Was Dark Souls 2 the greatest game that From Software ever made?

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Personally I started with King's Field

It is nothing like Demon's Souls. King's Field died.

You have no idea how many things from Souls were introduced in King's Field

There is nothing in Demon's Souls that can be connected to KF beyond the most superficial loose bullshit like "dark" "fantasy" "dungeon" and such. Obviously there's a connection because of the company but the games are nothing a like. Demon's Souls invented a ton of incredible shit that people are now bitching about every day. KF didn't invent anything.

Illusory walls, protostamina system, the need to actually read enemy moves in order to attack in time instead of flailing your weapon like in Daggerfall/Ultime Underworld, proto estus flask system where you could manually feel your flasks (which you first have to find in the world or craft, and you can feel it with different magical liquids, can even fill it with poison in KF4, so Estus system is a stripped down version of that), teleportation between checkpoints (again, Demon's Souls starting level teleportation and Dark Souls's bonfire teleportation feels like a very streamlined and stripped down version of King's Field fast travel), respawning enemies, random enemy drops that can change the way you play, durability system (and katanas, although powerful, are very brittle and need to be repaired frequently, thank god we don't have to wait realtime minutes in order to repair equipment in Souls games, a streamlined system that I actually like, along with upgrading weapons that also needs a material, like in Souls, but also takes place in realtime), player respawn, which lets you to die but the world doesn't reset to the state of the previous save (but it's limited and you must to have a special item in the inventory, another steamlining that I like in Souls), fucking item descriptions that tell more about the world (along with enemy and location description you could get in King's Field 3). Granted, none of it was invented in King's Field first, but it was first made in King's Field by FromSoftware and these games affected the creation of Demon's Souls and still affects them. And yes, I'm not even talking about same imagery about dungeons, same looking enemies, names, tropes and stuff, only focus on mechanics and game design here.

This is a pretty big stretch but I guess I can tell you spent alot of time thinking about it so good job!

 

[Max Damage]

My favorite DS2 OST (and DLC), for sure. Sounds like something from the next game, and is on par with best ones from DS3.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

My favorite DS2 OST (and DLC), for sure. Sounds like something from the next game, and is on par with best ones from DS3.

The base game has imperfections but it is wonderful. The DLCs are thee best content FS has ever made, and when combined with the base game you have an absolute monster that shits in the mouth of every ARPG ever madelp. Whine cryin pants pissin pieces o shit will say its not that great and the our douchbages. Fuck those FAGS.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

So many great god damned songs forgotten because of main stream faggotlords who moved in and saturated our perfect run.



The one is underrated because niggas runnin around too uncomfortable lol. Way it out be

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Nobody ever remembers the graverobbrt, varge, cerah ost becuz they gettin ganked but not me bro, I always remembered it. Amazin theme

 

[Max Damage]

The only optional DLC boss worth remembering is Alonne, maybe blue Smelter Demon too because it's a repeat of a good fight from base game. They fumbled the bag with "co-op" bosses in general.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

It is currently the year 2025 and Dark Souls 2 is still the best game FS ever made and arguably the best ARPG ever made.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Dark Souls 2 enjoyers be like:

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I googled "Souls games ranked" and the results were pretty interesting. DkS2 is often times ranked either first or last, very rarely inbetween. It is the true definition of polarizing.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I googled "Souls games ranked" and the results were pretty interesting. DkS2 is often times ranked either first or last, very rarely inbetween. It is the true definition of polarizing.

It's how you can tell whether someone likes actual RPG stuff in their action RPGs or not.

 

[Max Damage]

I like all three of them, none of them have "actual RPG stuff" beyond leveling up stats, though. DS2 is very obviously least polished release, and SotFS didn't fix bad first impression overall. I still prefer it over the snoozefest that is Elden Ring.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I like all three of them, none of them have "actual RPG stuff" beyond leveling up stats, though.

So uh... what do you think RPG stuff is, exactly?

Spoiler

Hint: If it's not in games like Wizardry 1 or Akalabeth, you're wrong.

 

[JarlFrank]

I never understood the complaints about ADP.
So you have to invest stat points to improve your rolling? And? It's an RPG, that's how it's supposed to be!

And it's not like leveling ADP is absolutely necessary and characters without it suck, because ranged and mage builds have less need for it. Or even shield builds.
Which is cool, because it's an RPG, where build diversity is the whole point.

 

[Jinn]

I never understood the complaints about ADP.
So you have to invest stat points to improve your rolling? And? It's an RPG, that's how it's supposed to be!

And it's not like leveling ADP is absolutely necessary and characters without it suck, because ranged and mage builds have less need for it. Or even shield builds.
Which is cool, because it's an RPG, where build diversity is the whole point.

And this right here encapsulates why Dark Souls II is top-tier in the series, and my personal favorite. Elden Ring follows suit in that regard.

 

[JarlFrank]

"DS2 sux because muh dodge roll sux unless I level it" - t. retard not understanding how RPGs work

 

[Morenatsu.]

I never understood the praise for DS2.
So you have omnidirectional rolling? And? It looks like ass, that's not how it's supposed to be!

 

[JarlFrank]

I still don't know what omnidirectional rolling means (I play with mouse and keyboard) and honestly don't care. It has similar dodge roll mechanics as any other Souls game, but the whole obsession with dodge rolling is misunderstanding the genre.

Whenever there's arguments about DS2, inevitably people will get to the rolls.
Are the rolls better than DS1 and 3? Are they worse? Is it about the roll directions? Is it about ADP? Is it about iframes?
Who gives a shit, rolling is just ONE of MANY mechanics, and many enemy attacks can simply be dodged by WALKING AWAY, simple circlestrafing to get behind them.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I still don't know what omnidirectional rolling means (I play with mouse and keyboard) and honestly don't care. It has similar dodge roll mechanics as any other Souls game, but the whole obsession with dodge rolling is misunderstanding the genre.

Whenever there's arguments about DS2, inevitably people will get to the rolls.
Are the rolls better than DS1 and 3? Are they worse? Is it about the roll directions? Is it about ADP? Is it about iframes?
Who gives a shit, rolling is just ONE of MANY mechanics, and many enemy attacks can simply be dodged by WALKING AWAY, simple circlestrafing to get behind them.

Unlike the other Souls games, DS1 only has 4 way rolling. No one cares except people who think this is a shutdown argument with regard to DS2. i.e. retards.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I didn't know mediocrepoet was a DkS2 fan. This makes me hate him slightly less.

 

[Max Damage]

mediocrepoet games that don't have ruleset/gameplay mechanics which create layer of separation between player input and player character output to sufficient degree aren't RPGs, so Wizardry qualifies, but something like Dark Souls, Killing Floor, or Torchlight games - don't. Action games with upgrade systems aren't necessarily RPGs, to put it another way.

 

[NJClaw]

Galaxy brain: Dungeons&Dragons is not an RPG because it doesn't create a layer of separation between player input and player character output to a sufficient degree during dialogues and social interactions (if the player is mentally disabled, obviously)

 

[Odoryuk]

mediocrepoet games that don't have ruleset/gameplay mechanics which create layer of separation between player input and player character output to sufficient degree aren't RPGs, so Wizardry qualifies, but something like Dark Souls, Killing Floor, or Torchlight games - don't. Action games with upgrade systems aren't necessarily RPGs, to put it another way.

I wouldn't mind dropping "rpg" when mentioning Souls, but how do I distinct them from other action games? Sekiro is a FS game, but not a Souls game, because it lacks customisation (it has upgrade systems, but it's not an RPG system). So, customisable action game? Sounds mouthful and lame. But when adding RPG to the action, it is immediately clear that there will be stats, you will have to upgrade and customise your characters and equipment

 

[Max Damage]

At this point there have been enough Souls and Souls-inspired games to define their own genre of "soulslikes", just like Rogue was distinct package that spawned whole genre of roguelikes. Problem with branding every game that has stat/weapon/perk upgrades as RPG is that nowadays it's easier to name games that DON'T feature those, even new Doom and other FPS games have that. When everything is RPG, nothing is.

 

[JarlFrank]

The type and amount of character upgrades is what makes a game's systems RPG or not.
Dark Souls clearly has RPG-like systems. Several attributes raised by investing XP gained from killing enemies, which directly influence character abilities such as which equipment you can effectively wield, spells you can use, damage you deal out and resist, etc. How is this any less of an RPG system than, say, Wizardry, or Might & Magic, or Elder Scrolls, or D&D itself? Is it less of an RPG because you control your character directly? Preposterous, nobody would claim Daggerfall and Morrowind aren't RPGs because of that. Now you might say "But those have dice roll combat, it's not the same!" but I'd say the attribute system is more important in determining an RPG than whether there's dice rolls or not, else turn based RPGs with deterministic systems (no random rolls) would disqualify too.

 

[Odoryuk]

Preposterous, nobody would claim Daggerfall and Morrowind aren't RPGs because of that

One of the most notable features of Morrowind for new players is the dice roll combat, which feel very weird and oldschool RPG–ish. It is real time, but there's an RPG system beneath that computes, based on various states, if the hit is succesful or not, separate from the physical world of the game. I guess that's what Max Damage means