Weird West: Definitive Edition - top-down immersive sim action-RPG from Arkane founder Raf Colantonio

[Spukrian]

Arx Fatalis 2 plz

 

[Softgels]

They better have something like The Clockwork Mansion.

 

[Tyranicon]

Honestly, half of the outsider powers in Dishonored already fit with a vampire theme, so I have no idea why Arkane didn't just make a vampire imsim game in the first place.

What fucking market test did they use to find that players wanted zoomer vampire hunters in a looter shooter? It's wtf territory.

 

[Alienman]

Something modern stealth based would be nice. Long time since we got a spy thriller.

 

[vortex]

Something modern stealth based would be nice. Long time since we got a thriller.

Not modern, medieval or steampunk is way better.

 

[Fedora Master]

Something modern stealth based would be nice. Long time since we got a spy thriller.

Stealthfags get treated worse than RPG Fags. You ain't ever gonna get a new good stealth game boy.

 

[Alienman]

Something modern stealth based would be nice. Long time since we got a spy thriller.

Stealthfags get treated worse than RPG Fags. You ain't ever gonna get a new good stealth game boy.

Trust me, I know. It would just be nice.

 

[Gargaune]

So back to first person 'immersive sim'. Wonder what the theme will be? Space again, or back to UU inspired worlds?

Colantonio has given us his takes on Ultima Underworld, Thief and System Shock... What's still missing?

Spoiler

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

Something modern stealth based would be nice. Long time since we got a spy thriller.

Stealthfags get treated worse than RPG Fags. You ain't ever gonna get a new good stealth game boy.

Trust me, I know. It would just be nice.

Well, there are some upcoming games that might scratch that itch (or make it worse):

- "Project 007", by the makers of Hitman: World of Assassination;
- the Splinter Cell Remake;
- the Perfect Dark reboot (near-future setting), and
- Core Decay (indie Deus Ex clone).

A new Deus Ex got greenlit, though we won't be seeing it any time soon. Worse yet, it might steer away from its immersive sim roots to chase that Cyberpunk money and try to "do what CP2077 couldn't" (according to game journo Jeff Grubb).

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

Where's that Virgin Harvey vs. Chad Raf meme when I need it?

Don't get too excited...

It's not ALL bad news. They are mostly a VC, so it's possible they are ONLY looking for funding. But this company is so attached to Web3 projects that it gives me pause and makes me think maybe they're doing something fishy

 

[Siel]

Where's that Virgin Harvey vs. Chad Raf meme when I need it?

Don't get too excited...

It's not ALL bad news. They are mostly a VC, so it's possible they are ONLY looking for funding. But this company is so attached to Web3 projects that it gives me pause and makes me think maybe they're doing something fishy

 

[Child of Malkav]

They better have something like The Clockwork Mansion.

Pfff, no way. With the minuscule budget they probably have it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Honestly, half of the outsider powers in Dishonored already fit with a vampire theme, so I have no idea why Arkane didn't just make a vampire imsim game in the first place.

What fucking market test did they use to find that players wanted zoomer vampire hunters in a looter shooter? It's wtf territory.

This, so much this + 1000000.

 

[ind33d]

Honestly, half of the outsider powers in Dishonored already fit with a vampire theme, so I have no idea why Arkane didn't just make a vampire imsim game in the first place.

What fucking market test did they use to find that players wanted zoomer vampire hunters in a looter shooter? It's wtf territory.

This, so much this + 1000000.

a vampire imsim is just VTMB2 lmao

 

[Child of Malkav]

a vampire imsim is just VTMB2 lmao

Eeeeehhhhhhh..........nnnnnnnnoooooooo.
Vtmb 1 isn't an imsim and Vtmb 2 is a collective hallucination.

 

[Bad Sector]

I spent the last few recent days playing again Prey and System Shock 2 and i wanted some fresh imsim. GOG had this on sale, so i decided to buy it.

First thing i did, trying to figure out the controls, was to break out of a window, start a dialog with an NPC while crouched and kicked a chicken that caused it to explode in blood and feathers. Also set a fire and buried my son while throwing random crap around to see how physics work.

I like that it is area based instead of trying to make a seamless and pointless world but it does look like that it is still technically open world since you can move around the map, there are random encounters and time passes while you move in the map. I only tried it between the two starting areas (your house and the first town) but it seems like it basically uses Fallout 1/2's approach to world navigation, which is always a plus in my book.

The main negative thing i see is that you don't make your own character but use a premade one and apparently you have to switch characters at set points. It kinda sucks though i already knew about it going on. Still sucks as i vastly prefer to build my own characters or at least grow a single character (or party) over the course of the entire game.

The camera feels weird no matter what the setting or control scheme (KBM or gamepad) but i guess i'll get used to it. Gamepad with the "free camera" aiming mode seems the closest to what you'd find in a 3rd person perspective game so at least there is that. IMO there should have been an option to lock the camera behind the character with FPS-like controls (think Max Payne or check this old video of a game i was working on years ago and imagine it a bit more zoomed out) - i think it'd feel better especially when using keyboard and mouse.

There isn't much more to say at the moment, it does look like a fun game from the little i saw though.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Codex's favorite internet funnyman chimes in:

 

[Child of Malkav]

The main negative thing i see is that you don't make your own character but use a premade one and apparently you have to switch characters at set points. It kinda sucks though i already knew about it going on. Still sucks as i vastly prefer to build my own characters or at least grow a single character (or party) over the course of the entire game.

The golden aces that you find can be used to buy perks and those are permanent, all characters get the benefits of the perks you get. Only the individual abilities change, as each character has his/her own set.The weapon abilities are the same and have to be bought each time you switch to a new character, if you use any of them that is.

 

[Latelistener]

So back to first person 'immersive sim'. Wonder what the theme will be? Space again, or back to UU inspired worlds?

Colantonio has given us his takes on Ultima Underworld, Thief and System Shock... What's still missing?

Spoiler

Deus Ex - Dishonored. It's Thief that is missing, but no one is going to make that game nowadays. It won't sell.

Although I've completed Dark Messiah for each class and assassin fit the game the most. That's probably the closest you will get to Thief from him.

 

[Gargaune]

Deus Ex - Dishonored. It's Thief that is missing, but no one is going to make that game nowadays. It won't sell.

Nah, that's just contrarianism, Dishonored was clearly Arkane's attempt to iterate on Thief. Nobody sets out to make "a" Deus Ex and ignores design dimensions like proper inventory management, run & gun, or "social" gameplay via dialogue, they took the basic notion of Thief and tried to embellish it with fancy powers and light RPG elements. You're free to think they messed it up, but that is what they were shooting for.

 

[Latelistener]

Deus Ex - Dishonored. It's Thief that is missing, but no one is going to make that game nowadays. It won't sell.

Nah, that's just contrarianism, Dishonored was clearly Arkane's attempt to iterate on Thief. Nobody sets out to make "a" Deus Ex and ignores design dimensions like proper inventory management, run & gun, or "social" gameplay via dialogue, they took the basic notion of Thief and tried to embellish it with fancy powers and light RPG elements. You're free to think they messed it up, but that is what they were shooting for.

Dishonored doesn't have detailed stealth systems to be considered a Thief-inspired game. Its stealth is based on line of sight and verticality, rather than lights and shadows. It doesn't have any kind of proper noise propagation system.

If they wanted to do them, they probably would, but it's a completely different game and their efforts were put elsewhere.

Instead, they focused on combat and combat systems are much more developed, especially with the use of powers. Stealth is secondary, considering you only have a few gadgets for it. At least in the first game.

Dishonored tries to combine stealth and combat equally, like Deus Ex did. It was designed that way. And that's what Deus Ex is about. Not about inventory management or dialogues.

 

[Dodo1610]

Dishonored is a best of stealth games with a generic fantasy action game attached to it in order to sell it to the mainstream.
-Setting up assassinations like in Hitman
-Verticallity and freedom of movement from Splinter Cell
-Immersive first-person from Thief
->Every level is designed to gives you multiple ways to sneak in and out without being seen

Meanwhile, the action is barebones and I doubt anyone ever finished these games playing it that way. Deus Ex is the opposite: You have a large arsenal of powerful weapons or you crudely walk behind your enemy and bonk or shoot them in the head.

 

[Roguey]

Dishonored doesn't have detailed stealth systems to be considered a Thief-inspired game. Its stealth is based on line of sight and verticality, rather than lights and shadows. It doesn't have any kind of proper noise propagation system.

If they wanted to do them, they probably would, but it's a completely different game and their efforts were put elsewhere.

Instead, they focused on combat and combat systems are much more developed, especially with the use of powers. Stealth is secondary, considering you only have a few gadgets for it. At least in the first game.

Dishonored tries to combine stealth and combat equally, like Deus Ex did. It was designed that way. And that's what Deus Ex is about. Not about inventory management or dialogues.

I've said it before but Dishonored is an Assassin version of Thief. You're getting hung up over details. It's not trying to be Deus Ex (which also has a light and noise based stealth system, come on).

The last level of the DLC is a freaking homage to the last part of Thief.

 

[Child of Malkav]

-Verticallity and freedom of movement from Splinter Cell Thief

Fixed it for you.

 

[Latelistener]

Meanwhile, the action is barebones and I doubt anyone ever finished these games playing it that way.

Play Dunwall Trials. That's all I have to say. They put MUCH more effort in combat than stealth.

Dishonored doesn't have detailed stealth systems to be considered a Thief-inspired game. Its stealth is based on line of sight and verticality, rather than lights and shadows. It doesn't have any kind of proper noise propagation system.

If they wanted to do them, they probably would, but it's a completely different game and their efforts were put elsewhere.

Instead, they focused on combat and combat systems are much more developed, especially with the use of powers. Stealth is secondary, considering you only have a few gadgets for it. At least in the first game.

Dishonored tries to combine stealth and combat equally, like Deus Ex did. It was designed that way. And that's what Deus Ex is about. Not about inventory management or dialogues.

I've said it before but Dishonored is an Assassin version of Thief. You're getting hung up over details. It's not trying to be Deus Ex (which also has a light and noise based stealth system, come on).

The last level of the DLC is a freaking homage to the last part of Thief.

It's exactly what's its trying to be. Watch some Harvey interviews about how they designed it. It's not Thief by a long shot. It was never even meant to be.

Just because it resembles Thief in some ways like sound and visual design, doesn't mean anything when it comes to the actual gameplay. It's also resembles Half-Life 2 because Antonov. Is it Half-Life 2 like game? Of course not.

Yeah. Deus Ex and Dishonored both have stealth and appropriate features like noise system, but it's not as detailed as it was in Thief because stealth is only an option for those games. And they both never really rely on shadows when it comes to stealth.

I guess this the easiest way to explain: