Star Wars Was KOTOR even worth a play?

[Dr1f7]

ehrm no everyone knows manaan is #1

 

[NecroLord]

ehrm no everyone knows manaan is #1

Another great planet.

 

[WhiteHumanMaleFighter]

KotOR is one of the rare RPGs that feels like it has no pacing issues, filler, or obvious third act content cuts that most RPGs are rife with. It did take a bit of a hit in my eyes just because of how great the TSL companions were, including the recurring characters like T3-M4, HK-47, and even Canderous Ordo, making them pale in comparison in K1 during replays. But if you haven't played TSL and enjoy the storyfag linear RPGs, then K1 is good, I enjoyed it quite a bit on my first playthrough. It's also about as traditional Star Wars as you can get, very removed of today's issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWg2FruaHao

 

[ShiningSoldier]

I liked KOTOR when I was a kid, but tried to replay it as an adult and it felt not that good.
The world is 100% static, nobody reacts to anything. You can steal people's possessions from their rooms, and they wouldn't give a fuck.
The plot is, well, meh to say least. It has only 1 interesting part - the revealing of the nature of the main character. But the directing is awful. I remember how I was beating the shit of Darth Malak somewhere in the middle of the game, he couldn't do anything to me. But suddenly Bastila yells: "No, he's too powerful, run! I'll pin him here!" And the game takes control from me and makes me run away. I was like what? Bitch, I almost annihilated him, and I didn't even power leveled my character!
And I also remember the last location, where there was just wave after wave of boring Siths I had to kill. Just fucking waves. I could barely made it through because I was so bored.
First game had only one interesting character - the evil droid. The second one... well, it didn't have even that.

 

[NecroLord]

I liked KOTOR when I was a kid, but tried to replay it as an adult and it felt not that good.
The world is 100% static, nobody reacts to anything. You can steal people's possessions from their rooms, and they wouldn't give a fuck.
The plot is, well, meh to say least. It has only 1 interesting part - the revealing of the nature of the main character. But the directing is awful. I remember how I was beating the shit of Darth Malak somewhere in the middle of the game, he couldn't do anything to me. But suddenly Bastila yells: "No, he's too powerful, run! I'll pin him here!" And the game takes control from me and makes me run away. I was like what? Bitch, I almost annihilated him, and I didn't even power leveled my character!
And I also remember the last location, where there was just wave after wave of boring Siths I had to kill. Just fucking waves. I could barely made it through because I was so bored.
First game had only one interesting character - the evil droid. The second one... well, it didn't have even that.

Yeah.
I wish the enemies would've used more force powers and different abilities.
Kotor should've been turn based a la Temple of Elemental Evil, as an example, with Initiative rolls before combat starts.
Enemies are really dumb and the endless waves of Sith on the Star Forge is rather tedious and boring to get through. Same with Kotor 2 and Trayus Academy.

Still great games though.

 

[almondblight]

I still don't know if Tanis is intentionally subverting RPG tropes or of the designers just weren't really thinking things through, but it's both awesome and infuriating.

Spoiler

You spend hours saving people's puppies, getting medicine for sick kids, fixing people's relationships, etc. And then the villain just shows up and kills everyone on the entire planet.

 

[ShiningSoldier]

I could never understand the hype about KOTOR2 villains.

• Darth Nihillus: everybody talk how powerful this guy is, how he destroys the entire planets, how he's "a hole in Force". Then you board onto his ship and kill him like any other enemy, in a series of a boring clicks, without any difficulties.
• Darth Sion: the "he's too angry to die" trope looked cool back then, but now, when absolutely everybody in Star Wars can't die because they're "too angry for that", it just looks cheap.
• Kreia just talks too much of a pseudo-phylosophical bullshit to be interesting.

BTW, in the first game I defeated Darth Malak at the end by using the glue grenade at first to immobilize him, and then spamming plasma grenades.

 

[NecroLord]

I still don't know if Tanis is intentionally subverting RPG tropes or of the designers just weren't really thinking things through, but it's both awesome and infuriating.

Spoiler

You spend hours saving people's puppies, getting medicine for sick kids, fixing people's relationships, etc. And then the villain just shows up and kills everyone on the entire planet.

You meant Taris?
Tanis is that hunter on Tattooine that has troubles with his wife.

 

[Bulo]

I could never understand the hype about KOTOR2 villains.

• Darth Nihillus: everybody talk how powerful this guy is, how he destroys the entire planets, how he's "a hole in Force". Then you board onto his ship and kill him like any other enemy, in a series of a boring clicks, without any difficulties.
• Darth Sion: the "he's too angry to die" trope looked cool back then, but now, when absolutely everybody in Star Wars can't die because they're "too angry for that", it just looks cheap.
• Kreia just talks too much of a pseudo-phylosophical bullshit to be interesting.

BTW, in the first game I defeated Darth Malak at the end by using the glue grenade at first to immobilize him, and then spamming plasma grenades.

I wouldn't call Kreia a pseud, her grievances are well founded and consistent with Star Wars' cosmology. She's like an old biblical character, angry at god. You're right about Nihilus. It's very easy to imagine a better version of KotOR2 in which the player spends a lot more time with Nihilus, witnessing his effects on the galaxy rather than just hearing about them. There are glimpses of greatness in the game, like the conversation with the undead Colonel Tobin

 

[Hagashager]

I could never understand the hype about KOTOR2 villains.

• Darth Nihillus: everybody talk how powerful this guy is, how he destroys the entire planets, how he's "a hole in Force". Then you board onto his ship and kill him like any other enemy, in a series of a boring clicks, without any difficulties.
• Darth Sion: the "he's too angry to die" trope looked cool back then, but now, when absolutely everybody in Star Wars can't die because they're "too angry for that", it just looks cheap.
• Kreia just talks too much of a pseudo-phylosophical bullshit to be interesting.

BTW, in the first game I defeated Darth Malak at the end by using the glue grenade at first to immobilize him, and then spamming plasma grenades.

The hype is less the villains themselves and more that those types of villains exist in Star Wars.

Kotor 2 is one of the only pieces of Star Wars media that tries, wholly and completely, to subvert the Star Wars ethos of Lightside Jedi V. Darkside Sith. For many kids growing up, the villains were a breath of fresh air. These guys weren't your Luke Skywalker's Darth Vader, they were something cooler, meaner, darker.

I agree that Nihilius is a paper tiger. I find very little compelling about him.

I think Scion, even with the utter schlock of modern Star Wars, is still decently written as a man utterly consumed by obsession.

Kreia I have mixed opinions on. As Bulo said, she is the archetypal critic of the setting's cosmology. In that regard she is very well written. I particularly like how clearly personal it is to her. That said, she also pontificates on morality a lot, and the moral grandstanding smacks of edge. I find stuff like her beggar on Nar Shaddaa utterly insufferable.

 

[NecroLord]

I could never understand the hype about KOTOR2 villains.

• Darth Nihillus: everybody talk how powerful this guy is, how he destroys the entire planets, how he's "a hole in Force". Then you board onto his ship and kill him like any other enemy, in a series of a boring clicks, without any difficulties.
• Darth Sion: the "he's too angry to die" trope looked cool back then, but now, when absolutely everybody in Star Wars can't die because they're "too angry for that", it just looks cheap.
• Kreia just talks too much of a pseudo-phylosophical bullshit to be interesting.

BTW, in the first game I defeated Darth Malak at the end by using the glue grenade at first to immobilize him, and then spamming plasma grenades.

The hype is less the villains themselves and more that those types of villains exist in Star Wars.

Kotor 2 is one of the only pieces of Star Wars media that tries, wholly and completely, to subvert the Star Wars ethos of Lightside Jedi V. Darkside Sith. For many kids growing up, the villains were a breath of fresh air. These guys weren't your Luke Skywalker's Darth Vader, they were something cooler, meaner, darker.

I agree that Nihilius is a paper tiger. I find very little compelling about him.

I think Scion, even with the utter schlock of modern Star Wars, is still decently written as a man utterly consumed by obsession.

Kreia I have mixed opinions on. As Bulo said, she is the archetypal critic of the setting's cosmology. In that regard she is very well written. I particularly like how clearly personal it is to her. That said, she also pontificates on morality a lot, and the moral grandstanding smacks of edge. I find stuff like her beggar on Nar Shaddaa utterly insufferable.

I would overhaul all of the Sith Lords boss fights.
Give them more abilities and better stats.
Sadly the AI doesn't do much other than attack you or your companions at random.
Last time I fought Nihilus it was quite pathetic. My Jedi Weaponmaster demolished him with Juyo + Master Power Attack and high Strength.

 

[Eirinjas]

I still don't know if Tanis is intentionally subverting RPG tropes or of the designers just weren't really thinking things through, but it's both awesome and infuriating.

Spoiler

You spend hours saving people's puppies, getting medicine for sick kids, fixing people's relationships, etc. And then the villain just shows up and kills everyone on the entire planet.

Watching Taris get glassed was my favorite part of that game. I fucking hated that intro planet.

 

[Sweeper]

Kotor 2 is one of the only pieces of Star Wars media that tries, wholly and completely, to subvert the Star Wars ethos of Lightside Jedi V. Darkside Sith. For many kids growing up, the villains were a breath of fresh air. These guys weren't your Luke Skywalker's Darth Vader, they were something cooler, meaner, darker.

Yeah, which appeals to philosophy 101, dumb-fuck edgy teens. Once you grow up a bit and actually replay KOTOR 2 with its
>it's actually the force which is le evil
gnostic bullshit, you realize Avellone is a hack of the highest grade. I like the dude, but he's a bigger hack than Sawyer.

 

[grimer]

Yeah, which appeals to philosophy 101, dumb-fuck edgy teens. Once you grow up a bit and actually replay KOTOR 2 with its
>it's actually the force which is le evil
gnostic bullshit, you realize Avellone is a hack of the highest grade. I like the dude, but he's a bigger hack than Sawyer.

that's still far more interesting compared to the previous game's cartoon level writing

 

[Sweeper]

that's still far more interesting compared to the previous game's cartoon level writing

I disagree. Fundamentally the plots of both games are the same, the second one just has Kreia (Avellone self-insert) commenting on the first game.
Also you have to be over the age of 18 to post here.

 

[Nas92]

that's still far more interesting compared to the previous game's cartoon level writing

I disagree. Fundamentally the plots of both games are the same, the second one just has Kreia (Avellone self-insert) commenting on the first game.
Also you have to be over the age of 18 to post here.

Kreia is an Avellone self-insert done well, Ulysses in New Vegas is when he goes full retard.

 

[NecroLord]

that's still far more interesting compared to the previous game's cartoon level writing

I disagree. Fundamentally the plots of both games are the same, the second one just has Kreia (Avellone self-insert) commenting on the first game.
Also you have to be over the age of 18 to post here.

Kreia is an Avellone self-insert done well, Ulysses in New Vegas is when he goes full retard.

What was Ulysses all about?
Can't remember.

 

[Sweeper]

Kreia is an Avellone self-insert done well

Is though? Is it?

 

[NecroLord]

Kreia is an Avellone self-insert done well

Is though? Is it?

She definitely is a self insert.
I thought it was already well established that she is?

 

[Sweeper]

She definitely is a self insert.

I was questioning the well done bit.

 

[Butter]

What was Ulysses all about?
Can't remember.

Ulysses is mad at the player because he (supposedly) delivered a package to the Divide, before the events of the game, that caused the warheads to detonate and destroy the town there. It's supposed to be a commentary on players mindlessly following instructions, but it falls flat because the human being playing the game didn't actually cause the devastation of the Divide.

 

[Nas92]

What was Ulysses all about?
Can't remember.

Ulysses is mad at the player because he (supposedly) delivered a package to the Divide, before the events of the game, that caused the warheads to detonate and destroy the town there. It's supposed to be a commentary on players mindlessly following instructions, but it falls flat because the human being playing the game didn't actually cause the devastation of the Divide.

Also the whole nuking everything again was / is Avellone's wet dream for the Fallout franchise, he wanted to have a fresh start for the franchise, at least for the OG West Coast storyline.

Kreia is an Avellone self-insert done well

Is though? Is it?

Compared to Ulysses, yes. At the very least she was a deeper character with her own motivations and her own backstory that you could piece together. Basically, her strength as a character was that she was a companion to the Exile and that alone allowed her more nuance. Ulysses is just a literal mouth breathing retard who keeps talking about the bear and the bull and can't even talk in complete sentences. His backstory was just a bunch of gay bullshit that made no sense. Also it's just painfully obvious Avellone was really fucking proud of Ulysses, like he was his masterpiece and the greatest villain in the history of RPGs with the amount of setup that went into him.
Or maybe when I played Kotor2 I was young and foolish and not wise to MCA's cheap tricks.

 

[almondblight]

You meant Taris?
Tanis is that hunter on Tattooine that has troubles with his wife.

Pandorum was a pretty good movie.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Kotor is mainly for star wars fans. It's not a great game on its own merits but it captures the star wars atmosphere very well. Main story is decent. Some really good characters and side quests. The one that really sticks out in my mind is the Jolee side quest on Manaan where you act as the investigator/defender of Jolee's buddy who's locked up for killing a sith. Extremely well written quest

 

[NecroLord]

Kotor is mainly for star wars fans. It's not a great game on its own merits but it captures the star wars atmosphere very well. Main story is decent. Some really good characters and side quests. The one that really sticks out in my mind is the Jolee side quest on Manaan where you act as the investigator/defender of Jolee's buddy who's locked up for killing a sith. Extremely well written quest

Yeah, it is one of the better quests in the game.