turns out too frustrating or even impossible, I'm just going to play against 2 AIs on very hard.

 

[Hobo Elf]

AM has always been one of the strongest armies in the game, although they did get toned down a lot a few years ago. Their tankspam game was too strong. I do agree that the unit DLC has been particularly kind to them as well. Chimera being one of the most useful additions.

 

[Lacrymas]

If you can get to their strong units, yes, but since I've only played on small maps their weak early-game was particularly noticeable. It's pretty fine now, I'd say. Chimeras provide damage and mobility, while Ratlings provide range and damage. I have to read the most recent patch notes because Ratlings feel more powerful than they used to be. Yeah, if you are playing against a player who knows how to counter them they aren't that good, but AI loves to run straight into overwatch range with their vulnerable infantry. What I'm really impressed by is how all the units have a role and there's no clear overlap between them. I suspect PvP gets quite ferocious if the players know what they are doing. I still think this needs some kind of campaign, though. I'd even take a conquest-style one where you take over Gladius Prime alla Dawn of War Dark Crusade/Soulstorm.

 

[Lacrymas]

This is the enemy force I thought I was winning against at one point. I tried a game on ultra hard and it didn't go as well as I wanted it to. Like I said, I thought I was winning at one point and was just mopping up, but I kept losing units steadily even though I killed at least 3 of theirs for 1 death on my side, so I neglected getting higher tier units and didn't build a third city, so their devestators and vindicators chewed through my comparatively weaker units. I was also sandwiched between terrible strategic points, I couldn't damage them properly due to forests and elevations not in my favor. I still think their unit production is out of control with the amount of loyalty ultra hard gives the AI. I'm going to try to beat the AI one more time with standard settings on ultra hard, but if it doesn't work I'm going 1v2 on very hard. The problem is that it's hard to tell whether I'm just bad or the map settings are against me, or ultra hard and impossible are bullshit in general and not designed to be won, or the AM are just weak against ultra hard AI, or something else entirely. Any feedback would be appreciated, lol.

ЕDIT: The military overview does say that I had the upper hand at one point, but they shot up their unit production drastically -

Maybe I didn't capitalize on that advantage and had to push more. I kind of remember when that was, but I couldn't really push more because the terrain around their base was extremely hostile to me. Maybe it's just a matter of gitting gud.

 

[Lacrymas]

I finally managed to win on ultra hard as the IG against something other than another IG faction. I did it on a medium map against the Spess Mareens by rushing Leman Russ tanks and spamming ore extractors in all my cities to sustain them. I didn't build a single barracks because soldiers drop off in effectiveness as the game goes on and I thought I had enough time to get tanks instead (which I did). I even managed to get out a Baneblade at the end, but I artificially prolonged the game by surrounding their city in order to see it. 320 ore for a single Baneblade is rough, but it does have more than double the hp of a fully leveled up Leman Russ and even Tank Commander. I didn't see it in action though, because my city was surrounded by forests and surprise, surprise, tanks aren't very good at traversing those even with the upgrade that lets them ignore tough terrain. It would've taken me 10 turns to get it to the front lines and I said fuck it.

I've played this game for 65 hours at this point with ONLY the Astra Militarum and I still haven't used or even seen all their units (especially their fliers) or faced off against anything other than the base game factions (even though I have all the DLC). Frankly, I think that's amazing and top-of-the-line faction design. I now believe chuft when he says he has only played the space marines for 200 hours, there really is *that* much to a single faction, especially when we take different map settings into consideration. If anyone is sleeping on this game, don't. The base game goes on sale for peanuts extremely frequently and it alone can provide an excellent experience (IG early game is shit without Chimeras and Ratlings, though, but the other base factions are fine). I do think the game would've benefited from a "real" story campaign or scenarios (even though playing with no opponents for the story quest is basically that, but you know what I mean) and some scripted encounters, but even only skirmishes are ok, and you can technically come up with a campaign of your own by chaining different skirmishes together.

 

[Lacrymas]

Sisters of Battle come out on the 13th -

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Adepta Sororitas DLC

Just like Battlesector, Warhammer 40,000: Gladius expands with the Sisters of Battle as a new playable faction.

A new faction joins the war for Gladius Prime: the Adepta Sororitas, with eighteen new units, new heroes, unique gameplay mechanics, city buildings, a new questline and a new tech tree.

The Adepta Sororitas, also known as the Sisters of Battle, are the militant arm of the Adeptus Ministorum. Pure of heart and fanatical of devotion, they place the worship of the Emperor above all other concerns.

Don’t miss the opportunity to see the Sisters of Battle in action during Slitherine Next, on December 13th.

See you then!

 

[L'ennui]

Bought the base game for like 2$ at some point, never played. Are there any "must-have" DLCs? Also, how is the multiplayer? I'd like to buy a copy for a friend since it's dirt cheap.

 

[Lacrymas]

Bought the base game for like 2$ at some point, never played. Are there any "must-have" DLCs? Also, how is the multiplayer? I'd like to buy a copy for a friend since it's dirt cheap.

Must-have DLCs - only if you want to play the imperial guard. IG's early game is ridiculously weak without ratlings (Specialist Pack) and chimeras (Assault Pack). You can't do anything of note with only guardsmen in the beginning. Other than that, no. The multiplayer is great and where the game shines the most imo, so definitely buy your friend a copy.

 

[Lacrymas]

So. I finally did it.

Chapter Approved just came as a bonus without me intending to do it. I tried multiple strategies and map settings, but eventually won with the one I originally thought would be completely unviable - an infantry rush on a tiny map. Against the Space Marines, obviously. The gist of it is that I restarted multiple times until I got a research node and food bonus tiles near my starting location, then rushed out as many ratlings and heavy weapon squads as possible. I did build a Manufactorum and tried to get the extra 3 guardsmen from the quest, but I suspect that was a mistake. Even if I had needed these guardsmen, it would've been faster to just train them from the barracks than to research and build a manufactorum, then sentinels, then kill 3 neutrals and eventually scour the map to collect them. The SM found me faster than I had anticipated, so I was forced to start the offense even faster than I was really ready for, but it eventually worked out. The SM had spammed fortresses of redemption in the worst possible locations for me and they and the city just wrecked the 2 chimeras I had, but they did surprisingly low damage to my infantry, so I eventually surrounded the city and destroyed it with the heavy weapon squads before all other infantry died.

With that said, I don't think this is going to work out against anyone other than the spess marines for two reasons. Infantry are really shit at destroying cities, so even if you somehow manage to take down one of their cities, you'll be very behind on resources and troops because Gladius gets extremely turned on by cockblocking you in the resource department and the enemy would've killed the majority of your troops, so good luck recovering from that and eventually taking down 2-3 more cities. It's just not going to happen. I'm going to try to win on impossible against other factions as the IG, but I'll have to figure out a different strategy.

Addendum on Chimeras - they aren't as vital and absolutely mandatory as I had originally described them, but they do provide a use for the early guardsmen you get at the start and the ones you get later on from the quest. They are also a good escape option for damaged infantry squads. It's still a very good idea to have them in most situations when you are using infantry, though.

 

[Lacrymas]

The sisters are out. I'll be waiting for a discount, though, because I still have other factions to play and I'm not particularly keen on giving away 15 jewro atm ;d

 

[Lacrymas]

Welp, I did get it on discount from Fanatical, lol. Even though I probably won't get to them in a while, I'm sure a friend of mine would like to play them the next time we see each other.

 

[GreyViper]

Gave them a try really strong faction dare I say stronger than Space Marines. Then again SM have been joke for a long time. The melta weapon squad seems especially strong. Overall you can use infantry more reliably than having to invest say only one thing armor or infantry. Canoness and Celestine both are more of support heroes. There's also some blurb about Vottan, here's hoping the space dwarfs get also into action.

 

[L'ennui]

So this turns out to be a fun little game, after all. I might end up buying the DLC off of various cheap cd key sites.

 

[Lacrymas]

So this turns out to be a fun little game, after all. I might end up buying the DLC off of various cheap cd key sites.

If you wait for a sale, it's usually cheaper to buy it off legit sites like Fanatical, Gamesplanet, Gamebillet and so on. Or the difference is cents and it's always better to buy stuff from legit sites.

 

[chuft]

Reading old posts. Baneblades ignore ruins and forests so they are much faster than they seem.

Infantry with melta bombs can do a lot of damage against cities. You just need to bring a bunch of them and rotate them out since cooldown is 10.

Heroes with items can also really maul cities. Jokaero Digital Weapon is not unique, a hero with a movement item can run in there and use 5 of them (free action!) to wreck an HQ. SM are particularly vulnerable to being knocked out of the game this way.

Playing as CSM right now in an 8 player FFA (7 AIs, no teams) to try to get the achievement. Having teams seems to block the achievement if you have an ally. I always play huge maps. First attempt I got boxed in by AM and aborted at Turn 70. Current game I just decapitated SM by killing their city while their army was out of position. This created a hilarious huge SM wildlife (neutral) army.

Somebody killed the Eldar offstage. Dreading what I will run into next since my army is not terribly large and I miss the AdMech Kataphron 112 damage shots against cities.

 

[chuft]

Bulgryns got buffed to have 50% damage reduction with their shield upgrade. Problem with AM is they have no infantry healer. Bulgryns are great but they can't hold the line once they get damaged.

The big AM plane Marauder is crappy other than for soaking up overwatch. Just build Thunderbolts.

With all factions I have become a huge fan of using concealment whenever possible. Game doesn't tell you which of your units have been spotted (from firing or being next to enemy or enemy city/resource hex) so you have to keep track in your head and move guys around to get concealment back. Even vehicles are concealed in things like woods that give them no cover bonus.

Note those neutral Webway Gates act as spotters for the wildlife faction so they are more dangerous than they seem. Move next to one even in forest/ruins, and you might find 5 Catachan Devils suddenly swarming you. Always destroy Webways ASAP or else don't move next to them (obviously different situation if you are Eldar).

 

[Lacrymas]

Infantry with melta bombs can do a lot of damage against cities. You just need to bring a bunch of them and rotate them out since cooldown is 10.

There are a few problems with this, depending on gameplay context. What I was trying to do is win on impossible difficulty on a small map with an infantry rush and I beat the AI before I trained a single tempestus scion unit. In this context, the only units who can use melta bombs are guardsmen and the two infantry heroes, commissar and primaris psyker. There is literally 0 reason to train any guardsmen beyond the initial three you get and heroes are generally inefficient to use on small maps (due to the huge opportunity cost inherent to building their building). If you are trying to win on a big map, you generally avoid infantry as a whole because tanks + wyrdvane psykers are your go-to. The AM have this problem where their middle-game infantry, namely tempestus scions and bullgryns, hardly has room to shine or be used at all. The one thing they have going for them is not sharing production time with tanks, but pumping out infantry AND tanks AND wyrdvane psykers at the same time is a huge resource drain that you most likely don't have the infrastructure to support.

 

[chuft]

I was making a general observation, not one specific to AM or your situation.

Personally I don't avoid infantry on big maps because some of them (Obliterators and Kataphron Destroyers for example not to mention Terminators) really kick ass, and unlike vehicles can be rapidly transported by air transports by many factions or at least ground transports. This latter transport feature can be a serious advantage on huge maps both for deploying new units forward from base, redeploying from one dead AI to the next target, or making airmobile assaults where they fly into an area and the infantry jump out to make brutal point blank range attacks with no warning. They also shine on maps with low minerals but high food and cover like my current tropical forest world game.

Even a ground transport can give infantry an effective movement range of 5 instead of 3. And they benefit from cover when inside enemy cities, unlike vehicles, and are practically immune to "one big shot" weapons like lascannons.

 

[Lacrymas]

I was specifically talking about AM infantry, not infantry as a whole, because I thought you were replying to me with the AM observations.

 

[Galdred]

Infantry with melta bombs can do a lot of damage against cities. You just need to bring a bunch of them and rotate them out since cooldown is 10.

There are a few problems with this, depending on gameplay context. What I was trying to do is win on impossible difficulty on a small map with an infantry rush and I beat the AI before I trained a single tempestus scion unit. In this context, the only units who can use melta bombs are guardsmen and the two infantry heroes, commissar and primaris psyker. There is literally 0 reason to train any guardsmen beyond the initial three you get and heroes are generally inefficient to use on small maps (due to the huge opportunity cost inherent to building their building). If you are trying to win on a big map, you generally avoid infantry as a whole because tanks + wyrdvane psykers are your go-to. The AM have this problem where their middle-game infantry, namely tempestus scions and bullgryns, hardly has room to shine or be used at all. The one thing they have going for them is not sharing production time with tanks, but pumping out infantry AND tanks AND wyrdvane psykers at the same time is a huge resource drain that you most likely don't have the infrastructure to support.

That is what I really dislike about the game. The economic part drastically limits your options, and you end up playing the same way every time with a faction, because it is more a matter of optimization than picking a strategy or a counter among your options. The combat is good, but I much preferred the economic/logistics part of their previous game.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd say it really depends on the map and difficulty settings and your enemies. On a small map, you can't realistically expect to be pumping out higher tier units one after the other, which tempestus scions and bulgryns definitely are. If you even manage to get to them on the tech tree. In PvP, it depends on your opponent of course. But yeah, there is an element of optimisation that can/should be achieved, like in any other 4X game, but I'd dare say there are different kinds of optimisations in Gladius, depending on what you want to do. An infantry-heavy build would require different infrastructure than one rushing for vehicles. It also depends on your starting location. Starting near a vault of Vaul drastically reduces early-game research.

 

[chuft]

Note you can heavily tweak the setup parameters for world generation. Infantry, particularly melee, do much better on tropical worlds with lots of food and cover than they do on a desert hellscape with negative food modifiers and little forest/ruins but lots of wire weed. You can change virtually everything including starting resources, unit costs, upkeeps, and research costs. Except for the water it's a great world generator and the games can be very different. Want harder AIs? Reduce wildlife, increase map size and AI difficulty. Or make teams. You can adjust the difficulty of each player individually. Very customizable game.

Some of these additional advanced setup options were just added in the December patch by the way.

 

[Lacrymas]

Gladius is one of the very few 4X games where terrain type and features actually matter. If you want more of a challenge against the AI, just have a team of AIs against you, I'd actually advise against bumping up the difficulty past very hard (unless you have allies). Ultra hard and impossible are simply an exercise in build efficiency, unit composition and more or less match-up knowledge.

 

[chuft]

My last game I had an ally and faced several level 5 (very hard) teams with some level 6 (ultra hard) teamless misanthropes thrown in. It was pretty epic I must say. The "details" stats at the end has a hard to see slider at the bottom which lets you scroll over to see more columns. I killed over 700 enemy units that game!

I did not get the achievement for winning a very hard game. I think having an ally disables it.

Trying ultra hard free for alls now. Might be above my level lol.

 

[Lacrymas]

I did not get the achievement for winning a very hard game. I think having an ally disables it.

The achievements are granted only if you are alone, yes.