Game News Wasteland 3 Fig Update #3: Base Funding Goal Reached, First Stretch Goals

[Jarpie]

MRY I didn't read the excerpts yet, but I wouldn't trust any people outside of codex to tell difference between a dogshit and a diamond.

Most people will praise any writing, especially if it's verbose because they think that lots of words = must be good writing.

Humor and comedy are usually very hard to write, and it greatly reliant that it fits the tone, setting and style of the piece. Usually I'm not big fan of zany or silly stuff so based on the comments in here, I doubt I like the excerpt but I'll read it later.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Which is why it's pretty unfair to pick isolated bits of Gavin's writing -- much of which he produced at speed and with style to fill what would otherwise have been voids in the game -- and then compare them to cherry-picked excellences in PS:T.

Well, since I am guilty of doing what you just mentioned in this thread, by comparing the car companion and Zakkon, I hope that I won't come across too apologetic when I say it's all meant to be spoken in jest. Although I remain skeptical about how hilarious such car companion may turn out. Mixing humor into writing is hard, it seems.

On more serious note, I don't what the writing process with T:ToN was like, how the feedback was provided - but singling out individual writers as culprits sounds a bit counterproductive and unfair to me, I would think it's the project lead that should held responsible, given my belief that the ultimate design decisions lie with them, such as whether a particular piece fits into the setting in terms of tone or quality. I am willing to admit a particular asymmetry here, in case something is deemed brilliant, the individuals responsible should be heralded, on the other hand.

 

[Xzylvador]

Hope they eventually release a 'We'll create a fun game with an amazing story and engaging tactical combat" stretchgoal and reach that one, instead of some added cosmetics and a talking car.

 

[Elwro]

I wasn't so impressed by Wasteland 2. And I don't really care about the technical issues: the mechanics hadn't been really thought through, it would seem. And some areas, even though having nice creative touches, were mind-bogglingly boring. I'm quite surprised this got funded. I guess people want different things

 

[Kev Inkline]

Yeah, and it's autocorrected.

Just occurred to me - if they'd get someone with Don LaFontaine kind of voice to do voice acting for the car, it might turn cool, like the guy who did FC3: Blood Dragon trailer.

 

[Darkzone]

Concerning borring:
The problem of this kind of party based approach is that you can get eventually all skill with the highest level. And therefore WL2 turned out to be a create opening simulator. And the designers tried not to build several ways to approach a problem and with different solution. This has lead in many cases to the fact that this was quite boring.
InXile should have limited each party member to a set of certain skills in specific departement so that you cannot get all skills. And then design the game so that you can achive specific results just in differnt way (D:OS was quite strong in this, but it was quite unrestrained and that was also a problem).
One other problem of WL2 was the density of events like quests and tasks on specific maps, but this was better later in Bay Area. But then again it was obviouse what and how to do it to get a specific result.
If i look at Fallout 1 and 2 ( like more 1) i see many great decisions like hidden quests so that a search for the hidden quests made a lot of fun. In WL2 i can only remember the Jess Belle dowry as such a quest, but still it was quite obvious and the solutions came instantly and was not a result of looking for clues.

 

[Mark Richard]

I still haven’t figured out why pop culture references go together with post-apocalyptic RPGs like bacon & eggs.

 

[commie]

Well, since I am guilty of doing what you just mentioned in this thread, by comparing the car companion and Zakkon, I hope that I won't come across too apologetic when I say it's all meant to be spoken in jest. Although I remain skeptical about how hilarious such car companion may turn out. Mixing humor into writing is hard, it seems.

You should already know the kind of humour you will get with a Commie hating AI. It's going to be like Liberty Prime, I'll bet my arse on that.

I still haven’t figured out why pop culture references go together with post-apocalyptic RPGs like bacon & eggs.

That's obvious. Making ironic references to pop culture in such a setting is the cheapest slam dunk. Why try to input harrowing narrative about actual post-apoc survival like in movies like 'Threads' or 'The War Game'?Who wants to be depressed in a game where you shoot shit up and find the McGuffin?

Wasteland though was always on the 'wacky' side to begin with, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it. Better comparison would have been if STALKER was full of wacky moments instead of playing the bleak tone(equivalent of post apoc) straight as it did.

 

[prodigydancer]

I still haven’t figured out why pop culture references go together with post-apocalyptic RPGs like bacon & eggs.

Because they tend to feel less goofy when placed within some kind of pop-culture-is-dead context? It's doesn't have to be post-apoc though. A sci-fi dystopia is fine too (for example, every unique gun in the Borderlands series is a pop culture reference).

 

[Agame]

Wasteland though was always on the 'wacky' side to begin with, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it. Better comparison would have been if STALKER was full of wacky moments instead of playing the bleak tone(equivalent of post apoc) straight as it did.

Yea, Wasteland was built on wierd and wacky, I think if anything they held back way to much in W2, maybe trying to hard to fit into 'serious' post apoc but also 'hey look we have super strong mutant honey badgers and monks with nukes, craaaaaazy'.

They should just turn up the dial on wacky to 11 for W2, embrace it! Half the reason I like the original so much is the over the top 80s art style for the enemies.

 

[retamar]

I still haven’t figured out why pop culture references go together with post-apocalyptic RPGs like bacon & eggs.

Hello America, by JG Ballard, has a lot to do whit this, methinks.

 

[Zombra]

The problem of this kind of party based approach is that you can get eventually all skill with the highest level.

Ridiculous. This is a question of leveling rate and skill caps, not the fundamental system.

Look at Wizardry 8. Perfectly playable without degenerate grinding behavior and in a normal playthrough you will get to the end without maxing any skills. Wasteland 2 simply set the caps too low and made the leveling rate too high.

 

[Darkzone]

The problem of this kind of party based approach is that you can get eventually all skill with the highest level.

Ridiculous. This is a question of leveling rate and skill caps, not the fundamental system.
Look at Wizardry 8. Perfectly playable without degenerate grinding behavior and in a normal playthrough you will get to the end without maxing any skills. Wasteland 2 simply set the caps too low and made the leveling rate too high.

You are correct on this one and i am wrong.

 

[Kev Inkline]

The problem of this kind of party based approach is that you can get eventually all skill with the highest level.

Ridiculous. This is a question of leveling rate and skill caps, not the fundamental system.
Look at Wizardry 8. Perfectly playable without degenerate grinding behavior and in a normal playthrough you will get to the end without maxing any skills. Wasteland 2 simply set the caps too low and made the leveling rate too high.

You are correct on this one and i am wrong.

My goodness! I believe I have never before had the privlige to see anyone to behave in the Internet like you do, good Sir.

 

[Darkzone]

You are correct on this one and i am wrong.

My goodness! I believe I have never before had the privlige to see anyone to behave in the Internet like you do, good Sir.

Moral standards. People. Moral standards.
There will not break out a prong out of my crown, if i admit that i have made a mistake.

 

[Lurker King]

Wasteland though was always on the 'wacky' side to begin with, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it.

That it is like saying "Baldurs Gate always had RTwP, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it". No, it is not. The game would be better without this bullshit.

Why try to input harrowing narrative about actual post-apoc survival like in movies like 'Threads' or 'The War Game'? Who wants to be depressed in a game where you shoot shit up and find the McGuffin?

Because they can make the game more enjoyable and realistic, because some people actually want games to be more than mindless entertainment, because there is fun in bleak depressing scenarios when they are conveyed by fiction. Succesful games like "This War of Mine" and "NEO Scavenger" show that there is a market for this type of game. Instead of bad jokes about celebrities or pop references that have nothing to do with the setting, I want this:

or this

 

[Alienman]

Lurker King

Have you played The Last of Us? Should be right up your alley.

 

[Lurker King]

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't play because I don't have any consoles. The setting looks interesting, even if its a game for causals.

 

[Bester]

I didn't play because I don't have any consoles.

There's "PS NOW", which is official PS service that allows you to play PS3 games on pc. There's a free trial for a week.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Wasteland though was always on the 'wacky' side to begin with, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it.

That it is like saying "Baldurs Gate always had RTwP, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it". No, it is not. The game would be better without this bullshit.

Why try to input harrowing narrative about actual post-apoc survival like in movies like 'Threads' or 'The War Game'? Who wants to be depressed in a game where you shoot shit up and find the McGuffin?

Because they can make the game more enjoyable and realistic, because some people actually want games to be more than mindless entertainment, because there is fun in bleak depressing scenarios when they are conveyed by fiction. Succesful games like "This War of Mine" and "NEO Scavenger" show that there is a market for this type of game. Instead of bad jokes about celebrities or pop references that have nothing to do with the setting, I want this:

or this

I dunno man, I get depressed by an excessively grimdark dystopian setting in scifi games, I think there's a golden middle road here as well, like a demanding harsh wordl without the 4th wall breaking stuff. Iirc, FO1 succeeds pretty well in that. Also in SciFi, PKD novels convey that sort of feeling - desperate, at times comical, but not inane (say, for instance Dr. Bloodmoney).

Funnily, I think a desperate grim world is fine in fantasy games, I can't really say why I feel like that. (Warhammer > DnD).

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Wasteland though was always on the 'wacky' side to begin with, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it.

That it is like saying "Baldurs Gate always had RTwP, so it's a bit unfair to criticize it". No, it is not. The game would be better without this bullshit.

Why try to input harrowing narrative about actual post-apoc survival like in movies like 'Threads' or 'The War Game'? Who wants to be depressed in a game where you shoot shit up and find the McGuffin?

Because they can make the game more enjoyable and realistic, because some people actually want games to be more than mindless entertainment, because there is fun in bleak depressing scenarios when they are conveyed by fiction. Succesful games like "This War of Mine" and "NEO Scavenger" show that there is a market for this type of game. Instead of bad jokes about celebrities or pop references that have nothing to do with the setting, I want this:

or this

I dunno man, I get depressed by an excessively grimdark dystopian setting in scifi games, I think there's a golden middle road here as well, like a demanding harsh wordl without the 4th wall breaking stuff. Iirc, FO1 succeeds pretty well in that. Also in SciFi, PKD novels convey that sort of feeling - desperate, at times comical, but not inane (say, for instance Dr. Bloodmoney).

Funnily, I think a desperate grim world is fine in fantasy games, I can't really say why I feel like that. (Warhammer > DnD).

AD&D had its share of grimdark worlds, both in horror and survival main themes - Dark Sun, Ravenloft, also many parts of Planescape were pretty damn grim.

 

[Kev Inkline]

AD&D had it's share of grimdark worlds, both in horror and survival main themes - Dark Sun, Ravenloft, also many parts of Planescape were pretty damn grim.

Obviously you are correct here and I shouldn't have lumped all of DnD together for my example, but I just wanted a quick and dirty comparison - FR or Dragonlance vs. Kislev

 

[Volourn]

"Instead of bad jokes about celebrities or pop references that have nothing to do with the setting, I want this:"

Then don't play WL or FO. HOLY FUCK. btw,l I like dark and gritty but idiots are you are idiots for a reason. Devs make the game in the style they want. You decide if it is what you want. if it isn't don't fukkin' play it, move on, and play something more to your liking.

Also, it should be noted that a world like Fr can be dark and has a lot of 'darkness' to it. Ultimately it is up to the DM (or developer) to decide the path. Even BG series had its dark moments. Heck, Irenicus' lair had it. They had the dwarven child killer. They had MINSC. *shudder*

 

[Stainless Veteran]

AD&D had it's share of grimdark worlds, both in horror and survival main themes - Dark Sun, Ravenloft, also many parts of Planescape were pretty damn grim.

Obviously you are correct here and I shouldn't have lumped all of DnD together for my example, but I just wanted a quick and dirty comparison - FR or Dragonlance vs. Kislev

Well, it depends. Reading about Kislev for a slav is a quite funny experience, Chaos incursions notwithstanding. Kvas and droyashka, atamanka, boyar, Raspotitsa and ВЧК. After all this shit all grimness is kinda replaced by razvesistaya klyukva. Vostroya at least wasn't so prominently used in WH40k and it was more interesting visually.

 

[Kev Inkline]

AD&D had it's share of grimdark worlds, both in horror and survival main themes - Dark Sun, Ravenloft, also many parts of Planescape were pretty damn grim.

Obviously you are correct here and I shouldn't have lumped all of DnD together for my example, but I just wanted a quick and dirty comparison - FR or Dragonlance vs. Kislev

Well, it depends. Reading about Kislev for a slav is a quite funny experience, Chaos incursions notwithstanding. Kvas and droyashka, atamanka, boyar, Raspotitsa and ВЧК. After all this shit all grimness is kinda replaced by razvesistaya klyukva. Vostroya at least wasn't so prominently used in WH40k and it was more interesting visually.

Even if there's a danger of belaboring the point, but what I originally wanted to say is that grimdark and funny are not mutually exclusive, even without resorting childish jokes - although I don't quite understand what you just wrote .