Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #34: Gamescom Demo Video, First Dev Diary Released

[Infinitron]

Maps in Project Eternity will probably be like this as well. I don't know why designers think that the BG1 / other open exploration style of maps is bad design or a waste of space, because it isn't.

Bad design? I don't know if that's what they think. Maybe they think this style of map is more natural/realistic/pretty. A valley should actually look like a valley. Etc.

That said:

That's more the nature of demoing and practiced runthroughs than the area. You can see the map snaking off to the east beyond the gas station, there's a side-path towards the farm on the ridge, and at the first raider checkpoint you can veer off east to sneak beyond them, at the second there's a narrow mine-laden path in the south-west to avoid that fight. It goes all over the place, but for demo purposes, we had a specific run in mind.

isn't that much better / more complex than the combat system of 'kiddie nuXCOM' SRR.

You already mentioned the ammo and the initiative. Then there's the more complex AP system. And there's no OP mages. I'm sure somebody else can think of more.

 

[byFall]

Maps in Project Eternity will probably be like this as well. I don't know why designers think that the BG1 / other open exploration style of maps is bad design or a waste of space, because it isn't.

That`s the point, make them just a little bigger in order to give the gamer the impression of the worlds scale. While I understand in case of the FPP or a TPP game there`s an engine, technical limitation but in an isometric? And You do not really need much extra content to fill the gaps in case of a desert.

I don`t want bitch about the game in no way, I`m waiting for Wasteland 2 with anticipation and hope, and I believe they will pull it off.

 

[Roguey]

Corridor maps are likely there to keep the hardware requirements lower (for a future console port? ). I doubt Eternity will exclusively use them.

Agreed. SRR had better animations for pretty much everything as well, but that was a finished game, this is an ~Alpha.

They're feature complete now so this would be the beta phase.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

you got paths leading to events

This felt like the biggest regression from the first demo they showed, with the new non-diagonal square grid in close second. I think it's kind of unlikely that this map is a one-off in its extremely scripted and constricted feel, but I guess it's a possibility. Real shame if it's par for the course, especially because this and the grid seem like things that are probably too fundamental to hope that a few months polishing will rectify them.

 

[Infinitron]

Corridor maps are likely there to keep the hardware requirements lower (for a future console port? ).

you got paths leading to events

This felt like the biggest regression from the first demo they showed, with the new non-diagonal square grid in close second. I think it's kind of unlikely that this map is a one-off in its extremely scripted and constricted feel, but I guess it's a possibility. Real shame if it's par for the course, especially because this and the grid seem like things that are probably too fundamental to hope that a few months polishing will rectify them.

Assumer is assuming.

Brother None, can you please show us the full zoomed-out map of this area, and some other areas as well? So we can get a sense of their layout?

 

[felipepepe]

That's more the nature of demoing and practiced runthroughs than the area. You can see the map snaking off to the east beyond the gas station, there's a side-path towards the farm on the ridge, and at the first raider checkpoint you can veer off east to sneak beyond them, at the second there's a narrow mine-laden path in the south-west to avoid that fight. It goes all over the place, but for demo purposes, we had a specific run in mind.

For debate, a quick mapping I did of the demo area + BN comments:

Now, even without the radio call, what's the chance of anyone missing the dying woman or any of the other areas? Caius Cosades she's not...

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Assumer is assuming.

Sure, but how much of a stretch is it to assume that you show off something that conveys the general feel of the game you're making? I hardly heard Kharn say that this was just a unique map they used to show off in a brief timeframe all the features they had, just that there's more paths with more events which aren't explored.

 

[Infinitron]

Assumer is assuming.

Sure, but how much of a stretch is it to assume that you show off something that conveys the general feel of the game you're making? I hardly heard Kharn say that this was just a unique map they used to show off in a brief timeframe all the features they had, just that there's more paths with presumably more events.

This map is a valley in "enemy territory", so it makes sense that it would have a dungeon-like linear layout, in which you work your way towards the "boss fight" (or whatever) at the center.

A town or hub type area might look different.

EDIT: Actually, in this case it's more likely that what's at the center is the old Ranger HQ, an entirely new area.

 

[Surf Solar]

Infinitrons gonna apologist as usual

 

[felipepepe]

just that there's more paths with more events which aren't explored.

Which is the BAD answer. Would be nice if he said there was tons of stuff that they skipped, especially on the Gas Station, since all you have to do there is crack a safe and hear the audio broadcast. More obvious paths to more shallow events is just lazy.

They could hide the woman, locked on one of those abandoned houses near the gas station, or have a random guy there to chat, just filling the wasteland, or even simply allow you to enter some of the buildings for some loot... but if all you can do there is really just the safe, then they're approaching Shadowrun Returns design school.

 

[Roguey]

Assumer is assuming.

The Ag Center was just as linear.

 

[felipepepe]

This map is a valley in "enemy territory", so it makes sense that it would have a dungeon-like linear layout, in which you work your way towards the "boss fight" (or whatever) at the center.

A town or hub type area might look different.

But this particular location isn't a big empty space. It's "Happy Valley", supposedly a residential area.

 

[Infinitron]

This map is a valley in "enemy territory", so it makes sense that it would have a dungeon-like linear layout, in which you work your way towards the "boss fight" (or whatever) at the center.

A town or hub type area might look different.

But this particular location isn't a big empty space. It's "Happy Valley", supposedly a residential area.

I don't see the contradiction. It's a dungeon-like area with NPC encounters.

Assumer is assuming.

The Ag Center was just as linear.

According to some people ITT it wasn't. The Ag Center is also a dungeon-like area though. ("The Ag Center is in distress, find your way to the heart of the facility to defeat the evil plant boss" or whatever)

I would also assume it's been changed since that demo, however. We have maps:

Designed by MCA!

 

[Roguey]

Looks pretty corridor-like with small maps to me.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

This map is a valley in "enemy territory", so it makes sense that it would have a dungeon-like linear layout, in which you work your way towards the "boss fight" (or whatever) at the center.

A town or hub type area might look different.

I think it was pretty clear from the start that the weight of gameplay in W2 wouldn't be on the hubs, but exploring (potential) enemy territories.

The Ag Center was just as linear.

Hmm.. it felt less constricted and definitely less scripted when I saw it. But maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it was pretty clear from the start

Oh? How do you figure?

 

[Lancehead]

The radio functionality they showed in the video was pretty underwhelming considering Fargo had big things to say about it in the past. In the video, it was a step removed from exclamation mark hovering over npc.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I think it was pretty clear from the start

Oh? How do you figure?

For one because they haven't showed off anything about any hub so far :aiee:.

But seriously, if it ends up as a game where you spend half of the time walking around as Rangers through Wasteland Tarants then I have no clue what they've been up to.

 

[felipepepe]

I don't see the contradiction. It's a dungeon-like area with NPC encounters.

It's supposed to be a residential area, controlled by people that don't like you, but a residential area no less.

Yet all you see is a small farm and a woman dying... and the woman is living on a bed in the middle of nowhere, when 5 meters away there is a gas station surrounded by empty, abandoned houses, with no one around. Shadowrun Returns had a city full of stuff & people, but you couldn't interact with any, unless it was quest-related... here, they simply don't have anything that's not quest related!

 

[Infinitron]

I think it was pretty clear from the start

Oh? How do you figure?

For one because they haven't showed off anything about any hub so far :aiee:.

But seriously, if it ends up as a game where you spend half of the time walking around as Rangers through Wasteland Tarants then I have no clue what they've been up to.

Brother None, tell us about Wasteland's towns and hubs.

It's supposed to be a residential area, controlled by people that don't like you, but a residential area no less.

Yet all you see is a small farm and a woman dying... and the woman is living on a bed in the middle of nowhere, when 5 meters away there is a gas station surrounded by empty, abandoned houses, with no one around. Shadowrun Returns had a city full of stuff & people, but you couldn't interact with any, unless it was quest-related... here, they simply don't have anything that's not quest related!

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It's a sparsely inhabited valley, but still not an irradiated desert (I don't think Arizona in Wasteland actually got nuked like California was in Fallout - it was always a desert). We also don't know if those houses are actually abandoned.

 

[Gondolin]

For debate, a quick mapping I did of the demo area + BN comments:

Now, even without the radio call, what's the chance of anyone missing the dying woman or any of the other areas? Caius Cosades she's not...

That Obvious Sniper Point annoys me. Why would anyone be so dumb as to build a fortified position without bothering to at least guard the high ground right next to it? And why waste time and resources building a wall on that side? Just extend the front and back walls all the way to the cliff wall.

 

[byFall]

I don't see the contradiction. It's a dungeon-like area with NPC encounters.

It's supposed to be a residential area, controlled by people that don't like you, but a residential area no less.

Yet all you see is a small farm and a woman dying... and the woman is living on a bed in the middle of nowhere, when 5 meters away there is a gas station surrounded by empty, abandoned houses, with no one around. Shadowrun Returns had a city full of stuff & people, but you couldn't interact with any, unless it was quest-related... here, they simply don't have anything that's not quest related!

I think felipepepe is afraid that this game is going to be a set in the desert/cabrio/sunshine - dungeon crawler.

Quite frankly, from this presentation seems like it.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Infinitron, I can get your "too early to tell" attitude when it comes to PE, but W2 is pretty much in the polishing phase already. Do you honestly believe that it's a possibility that they actually have a Fallout-type open, hub-based, non-scripted game carefully hiding beneath there with them going "Surprise! Didn't expect that from the demos, now did you?"? I mean, I know you said you could in theory make a Fallout demo that came out like this, but why in God's name would you? The Fallout demo started you out in Junkyard and gave a good idea of the general feel of the game, like any competent demo does.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron, dude, I can get your "too early to tell" attitude when it comes to PE, but W2 is pretty much in the polishing phase already. Do honestly believe that it's a possibility that they actually a Fallout-type open, hub-based, non-scripted game carefully hiding beneath there with them going "Surprise! Didn't expect that from the demos, now did you?"?

First of all, Fallout wasn't "non-scripted". It wasn't some kind of emergent gameplay GTA-type thing.

What it was, was a game where you were a stranger in a world that didn't really care about you, as opposed to a Ranger who is Somebody Who Matters. Hence the different, more "active" feel of Wasteland 2.

I mean, I know you said you could in theory make a Fallout demo that came out like this, but why in God's name would you? The Fallout demo started you out in Junkyard and gave a good idea of the general feel of the game, like any competent demo does.

I don't know, why would you start the games out in a linear rat cave or a linear Temple of Trials?

What do you think of the Ag Center maps I posted?

 

[felipepepe]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It's a sparsely inhabited valley, but still not an irradiated desert (I don't think Arizona in Wasteland actually got nuked like California was in Fallout - it was always a desert). We also don't know if those houses are actually abandoned.

Compare this, a big & important area of W2, with a tiny, optional area of Fallout 2:

Gecko isn't a major city, it's a dying ghoul residential area; and a very small area of the game, with no main plot relevance. Yet you have various houses, a bathroom, farms, cattle, a (poisoned) well and even a bar where you can hear small talk, be called a smooth-skin and play Tragic:The Gathering. There are ghouls everywhere, the people that live here. You can enter their houses, loot their stuff, talk to them, barter with each one and even kill them.

There is flavor here, personality. It's a cohesive area, that actual looks residential, not a bunch of quests at the end of paths, with nothing in between. Combat apart, even being way smaller and with less quests, there is more to do & see here than on what they showed on the demo.