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Warhammer Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

lightbane

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Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,572
Oh sure, that's why ranged characters were basically all hip-firing crew served weapons and equipped with powerfields because the only way to stay alive is by killing all your enemies in an alpha strike first. Actually, it's one reason I really liked Only War's system of giving almost every character a generic squadie who had a percentage chance to just take any bullet meant for you.
Ah, Only War, it felt redundant, but you could feel the writers squeezing their brains in order to make up prestige classes for guardsmen and their aides, coming up with some ridiculously OP classes... As well as having "canon" prestige classes hilariously broken (Bone-Head Ogryns dual-wielding Eviscerators for the win!). Shame the game line was dropped.

OW's Comrades is a godo system, but they're pretty much glorified power-fields. What OW did great was to have the party fight superior enemies while having subpar gear and live to tell the tale (or not). Classes with multiple comrades were very good as expected, especially the Priest variants, one of whose special abilities "ensured" Comrades to jump and take the next attack for you.

*Actually Fantasy Flight itself had some good rules for making the players fight huge armies or endless enemies with their own Horde rules. The units would act like one character and move as a unit. They'd deal bonus damage based on how many made up the horde and could combine or disperse into multiple weaker hordes or even individual units. The Hordes had special traits or abilities to account for the kinds of enemies that made them up. Usually you would try to damage them until the horde lost morale and dispersed, they made interesting boss fights as well since "obvious" counters to them like Flamers and explosives did massive bonus damage.

Hordes are cool, but they can't be dodged which means they're deadly to PCs. The Chaos game made them somewhat better by letting PCs "dodge" their attacks in certain circumstances (ie: ducking into cover to avoid a hail of bullets). OW has its own variant of Hordes which was better IMO. It demanded more work to be handled, but it allowed you to dodge enemy attacks.

PCs in WH40k pnp games need houserules for having as much HP as possible.
 
Glory to Ukraine
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Speaking of concept art, here is a new one:

1661861143532.png
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,740
Camp followers make perfect sense planet-side, with locals seeking profit or love from the soldiers, but transporting these hanger-ons between the stars seems like a quite silly waste of resources.

Because we all know the Imperium is excellent at spending resources efficiently.

Given the nature of 40k starships as large enough to have entire cities worth of population on them and decks that can simply be "unaccounted for", it doesn't seem unreasonable for a portion of a regiment's entourage to just follow it on and take up residence.
It's not impossible, but I'd like to see more evidence of it than just being in a book (preceeded by several that made no mention of it, mind you) by an author that has solitary guardsmen massacre dozens of chaos worshippers at a time in CQC or even taking out chaos space marines. It's not that the ship couldn't hold them, but that you'd need to supply them on long journeys through the warp, or they'd start stealing from military supply, etc.

All in all, I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it looks like something Abnett threw in because it was convenient with zero basis in lore, and would need to see evidence to the contrary to accept it as fact.
 

Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
Camp followers make perfect sense planet-side, with locals seeking profit or love from the soldiers, but transporting these hanger-ons between the stars seems like a quite silly waste of resources.

Because we all know the Imperium is excellent at spending resources efficiently.

Given the nature of 40k starships as large enough to have entire cities worth of population on them and decks that can simply be "unaccounted for", it doesn't seem unreasonable for a portion of a regiment's entourage to just follow it on and take up residence.
It's not impossible, but I'd like to see more evidence of it than just being in a book (preceeded by several that made no mention of it, mind you) by an author that has solitary guardsmen massacre dozens of chaos worshippers at a time in CQC or even taking out chaos space marines. It's not that the ship couldn't hold them, but that you'd need to supply them on long journeys through the warp, or they'd start stealing from military supply, etc.

All in all, I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it looks like something Abnett threw in because it was convenient with zero basis in lore, and would need to see evidence to the contrary to accept it as fact.
Eh. 40k spaceships are self-sufficient, since people double as both labour and rations, and the ships have plenty of people.

The scale of 40k ships is actually one of my minor bugbears when running DH games - Giving the party the freedom of space travel requires giving them, essentially, a small city of resources. Typically I prefer to have them be working with a small ship captain who has been told by the Inquisitor daddy to "Assist the acolytes, within reason".
 

Stoned Ape

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https://www.nme.com/features/gaming...ader-is-worthy-of-the-blood-gods-gaze-3296660

In upcoming isometric RPG Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, players are free to explore the miserable world of Warhammer however they see fit. Developer Owlcat Games releases fans from the boots of a dutiful Space Marine by letting them create their own Rogue Trader – a role in the Warhammer universe that’s given a free pass to do whatever they like across the stars, as long as it advances the Empire’s questionable goals.
It’s a brilliant vehicle for opening up a world where most people live their lives merely following orders, but this is still Warhammer – and violence is always just a shot away. In combat, Rogue Trader thrives on repulsion. Battles are turn-based, and each combatant has a limited pool of action points to move and use their abilities or items. Some of this may strike strategy fans as familiar – but not entirely: Owlcat explains that although it wanted to capture XCOM‘s unforgiving percentage-ruled combat, it was important to deliver a more traditional sense of power in line with other RPGs.

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader. Credit: Owlcat Games.
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader. Credit: Owlcat Games.
One way that Rogue Trader pulls this off is with a dynamic dismemberment system – an incredibly on-brand feature for a Warhammer game that turns every death into a disgusting spectacle. In one fight, a stray burst of las rounds dissected a Druchii with messy imperfection, leaving a single bloody leg skating along the steaming ice. It’s undeniably over-the-top and gratuitous – Warhammer‘s middle name – yet the gore sells the brutish strength of each weapon with aplomb. Owlcat points out that a shot from a plasma gun will ruin someone’s day very differently to being hit with a hammer, which is apt to mash Xenos into space jam.


Beyond the difference in weapons, each character’s class lends itself to different styles of play. A Tech-Priest can hit enemies with a range of debuffs or perk their allies up, while a Smuggler is all about fast movement and sneaking in as many potshots as possible. Each class also has its own background – the Smuggler in the demo was a former soldier, which meant they were a running, gunning killing machine that had no difficulty turning the table on a set of Druchii ambushers.

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader. Credit: Owlcat Games.
That being said, it wasn’t a clean fight. Rogue Trader draws inspiration from the older X-COM games: there’s a vast middle ground between simply hitting or missing a shot. A Druchii marksman’s shot on the Smuggler went wide, but a sigh of relief died as the stray bullet caught the party’s Psyker in the shoulder. This mechanic added a lot of life to the shootout – even on the receiving end – and there was a messy, frantic atmosphere to the fight that’s a rare find in a lot of strategy games.


That scrappy atmosphere is enhanced by a motivation system. If characters have been doing well and feel the fight is going in their favour, they will add to the party’s shared motivation bar. If this gets high enough, a party member can use some of it to activate their ultimate ability – for this party’s former soldier, it turned them into a killing machine with seemingly endless action points. On the other hand, there’s a desperation mechanic – the same ability with a host of downsides – that can be used as a last-ditch gamble if the fight’s going poorly. Owlcat explains that this is a way to spice up the usual tail-end of turn-based battles, where it’s more of a clean-up operation than a meaningful fight.


Any Warhammer fan – especially anyone who sank hours into the franchise’s turn-based Daemonhunters game earlier in the year – will find the premise of Rogue Trader deeply alluring, and rightly so. Combat feels grimy and captivating, and although the preview didn’t stray too far beyond demonstrating that, there were some promising signs of life from the game’s role-playing aspect. Aiming to launch in 2023, the latest from Owlcat Games is one that’s worth keeping an eye or three on.

This particular bit sounds very promising:

"Rogue Trader draws inspiration from the older X-COM games: there’s a vast middle ground between simply hitting or missing a shot. A Druchii marksman’s shot on the Smuggler went wide, but a sigh of relief died as the stray bullet caught the party’s Psyker in the shoulder."
 

Tomas

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
This particular bit sounds very promising:

"Rogue Trader draws inspiration from the older X-COM games: there’s a vast middle ground between simply hitting or missing a shot. A Druchii marksman’s shot on the Smuggler went wide, but a sigh of relief died as the stray bullet caught the party’s Psyker in the shoulder."

The article mentions preview and/or demo. I wonder if there is any footage available, would like to check it out.
 

Vermillion

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Jul 15, 2022
Messages
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https://www.nme.com/features/gaming...ader-is-worthy-of-the-blood-gods-gaze-3296660

This particular bit sounds very promising: "Rogue Trader draws inspiration from the older X-COM games: there’s a vast middle ground between simply hitting or missing a shot. A Druchii marksman’s shot on the Smuggler went wide, but a sigh of relief died as the stray bullet caught the party’s Psyker in the shoulder."
Is this the part where I post 40k RPG crit fap material tables? Maybe it's because Owlcat's using a system different from Pathfinder. Maybe they're just more motivated but hearing this makes me want to consooom. Seriously feeling the incline for the gameplay so far, fingers crossed.
 

Vermillion

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Jul 15, 2022
Messages
84
https://roguetrader.owlcat.games/news/en/7

CASSIA ORSELLIO: GAZING INTO THE WARP​

SEPTEMBER 04, 2022

For many millennia, the Imperium has spread the Emperor's light and His will from Holy Terra to the darkest reaches of the galaxy. As fearless explorers, Rogue Traders are often the first to take the plunge into the uncharted depths of darkness. This is why at every Lord Captain's side, you will find a Navigator: a noble mutant who uses their third eye to steer the ship through the horrors of the warp.



The Great Houses of the Navis Nobilite are one of the pillars of the Imperium's might. While the true origin of these noble mutants is shrouded in the mists of time, it was the Navigators' unique gene that helped Humanity unite its scattered colonies all across the galaxy into a single great empire. For the guiding gaze of a Navigator's third eye can see through the veil of the warp, whereas its raging depths can drive an ordinary mortal insane and disfigure their body. This is the gift that allows Navigators to steer Humanity's voidships through the Sea of Souls, with only the light of the Astronomican – the Emperor's own radiance – to guide them along. However, outside the Navigator Chambers, the stare of an open third eye spells death for anyone who dares peer into its depths.



Cassia Orsellio is a young daughter of a Navis Nobilite House that has made the Koronus Expanse her home. Raised in secret on a restricted-access station, the girl knows neither her real parents nor the world outside her gilded cage; all she has known are endless years of study and the duty toward her House that weighs down on her still-fragile shoulders. Cassia's Navigator bloodline elevates her above ordinary mortals, and her formidable powers enable her not only to pierce the warp with her gaze but also to scorch human souls.



After a twist of fate snatches Cassia away from the safety of her refuge, she is faced with the cruelty of the outside world much sooner than her mentors planned. Yet the world itself is no less dismayed by her presence; the girl's innate powers drive away friends and foes alike. Will Cassia break free from the bondage of hopes and ideas not her own, or is she destined to become an obedient cog in the soulless machine that is the Imperium? Who knows? Only the stars can see the future.


photo_2022-09-05_20-15-11.jpg

We have the Navigator's name now. Confirmed waifu-bait. Hopefully not as insufferable as Arueshalae.
 

frajaq

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Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,576
Location
Brazil
perhaps not surprising but the combat seems to be much more XCOM like than anything close to the insanely deadly TRPG experience of Rogue Trader

https://www.ign.com/articles/warhammer-40000-rogue-trader-preview-rpg-combat

In this combat demonstration Gusev uses Idira predominantly as a magic cannon. Other characters, like the Inquisition interrogator, Heinrix, or seneschal, Abelard, are tankier fighters able to buff and provide shields for her if needed. Gusev has Idira use her Psychic Shriek to blast waves of eardrum-bursting sound at a Kabalite Warrior, which successfully erodes away at their health bar. But psyker powers cause The Veil - the barrier between reality and the demon-infested realm of Chaos - to weaken and fracture. If it breaks all sorts of terrible things could happen on the battlefield, Gusev warns. I don’t get to see any of those awful things, but Gusev does tell me that I’ll need to be careful as both allied and enemy psyker abilities will weaken The Veil. That’s another thing to monitor and keep track of as the turns go by.

A more recognisable strategy for XCOM veterans can be found in Jae, one of Rogue Trader’s soldier class characters. She’s able to move and attack twice per turn, a fairly standard skill compared to lethal screams and channelling the god of machines. But combine that with a buff from a more specialised character and she could become an explosive force on the battlefield. Rogue Trader’s tactical depth seems to be hidden in the gaps between characters, and the way their skills can be layered to create strategies far more impressive than each individual companion.

The final part of the puzzle is the Rogue Trader themselves, captain of this whole venture. They have the ability to issue orders, which effectively grants any companion in range an extra turn, free of charge. We all know the desperate pain of not quite killing a powerful enemy in a single turn and having to suffer one more attack, and the Rogue Trader seems set to mitigate those situations. While they will no doubt bring their own skills to the table, it seems like a Rogue Trader’s most important job (in battle, at least) will be unleashing the potential of their companions.

......

The final major system Gusev shows me is Momentum, a stat that builds with each attack and heal. At high Momentum, a character is able to use an ultimate-style ability that could be the devastating finale to a multi-turn strategy. Daring Breach, for instance, is a ‘Heroic Act’ that allows a character to move and attack multiple times in a turn. Essentially, it’s the deluxe version of the soldier’s basic skill. The really interesting thing about Heroic Acts, though, is that they can also be used at low Momentum… for a price. The alternate version of Daring Breach is Desperate Rush, which allows the same skill to be used but the character is then put into a stun lock for two turns. Once again, this forces you to map out a multi-turn strategy: either work out a way to build Momentum and unleash Daring Breach as soon as possible, or use Desperate Rush right now and devise a plan to keep your fighter protected for the next two turns.

All this paints a picture of an RPG battle system that’s as tactically rich as a dedicated strategy game, and there’s still plenty more to discover beyond this (including that enemies can use Momentum, too, and have unique methods of building it). But while Warhammer 40k’s tagline may threaten that there’s “only war”, Rogue Trader is about much more than battle. Combat is, at least to me, the least interesting thing about a Warhammer RPG. What of the worlds we’ll visit? The allies we’ll make? The fine line between puritan and heresy that will no doubt see our own companions tear each other apart? That’s the stuff I’m desperate to see. It’s also, unfortunately, not the easiest thing to show at a busy games convention, hence the Gamescom demo being combat focused. But, if the adventure and narrative side of Rogue Trader has as much promise as its battle system does, then Owlcat’s hands appear to be an incredibly safe place for Games Workshop’s ocean-deep sci-fi universe to be.
 

Vermillion

Educated
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
84
perhaps not surprising but the combat seems to be much more XCOM like than anything close to the insanely deadly TRPG experience of Rogue Trader

https://www.ign.com/articles/warhammer-40000-rogue-trader-preview-rpg-combat

In this combat demonstration Gusev uses Idira predominantly as a magic cannon. Other characters, like the Inquisition interrogator, Heinrix, or seneschal, Abelard, are tankier fighters able to buff and provide shields for her if needed. Gusev has Idira use her Psychic Shriek to blast waves of eardrum-bursting sound at a Kabalite Warrior, which successfully erodes away at their health bar. But psyker powers cause The Veil - the barrier between reality and the demon-infested realm of Chaos - to weaken and fracture. If it breaks all sorts of terrible things could happen on the battlefield, Gusev warns. I don’t get to see any of those awful things, but Gusev does tell me that I’ll need to be careful as both allied and enemy psyker abilities will weaken The Veil. That’s another thing to monitor and keep track of as the turns go by.

A more recognisable strategy for XCOM veterans can be found in Jae, one of Rogue Trader’s soldier class characters. She’s able to move and attack twice per turn, a fairly standard skill compared to lethal screams and channelling the god of machines. But combine that with a buff from a more specialised character and she could become an explosive force on the battlefield. Rogue Trader’s tactical depth seems to be hidden in the gaps between characters, and the way their skills can be layered to create strategies far more impressive than each individual companion.

The final part of the puzzle is the Rogue Trader themselves, captain of this whole venture. They have the ability to issue orders, which effectively grants any companion in range an extra turn, free of charge. We all know the desperate pain of not quite killing a powerful enemy in a single turn and having to suffer one more attack, and the Rogue Trader seems set to mitigate those situations. While they will no doubt bring their own skills to the table, it seems like a Rogue Trader’s most important job (in battle, at least) will be unleashing the potential of their companions.

......

The final major system Gusev shows me is Momentum, a stat that builds with each attack and heal. At high Momentum, a character is able to use an ultimate-style ability that could be the devastating finale to a multi-turn strategy. Daring Breach, for instance, is a ‘Heroic Act’ that allows a character to move and attack multiple times in a turn. Essentially, it’s the deluxe version of the soldier’s basic skill. The really interesting thing about Heroic Acts, though, is that they can also be used at low Momentum… for a price. The alternate version of Daring Breach is Desperate Rush, which allows the same skill to be used but the character is then put into a stun lock for two turns. Once again, this forces you to map out a multi-turn strategy: either work out a way to build Momentum and unleash Daring Breach as soon as possible, or use Desperate Rush right now and devise a plan to keep your fighter protected for the next two turns.

All this paints a picture of an RPG battle system that’s as tactically rich as a dedicated strategy game, and there’s still plenty more to discover beyond this (including that enemies can use Momentum, too, and have unique methods of building it). But while Warhammer 40k’s tagline may threaten that there’s “only war”, Rogue Trader is about much more than battle. Combat is, at least to me, the least interesting thing about a Warhammer RPG. What of the worlds we’ll visit? The allies we’ll make? The fine line between puritan and heresy that will no doubt see our own companions tear each other apart? That’s the stuff I’m desperate to see. It’s also, unfortunately, not the easiest thing to show at a busy games convention, hence the Gamescom demo being combat focused. But, if the adventure and narrative side of Rogue Trader has as much promise as its battle system does, then Owlcat’s hands appear to be an incredibly safe place for Games Workshop’s ocean-deep sci-fi universe to be.
The progression system kind of sounds like Only War/Dark Heresy 2E. Also we have confirmation of Psyker mishaps so that's an incline. The Rogue Trader seems to be able to do a modified version of Only War orders that affect Companions, so that should go a long way to making them more than a glorified Aldori disploomer. I really want to get my hands on the actual game to see how it all plays out in practice, but I feel excited in the moment.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,572
Hopefully the devs still keep the glorious critical damage tables regardless of how the combat is changed, which is reminding me of nu-XCOM.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://wccftech.com/warhammer-40k-rogue-trader-impressions/

Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader Impressions – cRPG Warhammer Goodness​


Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader

If you google Owlcat Games and read the little tag for their site, you will see that they have it as "We create cRPGs". I'd find it hard to disagree with such a statement with the developer having proven their mettle in their first two titles; Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. Earlier this year, Games Workshop announced that Owlcat are working on a brand new IP, and not a small one at that - the next game by the developer would be Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader.

I recently saw even more details about the upcoming CRPG in a presentation that lasted close to one hour, covering the lore, characters and their development, combat, and more. Here are my impressions of Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader based on what Owlcat showed me.


I must be honest; I don't know much about the Warhammer 40K universe. Not beyond what I've learned playing games like Dawn of War, Space Hulk, Battlefleet Gothic, and other titles set within the expanded universe - as well as anything I have read on the font of all knowledge, Wikipedia. For those who don't know, Rogue Traders are free agents of humanity, beholden to no law beyond the boundaries of the Imperium of man, trading, influencing, and paving the way for the Imperium however you please.

How this will impact the story of the game, I don't know. Owlcat didn't tell me. I know that your team will feature characters from many races. As you play through Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader, you can bring in anybody from any race you want. When entering a mission, you can bring up to six characters on your team, allowing for multiple permutations and tactical opportunities.

Each character within your squad will also have multiple options available to them. The game features a career system, where each character will select a career but also have a side career. The multi-class system will increase your tactical opportunities in battle, with a more advanced career made available later. In addition to careers adding abilities, the choice of weapons equipped will also do this. Each character in your squad can end up with 20+ abilities at any time, giving more than enough options to face anything you fight.

Outside of combat, there's only one other aspect the developers told me about that I can think to mention. Due to the setting and who you are - a Rogue Trader - there are limitations on the items you'll find within the game. Unlike most RPGs, Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader will be clear of "vendor trash". Rogue Traders are already wealthy, and they don't deal with rubbish. As such, the item system will be limited. However, there will be many lore-related items, enabling players to progress and expand the story & lore as they see fit.


warhammer-40k-rogue-trader-impressions-03-screenshot-1warhammer-40k-rogue-trader-impressions-03-screenshot-2

Combat was the meat of the Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader presentation. The inevitable comparison, if only because the developer made it, is to XCOM. You could probably liken it to XCOM with traditional cRPG sensibilities, where the percentage is critical, but unexpected results are always possible. For example, a Drukhari marksman took a shot at one of the Rogue Traders squad and missed. Only the shot, with projectiles designed as physical elements, ended up hitting one of the other characters behind the target. The system accounts for more than just percentages; if a character is physically in the way of the stray bullet, they'll get hit.

Elements like this should add a sense of tension to the game, meaning you're never really safe. Other things to further this will be the abilities of certain enemies. One example, the Khymera, is invulnerable once it has taken damage, requiring you to hit it again to remove that invulnerability. To get past such enemies, you need a combination of characters, utilising their movement and action points efficiently, to get them in place and let you take down the two Khymeras. It should still feel challenging and sometimes overwhelming, even if you're tactically astute.

Rounding this off is a motivation system. The better you do in battle; the more motivated your characters will be. Once you've gained enough motivation, you can use a character's heroic ability. The interesting thing about these abilities is that you craft them. As you level, you'll find yourself adding elements to these abilities. In addition to the heroic ability, characters will also have a desperate measure ability if the fight is going badly, giving you that hail-mary moment, but with massive side effects when it's finished.

warhammer-40k-rogue-trader-impressions-04-screenshot-1warhammer-40k-rogue-trader-impressions-04-screenshot-2

If there's anything else worth talking about, the quality presented was second to none for a game of its type. Zooming in highlights the massive detail that Owlcat has put into every asset. There's also a quirky dismemberment system for when something dies, giving a suitably gory and physics-based death befitting of the Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader world. The reality is that all of this is very early days, Owlcat is aiming for a 2023 release, so there's a lot of time to wait and more to come.
 

dsndo

Educated
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
88
Hopefully this will be the first Owlcat game that manages to keep my interest beyond the prologue. I'm still traumitized by the writing in Wrathfinder.
 

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