Wasteland Wasteland 2 Thread - Director's Cut

[Lhynn]

I am pleasantly surprised

Told you.

 

[Sykar]

Finally my queue reached this game. Never played the original release, just the DC at Supreme Jerk.

I was veeeery skeptical as I usually am with modern games, but I am pleasantly surprised, after 25h in including a few restarts. The game is a bit easy, but I love the pacing and flow, the skill system is robust and combat is fun enough. Writing ranges from very good to tolerable, although the constant references to WL1 feel sometimes a bit forced and pointless. How many different times do I need to re-read the Cochise story from different NPCs?

I find the combination of AP and CI a bit strange. The game already has APs to represent characters' ability to make actions, putting CI on top feels wrong (and a bit game-breaking, a party with starting CI 13-15 is OP).

The problem is how many more turns you can get. If you have something like 14+ CI you can act roughly 1.5 times compared to the average CI of around 10. At around 18 it becomes utterly absurd where characters can act 2 times before others with average CI can act once.
This is almost as bad as the old initiative rules in Shadowrun 2nd ED though there you could get it even worse.
Ultimately this is a problem of scaling. If they would have toned down the CI formula or capped it at like let us say 14 CI being the maximum reachable it would have been ok as well.

 

[DavidBVal]

Ultimately this is a problem of scaling. If they would have toned down the CI formula or capped it at like let us say 14 CI it would have been ok as well.

I don't think it is a scaling problem, but a concept one. If you want to design a system based on turn frequency (CI) then turns must be equal for all characters, but faster characters will get more turns. If you have an AP-based system then you have a faster character by giving them more APs. How do you represent here a character that is "faster" than another? gets awfully complicated to translate into game stats.

But since combat is fun and story is engaging, it's all good for me.

 

[Zombra]

I don't think it is a scaling problem, but a concept one. If you want to design a system based on turn frequency (CI) then turns must be equal for all characters, but faster characters will get more turns. If you have an AP-based system then you have a faster character by giving them more APs. How do you represent here a character that is "faster" than another? gets awfully complicated to translate into game stats.

I think this dual system is great and makes perfect conceptual sense. Just like "smarter" can mean "intelligence" or "wisdom", "faster" can mean more actions all at once (like a gunslinger who rapid fires), or someone who can respond easier to new developments. A guy with low CI but high AP is the gunslinger; he takes time to make up his mind but explodes in a flurry of action. Low AP but high CI is more fluid and responsive on a changing battlefield, with quick actions after every enemy move but less able to focus a burst of attacks. The only issue is balance - high CI and high AP together are simply overpowered.

 

[Sykar]

I don't think it is a scaling problem, but a concept one. If you want to design a system based on turn frequency (CI) then turns must be equal for all characters, but faster characters will get more turns. If you have an AP-based system then you have a faster character by giving them more APs. How do you represent here a character that is "faster" than another? gets awfully complicated to translate into game stats.

I think this dual system is great and makes perfect conceptual sense. Just like "smarter" can mean "intelligence" or "wisdom", "faster" can mean more actions all at once (like a gunslinger who rapid fires), or someone who can respond easier to new developments. A guy with low CI but high AP is the gunslinger; he takes time to make up his mind but explodes in a flurry of action. Low AP but high CI is more fluid and responsive on a changing battlefield, with quick actions after every enemy move but less able to focus a burst of attacks. The only issue is balance - high CI and high AP together are simply overpowered.

Yeah I have a Sniper now with 12 AP and 15 CI at level 16. Suffice to say she is a combat machine who has by far done the most damage and most kills just started with TV in Arizona. This is the first time I optimized a character fully for combat and the difference is striking to my usual "RP" characters.
So I agree on that point.

 

[Jimmious]

The game is a bit easy,

Take heed there is a serious difficulty spike after about the half of the game

 

[DavidBVal]

The game is a bit easy,

Take heed there is a serious difficulty spike after about the half of the game

I just completed it. I have to insist, this game's lack of difficulty kind of spoiled the fun for me in the second half of the game. It was great to survive in early levels, to worry about ammo, etc. At some point you have a 7-party with a couple good snipers that start the battle by killing a few enemies. Normally battles are very one-sided, and when they're not all you need is some explosives or hacking robots. I even let my two pet robots die because that Vax guy was making it not easy, but trivial.

Still, good game. Combat is for the most part, satisfying. Content quality is a bit... Variable, but some parts are brilliant and overall the game kept me interested in discovering locations and resolving subplots. Good character system (for the most part). Recommended.

 

[Fenix]

How did you solve Titan Canyon?

 

[Cyberarmy]

How did you solve Titan Canyon?

 

[Fenix]

Well...

 

[DavidBVal]

How did you solve Titan Canyon?

I initially went through being nice to monks, but after Damonta I decided to return and find where was the DBM hideout and side with them. I infiltrated the silo but when found out the nuke's secret I decided to kill the monks and let the DBM keep the canyon, but I disabled the nuke in silo 7.

EDIT: removed spoiler.

 

[Fenix]

I mean, I stop at the point, when I already went past Canyon, was nice too and all, saved in monks camp(?).
I just tried to calculate maxxximum munchkin way to complete it - with maximum loot and exp and content, and stuck.
I remember there was some weapon inside, so I want this, that and that too.
And to kill everything if possible.

So can you tell in details?

 

[DavidBVal]

I mean, I stop at the point, when I already went past Canyon, was nice too and all, saved in monks camp(?).
I just tried to calculate maxxximum munchkin way to complete it - with maximum loot and exp and content, and stuck.
I remember there was some weapon inside, so I want this, that and that too.
And to kill everything if possible.

So can you tell in details?

I can't really tell you because I jumped blind into this game without looking at any wiki or walkthrough. The only very good weapon I remember from canyon region is

Spoiler

obtaining some depleted uranium. Mercaptain at the Ranger Citadel gave me an uber energy weapon for it.

But seriously, I wouldn't worry too much about munchikism and just play as it feels more fun for you roleplay-wise. I played at Supreme Jerk and didn't grind, and ended up at level 42-45, with all skills maxed and skill points that I didn't know what to use for, and gear is much better at LA anyways. Except maybe that energy weapon. So I am glad I didn't waste too much time checking wikis for extra skill books, etc.

 

[Fenix]

I played it like a puzzle, it was a gual in itself, was just interesting to figure this out.
SJ too, one character doing all combat with pure melee, second handle most of the skillchecks.

 

[Jason Liang]

Just started this, made my first character. Fiddled around with the system and ended with a fugly (1 CHA) imbecile (1 INT) gimp (1 STR, 1 AGI) with 9 AP and 16 CI. The character concept was a loner sniper Assassin, but still feels bad man... but those bonuses for 10, best value!

 

[DavidBVal]

Just started this, made my first character. Fiddled around with the system and ended with a fugly (1 CHA) imbecile (1 INT) gimp (1 STR, 1 DEX) with 9 AP and 16 CI. The character concept was a loner sniper Assassin, but still feels bad man... but those bonuses for 10, best value!

You'll likely reroll to get INT 2 and an extra skill point/level. Otherwise your character will only be able to max 1 skill, and that at level 40.

I had to reroll twice, my third party was the one that stuck. Still, as I didn't know what companions I'd find I made some bad skill choices but nothing too serious.

 

[Jason Liang]

idk, game's giving me 2 skill points per level at 1 INT, 3 skill points is 4 INT and 5 skill points is 10 INT. While 3 is 50% better than 2, that's a lot of stat to dump...

Just looking back a few pages, it seems like the typical party is 1 CHA talker/ leader, 1 INT smart guy, and 2 Hanzies.

 

[DavidBVal]

idk, game's giving me 2 skill points per level at 1 INT, 3 skill points is 4 INT and 5 skill points is 10 INT. While 3 is 50% better than 2, that's a lot of stat to dump...

Just looking back a few pages, it seems like the typical party is 1 CHA talker/ leader, 1 INT smart guy, and 2 Hanzies.

You are right, you get +1SP at 4, 8 and 10. My mistake. But I think you gain +1 extra AP at 2 then? I seem to remember some gain at INT 2.

 

[Lahey]

Sum total of str/spd/int is divisible by 4 for best results. Int 4 on all rangers is good enough to cover 1 combat skill and 3 noncombat skills, which combined with foreknowledge of recruits and proper planning will cover everything.

 

[Jason Liang]

idk, game's giving me 2 skill points per level at 1 INT, 3 skill points is 4 INT and 5 skill points is 10 INT. While 3 is 50% better than 2, that's a lot of stat to dump...

Just looking back a few pages, it seems like the typical party is 1 CHA talker/ leader, 1 INT smart guy, and 2 Hanzies.

You are right, you get +1SP at 4, 8 and 10. My mistake. But I think you gain +1 extra AP at 2 then? I seem to remember some gain at INT 2.

Nope, not on that character since I have Awareness maxed and there's some formula.

I double checked too. 10 Awareness, 10 Coordination, 4 Speed, 1 STR, 1 CHA, 1 INT, 1 LUCK. -> 9 AP, 17 CI. I guess I could dump Speed instead?

I guess I'll do some legwork and come up with a theme party of some sort. Characters from David Simon tv shows? Or is that already The Walking Dead?

Marlo
Herc
Omar
Melvin (the pimp that Clark Peters plays in The Deuce)

Or hell just the Clarke Peters party...

Lester (The Wire)
Albert (Treme)
Melvin (The Deuce)
Nelson Mandela

Hm... probably too charismatic.

 

[DavidBVal]

idk, game's giving me 2 skill points per level at 1 INT, 3 skill points is 4 INT and 5 skill points is 10 INT. While 3 is 50% better than 2, that's a lot of stat to dump...

Just looking back a few pages, it seems like the typical party is 1 CHA talker/ leader, 1 INT smart guy, and 2 Hanzies.

You are right, you get +1SP at 4, 8 and 10. My mistake. But I think you gain +1 extra AP at 2 then? I seem to remember some gain at INT 2.

Nope, not on that character since I have Awareness maxed and there's some formula.

I double checked too. 10 Awareness, 10 Coordination, 4 Speed, 1 STR, 1 CHA, 1 INT, 1 LUCK. -> 9 AP, 17 CI. I guess I could dump Speed instead?

I guess I'll do some legwork and come up with a theme party of some sort. Characters from David Simon tv shows? Or is that already The Walking Dead?

Marlo
Herc
Omar
Melvin (the pimp that Clark Peters plays in The Deuce)

Or hell just the Clarke Peters party...

Lester (The Wire)
Albert (Treme)
Melvin (The Deuce)
Nelson Mandela

Hm... probably too charismatic.

Well, if you want a little metagaming, certain skills can be covered by the 3 party members that you'll get.

Light spoilers regarding this.

Spoiler

-You get a NPC very early that later on leaves the party at mid level. Until then, she will cover Brute Force, Hard Ass, Outdoorsman and Weaponsmithing. You can rely on her for a third of the game, but you need a plan B for those skills later on.
-Depending on the path you choose you get another character that can be either a scientist (Computer Science, Surgeon) or an indian sniper (perception, outdoor, animal wishper)
-There's also another early character with high toaster repair skill. But toasters are not as good, really.
-The final "very early" char you can recruit is good at demolitions and has some mechanic repair.

I think there is no early character that can give you a decent Lockpicking, Safecracking, field medic, Smart Ass and Kiss Ass skills. Those are sound investments on your core party. Later on there's some, but I personally stuck to my early-recruited NPCs.

 

[Fenix]

My guys.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[luj1]

the DC version of the game is not bad at all. Perhaps not as as Underrail or Grimoire but much better than entry-level hipster vomit such as PoE, Tyranny and Numagaya.

 

[hilfazer]

Many people say enegry weapons suck in this game. This is true when it comes to dealing damage. They are useless against non-conductive enemies and just all right vs conductive instead of the best.

However, i've seen a number of posts of people who used EWs for aimed attacks and everyone liked them. This is also my own experience. I dare to say say EWs are king of aimed shots.

And boy, are those aimed shots good. Probably less so on lower difficulty levels but on higher they are pretty useful.
Honey badgers? Aimed shot at legs and they are snails. Aimed shot at torso and they are paper.
Aimed shot: arms lowers CTH by something like 35%, second tier by 50%. Combined with cover, evasion, turtle and maybe taunt it is really good. I was getting second tier quite easily already at the beginning of the game. Maybe it was just luck.
Good thing about aimed attacks is they last for whole battle, not sure if all of them but many do. Debuffing Jackhammer made fighting her on SJ a lot easier.

Scoring hits with aimed shots will not be easy due to low CTH but it does not mean you should not try! I was trying attacks with chance to hit around 35% and was scoring hits more often than expected. It's not like you have a choice vs non-condictive enemies anyway unless you develop 2 weapon skills.
Aimed shot:head is hardest to hit but it is mostly for damage so EWs won't need it too often.

Advantage of EWs is their good base accuracy without penalties at any range. It means +max range = +optimal range so go ahead and mount on of those +7 max range scopes.

Some weapons to keep eye on:
laser pistol - shoots for 3 AP; it's better than unique variant because of extra range
laser carbine - aimed shots + burst; no penalty while bursting as it's burst only weapon
plasma beamer - 3 hits for 4 AP make it an insane aimed shot machine; unfortunately for me i couldn't find/buy it anywhere, it shoud be in some shop in CA
ion beamer - 2 hits for 4 AP, 20m range but clip size sucks; it also has good damage per AP ratio as far as EWs go
neutron projector / death ray - if you need range badly

Some enemies are immune to some aimed shots but IIRC they are all robots.
I loved using aimed:arms on synths with nade launchers.
Ammo conservation perk is good, other EW perks are crap.

It's not like EW are best in every situation, i.e. fast ARs will outperform them if you only need tier 1 debuff and fast blades will outperform if you don't need to move much, but generally they rule.

By aimed attacks i mean debuffs. Extra damage from Aimed:head will work better with other weapons like SRs. Aimed:head seems to increase crit chance too.

 

[Fenix]

Melee is a king.