Game News Warhorse's Kingdom Come: Deliverance Is Now on Kickstarter

[WhiteGuts]

Sandobox is a quite ill chosen word I think. Since the game is going to be story-driven and feature non-randomized quests and dialogues, it can hardly be a "sandbox". I think they just want to convey the idea of freedom.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Sandobox is a quite ill chosen word I think. Since the game is going to be story-driven and feature non-randomized quests and dialogues, it can hardly be a "sandbox". I think they just want to convey the idea of freedom.

So TES games aren't sandboxes then?


And where did you pull that intel from anyway? Oh let me guess

And what is so strange about 30hrs play time in a sandbox btw?
Just google speedruns for different CRPGs and I bet the sandboxes are amongst the shortest ones with Skyrim near the top. It's pretty obvious that when you build a sandbox game the MAIN PLOT can't be the major focus so of course that main plot will be rather short compared to games like Baldurs Gate 2, games that are more linear and don't allow you to take shortcuts at every corner. And since everything beside the main plot is optional of course they won't count it when pulling that 30hrs number out of their anus.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'm also a bit sceptical about this aspect. It does not sound like Chapter 1 is going to be a huge sandbox. More like something that brings the best elements of Mount&Blade, Skyrim and The Witcher together, but not with an Arma sized world. Since this is very early I'm fine with that, but I would hope that they take the sandbox aspect more serious in the coming chapters.

 

[WhiteGuts]

Sandobox is a quite ill chosen word I think. Since the game is going to be story-driven and feature non-randomized quests and dialogues, it can hardly be a "sandbox". I think they just want to convey the idea of freedom.

So TES games aren't sandboxes then?

To me, they are games with lots of freedom but not really sandboxes. Mount&Blade is a sandbox game for example. But that's just my opinion.

Also, the game not being a sandbox is very okay to me.

 

[Burning Bridges]

haven't played any TES games lately but the world in Morrowind feels 100x times bigger than Mount & Blade

Also items, inventory, etc .. pretty limited

crafting, alchemy ..

I think you should give Bethesda credit where it's due. Morrowind was more than ok as a sandbox.

 

[Juggie]

haven't played any TES games lately but the world in Morrowind feels 100x times bigger than Mount & Blade

Also items, inventory, etc .. pretty limited

crafting, alchemy ..

I think you should give Bethesda credit where it's due. Morrowind was more than ok as a sandbox.

All TES games are player centric and story driven. The content is basically static although often randomized or scaled to a degree and is waiting for the player to be discovered. They aren't real sandboxes. Mount and Blade is pretty much a pure sandbox. The "game" (sandboxes are not games, but yea) doesn't have any implicit goals. It's just a set of mechanics with dynamic world that's changing through actions of the AI. You can do whatever you want within the game as long as it's supported by the system. In TES games you can do whatever you want as well, but the games aren't designed around it. They offer a lot of freedom, but they still set some goals for you.

As for this game I'm looking forward to it. It doesn't sound like a gameplay heavy RPG, but even an open world medieval LARP sim could be interesting (thanks to the authenticity of the environments).

 

[Burning Bridges]

I have spend ca 100h in Morrowind and done nothing but trade, hoard and make potions. The story was rubbish.

 

[Lancehead]

In M&B, if a player just sits there doing nothing, the world around him continues to properly function using the same systems and mechanics that the player does. That's not the case in TES games. They do have npc schedules and some random encounters (travelling merchants, fighting factions etc.), but the npcs rarely engage in the same activities as the player does, and the games generally need the player to make something happen.

 

[Juggie]

I have spend ca 100h in Morrowind and done nothing but trade, hoard and make potions. The story was rubbish.

I guess sandbox is defined by freedom for you. For me it means a form of interactive entertainment which provides the player with tools and content and lets him do whatever he might think is interesting and doesn't try to point him at various possibilities considered interesting by the author (at least not much). The focus of sandboxes is on the interaction with the content trough the tools. In TES games you can use the gameplay systems in any way you want, but the game has quest lines. It can be played as sandbox, but it's a not truly designed as one and it's not really a good one either.
I've spend hundreds of hours playing TES 3-5 and most of the time played it as a sandbox-like, but they aren't particularly good at this, because their gameplay mechanics are very flawed and badly designed. The true value of those games are large worlds waiting for the player to explore them.

In M&B, if a player just sits there doing nothing, the world around him continues to properly function using the same systems and mechanics that the player does. That's not the case in TES games. They do have npc schedules and some random encounters (travelling merchants, fighting factions etc.), but the npcs rarely engage in the same activities as the player does, and the games generally need the player to make something happen.

Unfortunately this isn't exactly true, but M&B tries to provide the illusion of a proper non-player centric game. If you pay enough attention to the details of the NPC behavior you'll realize there are way too many cheap tricks involved. But it's far ahead of TES games in this regard.

 

[evdk]

"What is a sandbox RPG?"

 

[Curious_Tongue]

What possessed them to make this Skyrim thingy in the first place?

 

[WhiteGuts]

Multi-headed dicks rpgs.

What possessed them to make this Skyrim thingy in the first place?

Because Skyrim is good at open-world stuffies.

 

[Delterius]

I have spend ca 100h in Morrowind and done nothing but trade, hoard and make potions. The story was rubbish.

If you had made potions out of scores of bread and kwama eggs you would have hoarded the same amount in about 17 minutes.

One weird thing about this thread is that people don't seem to have read the pitch at all. They cite Skyrim as inspiration and then immediately disown it by claiming to go for 'quality' instead of 'quantity'. Hell, its almost like those who hate Skyrim didn't have the 'pleasure' of playing it in the first place. Much less the seven times required for any sort of true criticism.

Which is weird since those who dislike Skyrim on average still spent 200 hours on it.

 

[theSavant]

They are already better off than Dildo Henkels KS. Also they seemed to have rocked the community much more than e.g. Memory of Eldurium which also used the Cry Engine. Some things I don't understand. But maybe the "millionaire investor" who everyone talks about is pulling the strings to get enough press coverage.

 

[theSavant]

Which is weird since those who dislike Skyrim on average still spent 200 hours on it.

This is easily explained. People continue to progress through the game expecting epicness and memorable situations. So they play on and on and on, but the epicness doesn't happen. The hope of "but then it gets better... it must!" keeps them going until they realize it ain't.

See it not as 200 hours of playing, but 200 hours of vegetating through the game.

 

[Delterius]

It happened with me when I actually thought magic would become more interesting over time. When I got the 17th elemental projectile and realized the ultimate spells were mostly impractical (and that all I needed was Conjuration, really) I quit the game. Skyrim was my first TES and it fell short after a while.

Also the guilds were an amazing let down, if I had done their quests at the beginning of the game I'd have realized the game's true colors much sooner than I did.

Same thing with puzzles. 'Oh, they are handholding the retards/people who never played a game in their lives with the first few puzzles, that's fine' [seven dungeon later] 'So the puzzles won't get any better, will they?'

 

[Curious_Tongue]

The hope of "but then it gets better... it must!" keeps them going until they realize it ain't.

This is what got me through Fallout 3.

I was constantly searching for something that reminded me of the originals.

 

[Burning Bridges]

In M&B, if a player just sits there doing nothing, the world around him continues to properly function using the same systems and mechanics that the player does. That's not the case in TES games. They do have npc schedules and some random encounters (travelling merchants, fighting factions etc.), but the npcs rarely engage in the same activities as the player does, and the games generally need the player to make something happen.

That is a good point, but not the definition of a sandbox game.

 

[Burning Bridges]

If you had made potions out of scores of bread and kwama eggs you would have hoarded the same amount in about 17 minutes.

What kind of argument is this? I could also have set my gold to 999,999 in the editor. That would have taken only 17 seconds.

 

[Burning Bridges]

One weird thing about this thread is that people don't seem to have read the pitch at all. They cite Skyrim as inspiration and then immediately disown it by claiming to go for 'quality' instead of 'quantity'. Hell, its almost like those who hate Skyrim didn't have the 'pleasure' of playing it in the first place. Much less the seven times required for any sort of true criticism.

Which is weird since those who dislike Skyrim on average still spent 200 hours on it.

I can only speak for myself, but I have never played Skyrim, and don't think I ever will. I simply KNOW that the interface and the retarded-ness will annoy me.

 

[WhiteGuts]

Play it with thousands of mods.

 

[John_Blazze]

Dear Codex, dafuq happened to you?

Incline in games, decline in members.

Fucking ying yang shit.

 

[Burning Bridges]

 

[SophosTheWise]

By the way, something you'd not want to hear:

From the KS comments:

Regarding controls: We are developing the game with console controller in mind. Actually, we are developing it FOR that controller. But on PC this will be optional, typical mouse+keyboard will be definitely fully supported. Steering wheel probably not...

Edit: After a few concerned comments they replied again:

Controls: Yep, "keyboard+mouse fully supported" means there will be no confusing tooltips showing controller buttons / sticks / pedals / whatever as a hint how to NOT control it. Mouse will be supported also in the inventory and map UI.

 

[evdk]

Dear Codex, dafuq happened to you?

Incline in games, decline in members.

Fucking ying yang shit.

Incline is a zero sum game. It has to come from somewhere - aren't you happy to sacrifice the Codex on the Altar of Incline?