Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Brother None]

Hadn't even noticed the attribute system yet. I can get why it pisses you off. It really looks like somebody went over the way SPECIAL worked in Fallout 2 and thought, how can I tweak this ever so slightly to make it more balanced (useless Endurance merged with Strength, overpowered Intelligence/Agility supplemented with Expertise, First Aid made useful, etc.). I don't think SPECIAL is as inherently shit as you do, but it is a bit disappointing that they played it so safe. I guess that's what their backers payed for though.

It's based on Wasteland 1's system, which in turn was based on MSPE. Both are attribute-and-derived-skill systems.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I don't think SPECIAL is as inherently shit as you do

Then you're wrong

Maybe, but I still think SPECIAL is one of the better crpg systems around. The fact that this doesn't say much is why I think them playing on the safe side is a bit disappointing. We'll never get to the ideal GURPS-like crpg if nobody's trying, now will we? But again, they're delivering what their backers are paying for.

It's based on Wasteland 1's system, which in turn was based on MSPE. Both are attribute-and-derived-skill systems.

Sure, and SPECIAL was based on Wasteland's system with some GURPS-ey flavorings (traits, perks, etc.), right? Or is there some fundamental difference I'm missing (I just remember Wasteland having some kind of phase based combat, but W2 went the Fallout route with that too).

 

[Grunker]

Maybe, but I still think SPECIAL is one of the better crpg systems around.

Then you're wr... ah well, you ge the point.

We'll never get to the ideal GURPS-like crpg if nobody's trying, now will we?

SPECIAL wasn't trying very hard, that's for sure. Also, while I definetely think a GURPS-like RPG would be awesome as hell, I hardly think it's an ideal or "one system to rule them all." And that's coming from a GURPS fanboy.

But again, they're delivering what their backers are paying for.

I agree, and I have no problems with them using a poor system. I never expected them to do anything else. And compared to most modern systems, it will probably be glorious, so eh, who cares.

 

[Brother None]

Sure, and SPECIAL was based on Wasteland's system with some GURPS-ey flavorings (traits, perks, etc.), right? Or is there some fundamental difference I'm missing (I just remember Wasteland having some kind of phase based combat, but W2 went the Fallout route with that too).

The ties are there, but you're putting it in the wrong order. You say WL2 removed/merged endurance but Wasteland never had an Endurance stat, just MAXCON ("hit points"). If you want to look at the basis this system is based on, start with WL1 MSPE, not SPECIAL.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Sure, and SPECIAL was based on Wasteland's system with some GURPS-ey flavorings (traits, perks, etc.), right? Or is there some fundamental difference I'm missing (I just remember Wasteland having some kind of phase based combat, but W2 went the Fallout route with that too).

The ties are there, but you're putting it in the wrong order. You say WL2 removed/merged endurance but Wasteland never had an Endurance stat, just MAXCON ("hit points"). If you want to look at the basis this system is based on, start with WL1 MSPE, not SPECIAL.

Ah, right. The attribute/skill list still looks a bit more like SPECIAL to me than the original one (e.g. split doctor, Perception), though it's probably somewhere in the middle. Funny thing is that the Wasteland 1 skills actually look more GURPS-ey than Fallout's (Cryptology!).

 

[SwiftCrack]

"The answer lies somewhere in the middle."

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I just said that the new stat system looks like it's somewhere in the middle between SPECIAL and the original Wasteland's. Makes the point whether it's derived from the original or SPECIAL kind of moot, that's all.

 

[St. Toxic]

It's like Dune 2

They made a second Dune? Man that was an awesome adventure game.

Yeah I'm 97.1% sure St Toxic has just been trolling all o' y'all for a full page now.

What's a trolling and how do you play it?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Arguably the only really polished games on the Codex top ten are the IE-games.

Self-guided darts and throwing knifes, self-guided arrows, broken implementation of many spells - especially Mirror Images and general clunkiness of combat. In the release version of BG1 it was possible to interrupt enemy spell casting by pressing pause .

Not to mention absolutely retarded shit like 18m sight range, 1 minute rounds with 10x "time compression" and fucking stealth working as invisibility with a skill check for staying invisible.

IE game systems are absolute shit.

 

[St. Toxic]

RTWP diablo-lites.

 

[Grunker]

Not to mention absolutely retarded shit like 18m sight range, 1 minute rounds with 10x "time compression" and fucking stealth working as invisibility with a skill check for staying invisible.

I don't think polish means what you think it means.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I don't think polish means what you think it means.

I added it later to dispel any illusions on alleged superiority of mechanics of IE games. Half-assed implementation of stealth still could count as lack of polish, though.

 

[Infinitron]

Hey, another Fallout vs Baldur's Gate argument! It's been so long!

@Brother None We need a real update, fast

EDIT:

OK, not an update, but we have this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/15/brian-fargo-on-inxiles-darkest-publisher-driven-days/

Brian Fargo On InXile’s Darkest, Publisher-Driven Days

 

[St. Toxic]

Honestly though, Dota 2 has nothing on LoL. Worldmap ui placement alone makes the game nigh unplayable. Dota is just a high-budget HoN-clone, and the graphics are still worse.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Hey, another Fallout vs Baldur's Gate argument! It's been so long!

@Brother None We need a real update, fast

EDIT:

OK, not an update, but we have this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/15/brian-fargo-on-inxiles-darkest-publisher-driven-days/

Brian Fargo On InXile’s Darkest, Publisher-Driven Days

Nice Read

 

[himmy]

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Only 9? Weak. WEAK

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Looks like Fargo is in JEW mode, releasing videos and stuff to popamole media before backers.

 

[Blaine]

I don't think polish means what you think it means.

You're not doing yourself any favors by latching onto an obviously separate "by the way" paragraph in order to find a vector for hurling insults, while ignoring perfectly valid and on-point examples.

That said, I'm not entirely sure I agree with him... there were some rough edges in the IE games, especially BG and particularly with regard to the combat system(s) in each, but taken as a whole they felt fairly polished to me.

 

[Grunker]

I don't think polish means what you think it means.

a vector for hurling insults

What insults?

Also, stop acting like my dad, you crazy person.

 

[Blaine]

What insults?

Variants of "you don't know what you're talking about" when unwarranted.

 

[Grunker]

What insults?

Variants of "you don't know what you're talking about" when unwarranted.

How the fuck is disagreeing that mechanical design is the same thing as polish unwarranted?

Get that stick out of your wazoo.

Also, isn't it like 4AM in the Kwa?

 

[Blaine]

How the fuck is disagreeing that mechanical design is the same thing as polish unwarranted?

You ignored his first paragraph, which indeed outlined several non-mechanical examples of why he considered the IE games to be unpolished—then you latched onto his second "by the way" paragraph, which seemingly everyone but you understood to be addenda rather than further examples of non-polish. Which means that, really, you're the one who came out looking like a jackass in that exchange.

Those first two sentences didn't stop existing because you ignored them. You remind me of a cat who thinks no one can see him when his tail's still sticking out from under the couch. Obligatory cat .gif:

Spoiler

But that cat isn't even under a bed!

 

[Infinitron]

Wasteland 2 thread is the new Project Eternity thread

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Wasteland 2 thread is the new Project Eternity thread

baby steps...