Development Info Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #20: Attributes and Skills

[Brotherman Bill]

I have a better name for it all:

Strength
Perception
Enchantingness
Sagacity
Haste
Usefulness
Luck


I know it's late @Brian_Fargo, but I will accept a position as wasteland lead designer. I could do this in just a couple minutes, imagine what I could do in 8 months.

 

[Brother None]

They're doing a poll on the acronym, CLASSIC being the alternative to SPLICES.

I like CLASSIC, myself, though I will admited herostratus ' SPECHUL has some merit too.

 

[Jaesun]

I liked CLASSIC too. Voted for that.

 

[tuluse]

CLASSIC almost seems too cute, but I voted for it because coordination is a better name for expertise.

 

[Infinitron]

The Power of the Crowd!


The only problem with this is that traditionally Strength is always the first stat in the list.

 

[Primordial Soup Nazi]

Some acronyms from the Wasteland 2 forums: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2890

Charisma
Luck
Awareness
Strength
Speed
Intelligence
Coordination

Kinetics
Intelligence
Charisma
Karma
Awareness
Strength
Speed

Reflexes
Perception
Grace
Charisma
Obfuscation
Dexterity
Endurance
Xenophobia

 

[Moribund]

Xenophobia

Obstinance might be better for the O.

 

[Infinitron]

Retardo might be better for the R.

 

[FeelTheRads]

G is for Gayness.

 

[Excidium]

The only problem with this is that traditionally Strength is always the first stat in the list.

lol what

 

[Brother None]

Charisma? Grace? On RPGCodex?

 

[Excidium]

Probably the underpowered stats nobody uses. An old-school RPG system needs those.

 

[hiver]

Retardedness
Plausability
Gayness
Cohoness
Obesity
Delusionism - Denial(ism)
Empathy (obligatory dump stat)
Xenophobia

 

[St. Toxic]

I'm putting my points in Retardedness and Cohoness. Plausibility seems like a real dump-stat, and I'm sure there's ways of leveling up Obesity and Delusionism.

 

[Roguey]

Given that for melee options, you still had to close the distance between the party (or individual combatant) and the enemy in the original WL, what is the significant difference that renders melee weapons usable in the first, but pointless in WL2?

You have to close the distance, yes, but when it comes to attacking groups there's no need to actually move adjacent to the enemy and attack, then move to the next one once it's dead. You just attack the group and the game decides for you which enemy in the group you attack. There's a lot less movement action going on, when you're moving you're not attacking, one must consider if it's not simply easier to just attack from range rather than dance around.

Roguey is a believer in the magical concept of True Balance, and deeply wishes for RPG systems to be in a constant flux of balancing like MOBA and Starcraft

I believe in an ideal RPG achieving choice agony through all available options being interesting, fun, and distinct. Choosing between a good build and multiple bad, frustrating builds is boring. Likewise having to choose among options that play in a more-or-less identical manner. Right now I doubt I'd ever play Wasteland 2 a second time, if I even finish it at all.

 

[hiver]

I'm putting my points in Retardedness and Cohoness. Plausibility seems like a real dump-stat, and I'm sure there's ways of leveling up Obesity and Delusionism.

Yeah, kinda fits for some ego tripping as well as realistic codex stats.
I would go with Xenophobia, Cohoness, Plausability combo of course

But im especially pleased with gayness (props to Rads for suggestion of course) since this being codex - everyone would be at least a little bit gay
-shame there is no T for trolling...-
-but then everyone would spend points on it-
-so just as well-

 

[tuluse]

I believe in an ideal RPG achieving choice agony through all available options being interesting, fun, and distinct. Choosing between a good build and multiple bad, frustrating builds is boring. Likewise having to choose among options that play in a more-or-less identical manner. Right now I doubt I'd ever play Wasteland 2 a second time, if I even finish it at all.

What about a compromise where the developers make many distinct distinct fun builds to play, but don't take the time to squash all bad builds so there are plenty of them around too?

 

[Roguey]

What about a compromise where the developers make many distinct distinct fun builds to play, but don't take the time to squash all bad builds so there are plenty of them around too?

The idea of wanting bad builds is strange to me, as if others actually get some bizarre sadomasochistic thrill from mastering obtuse systems or grinding through in the most inefficient ways just to say they did. I'd rather everything have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[St. Toxic]

-shame there is no T for trolling...-

Looks like someone's been carrying bricks again. Obviously Trolling isn't a stat, it's a skill.

 

[tuluse]

What about a compromise where the developers make many distinct distinct fun builds to play, but don't take the time to squash all bad builds so there are plenty of them around too?

The idea of wanting bad builds is strange to me, as if others actually get some bizarre sadomasochistic thrill from mastering obtuse systems or grinding through in the most inefficient ways just to say they did. I'd rather everything have strengths and weaknesses.

I don't *want* bad builds, but it's seems a monumental task to make a character system with none in it. I'd rather they focus on adding more interesting builds than making sure every conceivable possibility is accounted for.

 

[Primordial Soup Nazi]

Charisma? Grace? On RPGCodex?

A vaguely rpg-ish primary statistic that starts with "G" eluded me, and I didn't wan't it to be lulzy until the "X." As has been mentioned, CHA would obviously be a dump stat.

 

[hiver]

-shame there is no T for trolling...-

Looks like someone's been carrying bricks again. Obviously Trolling isn't a stat, it's a skill.

cmonn you know it was a good bad/good cop work there we did.
and you know the kid needed it. i did him a favor.
better me over the forums then some pissed off worker stomping his face in one day.

by jove, of course. a skill. what ever was i thinking about...

 

[Temaperacl]

Given that for melee options, you still had to close the distance between the party (or individual combatant) and the enemy in the original WL, what is the significant difference that renders melee weapons usable in the first, but pointless in WL2?

You have to close the distance, yes, but when it comes to attacking groups there's no need to actually move adjacent to the enemy and attack, then move to the next one once it's dead. You just attack the group and the game decides for you which enemy in the group you attack. There's a lot less movement action going on, when you're moving you're not attacking, one must consider if it's not simply easier to just attack from range rather than dance around.

Fair enough - there would be more movement than before. It would depend on the game mechanics for if it renders melee useless or not - can we move and attack in the same turn or is it either one or the other? How widely spaced apart do the enemies tend to be, and how long does an engagement last between individuals? How much cover does there tend to be while we are moving (Time spent moving while under complete cover might prolong the combat, but it wouldn't fundamentally change the balance of the combat)?

If we are spending 50-70%+ of our turns just moving outside of cover, then it very well could render melee combat "useless". If, on the other hand, we are only spending 10%-20% of our overall actions moving, then it may be less effective than gun fighting (assuming the average damage dealt for a given time period is the same), but I don't know if it would be sufficient to call melee useless in that case - it would still be a valid playstyle for someone who prefered that.

In other words, I agree that it will add additional complications and factors inhibiting melee combat, but I haven't been convinced that it will inherently render it useless or not a reasonable playstyle.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Plus, if they keep their promise of ammo being hard to get melee weapons would be even more useful.

 

[Excidium]

Yeah...It's a PA game after all.