Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #69: PC User Interface Improvements

[Excidium II]

What if the requirement was having a high CON stat? That would also make it easier for said character to benefit from the 2 AP bonus, since their high HP would make it easier for them to survive.

It's basically a trade-off perk so I don't see why it should have any requirement.

 

[getter77]

Seems a fair bit off at a glance, though perhaps character creation now gives you many more points to play with alongside more opportunities to gain as you go? The original W2 system came off as something not-quite Shadowrun Returns...so if that can improve quite a bit in flexibility by Dragonfall/HK, so too should a similar sanity gain be possible for Wasteland.

 

[Infinitron]

You need to be under 25% health though. It's not indefinite, more like for the next turn since I imagine you're going to want to heal yourself before the next round specially since it's a melee dude.

Is <25% health that unsurvivable? Might be an "off-tank" wounded in a previous fight.

 

[Excidium II]

Is <25% health that unsurvivable? Might be an "off-tank" wounded in a previous fight.

Maybe lategame dudes can take that brunt, I've never got that far anyway since they announced the DC. it's too attractive to dump CON a bit too...

 

[Infinitron]

But yeah, setting the requirement high in a melee skill mitigates the "exploit" where you could get wounded in one fight and then use the bonus in ranged combat in subsequent fights with little risk to your character, so I can see why they did it. A guy who invested that much in Bladed won't be that good with guns, unless he's highly specialized and/or in late game etc.

But it could still be Bladed OR Blunt OR Brawling. Though who knows, maybe Blunt and Brawling have their own special perks with a similarly high requirement. Things could look different once we see everything.

 

[Ovplain]

8 days to go!

 

[Black]

I don't like precision shot list, why couldn't they made it more similar to Fallout and put them over a human body or something? Or used that doll for that.

They can't, Bethesda owns VATS
And Excidium II is right, skills/perks/bonuses that work only if you're almost dead are shit in every game. Did anyone ever at all pick Adrenaline Rush in FO2? Or What a Rush in DOS? No, it's shit, horrible, shouldn't exist.

 

[Decado]

No to mention, last time I played the game there was no fucking reason to not be walking around at almost-full health most of the time. Healing falls out of the sky in this game.

Anyway, perks that require some kind of negative status effect or lowered health are almost always useless.

 

[Infinitron]

They're probably not useless, but RPG players tend towards extreme risk mitigation so they don't find out. (Not saying I'm innocent of that)

 

[Irenaeus II]

No to mention, last time I played the game there was no fucking reason to not be walking around at almost-full health most of the time. Healing falls out of the sky in this game.

Maybe this is the real problem.

They're probably not useless, but RPG players tend towards extreme risk mitigation so they don't find out. (Not saying I'm innocent of that)

Yeah, me too. It's just logical, if cowardly. Game should disencourage (#Balance) this kind of behaviour. I suggest offering less healing options.

 

[Excidium II]

I suggest giving reason to take risks that isn't simply making your perks pay off.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

They can't, Bethesda owns VATS
And Excidium II is right, skills/perks/bonuses that work only if you're almost dead are shit in every game. Did anyone ever at all pick Adrenaline Rush in FO2? Or What a Rush in DOS? No, it's shit, horrible, shouldn't exist.

I'm playing a build with all of those types of perks right now in Fallout:New Vegas, though to be fair I'm also running ST traits and perks, which brings adrenaline rush and Die Hard back into NV. Nerd Rage/Die Hard/Adrenaline Rush/Hot Blooded is a really fun combination. I'm also playing a bladed weapons character, sort of a wasteland samurai, but I guess the fact that I needed that many perks to make the build(And thus the traits/perks) viable says something about it as well.

I don't force myself to get the low HP, with the kamikaze perk you lose DT and supermutants and shit do enough damage to melee characters that you're almost always at least >50.(NCR ranger hit squads are crazy fun to fight)

 

[Excidium II]

They're probably not useless, but RPG players tend towards extreme risk mitigation so they don't find out. (Not saying I'm innocent of that)

That's only natural, specially since CRPGs make it extra hard to replace lost characters if not practically impossible. Of course that can be solved with the PoE approach, but there's still the problem in that you fight way too many battles in CRPGs, so you're pushed to play like a pussy to avoid ending up too fucked in one encounter when another pack of mobs awaits at the next room (and the next, and the next...)

It's the designers fault RPG players tend to be cowards. Rarely you see a scenario where the player is encouraged to take risks.

 

[Irenaeus II]

That's only natural, specially since CRPGs make it extra hard to replace lost characters if not practically impossible.

It's the designers fault RPG players tend to be cowards. Rarely you see a scenario where the player is encouraged to take risks.

Agree 100%

 

[Black]

in Fallout:New Vegas,

Wow, such a risk in such a hardcore game.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Wow, such a risk in such a hardcore game.

Risk was never mentioned at all in the conversation you're replying to you snarky little shit.

Even so, playing the game by codex recommendation, especially with a melee character, provides a lot more risk than any previous Fallout game or Wasteland 2. I may be wasting my time with a possibly edgy hipster, but it's a solid example of a game where those types of perks can be fun/viable. You're put in low hp situations all the time, and most of the deadliest enemies can outrun you.

The main problem trying to translate the experience is that in turn based you can simply slink away into cover with that ap, kind of ruining the last stand adrenaline rush fight of flight combat, whereas in real time you'd just get shot to shit 90% of the time. Secondly instant heal items, NV items heal over time, so you can't just spam them to get back up to high hp, leaving you in that low hp berserk state a little longer. That gameplay type doesn't work as well with something as strategic as turn based play though.

 

[Excidium II]

Risk was never mentioned at all in the conversation you're replying to you snarky little shit.

Even so, playing the game by codex recommendation, especially with a melee character, provides a lot more risk than any previous Fallout game or Wasteland 2. I may be wasting my time with a possibly edgy hipster, but it's a solid example of a game where those types of perks can be fun/viable. You're put in low hp situations all the time, and most of the deadliest enemies can outrun you.

The main problem trying to translate the experience is that in turn based you can simply slink away into cover with that ap, kind of ruining the last stand adrenaline rush fight of flight combat, whereas in real time you'd just get shot to shit 90% of the time. Secondly instant heal items, NV items heal over time, so you can't just spam them to get back up to high hp, leaving you in that low hp berserk state a little longer. That gameplay type doesn't work as well with something as strategic as turn based play though.

It works if you know what you're doing when designing the thing.

 

[Junmarko]

Have they made pistols a viable option this time around? Last time I played through, early this year, they didn't seem that great - nor were there many types.

 

[getter77]

The only rpg of any sort that I've seen revel in low health to an unusual degree is, oddly enough, the Paper Mario series---virtually every game in the series goes all in on some sort of "Danger Mario" aspect where you ride the ragged edge of defeat in exchange for ludicrous power should you be clever and dexterous enough to find ways to mitigate and avoid even the slightest of damage.

Now, in this case, if they had some other perks that had an interplay with you gaining resistance and damage shaving in increasing amounts once you got under a certain ascending threshold...things could happen with that. Main thing is, if your system can't allow for you to jump into a gimmick build rather straight away, paying whatever risky bargain, and descend deeper into the rabbit hole with it from there onwards as opposed to having to sink dozens of hours into it to get proper started---then you've got a needless problem brewing.

 

[DosBuster]

Regarding the perk requirement, let's not forget you max out skills fairly quickly in the game. I was dumping points into whatever halfway through California.

The UI seems to be better than WL2's UI, hopefully they've fixed the issue where you had to wait for your party to run across the entire map to the exit instead of a much faster solution.

 

[Sensuki]

Excidium II is right, skills/perks/bonuses that work only if you're almost dead are shit in every game with permadeath.

FTFY

In DotA 2 Huskar's bonus for % of health lost or whatever is really good/fun but that game has respawning (as well as many ways to be saved from dying at low health).

 

[ROARRR]

I hate the highlighting of chars in W2! It is just ugly and useless. Showing a chars turn could be done much better like the circle beneath the cahr could has a different color or it could pulsing.
And the animations are too fast. I love animation but not if I cant really see them in detail! For example a sniper shots impact is felt with the animation, but it looses any meaning if I cant fucking see the super fast animation. It is not satisfying. Still gona play the game!

 

[ArchAngel]

The only rpg of any sort that I've seen revel in low health to an unusual degree is, oddly enough, the Paper Mario series---virtually every game in the series goes all in on some sort of "Danger Mario" aspect where you ride the ragged edge of defeat in exchange for ludicrous power should you be clever and dexterous enough to find ways to mitigate and avoid even the slightest of damage.

Now, in this case, if they had some other perks that had an interplay with you gaining resistance and damage shaving in increasing amounts once you got under a certain ascending threshold...things could happen with that. Main thing is, if your system can't allow for you to jump into a gimmick build rather straight away, paying whatever risky bargain, and descend deeper into the rabbit hole with it from there onwards as opposed to having to sink dozens of hours into it to get proper started---then you've got a needless problem brewing.

Path of Exile has lots of low health mechanics and builds.

 

[cvv]

Moderately looking forward to this.

Tho after the butthurt last year imma get myself a pen and paper and jot down carefully every single "60% succeed" I critically fail. Coz in vanilla it was at least half the rolls.

"3 % to jam chance" weapons jamming every second shot were hilarious too.

 

[ROARRR]

They should make some research if weapon jamming happens really that often in real life.