What class are you going to pick in the upcoming Pathfinder: Kingmaker?

[Cael]

So, in other words, you make all sorts of excuse not to play a better class. No wonder you rate weak classes so high, when you arbitrarily ban stronger classes.

Great replies. Very well thought out, buddy. You are a true master of solo builds.

Citing your levels of T as a reason not to play a range of classes is a well though out argument, I am sure.

 

[Roqua]

So, in other words, you make all sorts of excuse not to play a better class. No wonder you rate weak classes so high, when you arbitrarily ban stronger classes.

Great replies. Very well thought out, buddy. You are a true master of solo builds.

Citing your levels of T as a reason not to play a range of classes is a well though out argument, I am sure.

Its been scientifically proven only people with low T pick casters (the low T classes) in a solo game. And again, I hate the fact that NWN 2 let you rest after every fight. Why would I pick a class that needs to depend on that abuse to function well? If they had severely restricted resting, or even some punishment/negative tied to resting I would have probably looked into it. My melee bard with a prc I forget was a caster class that ran with tons of permanent buffs on in MoB including haste. I found out a way to make a caster that didn't rely on the key mechanic I hated.

Unless you are claiming I should have played a game in a way I absolutely hated by relying on a mechanic that I think ruined the game? In which case very well argued.

If you want, we can test builds on each other at various levels in the NWN2 PW BGTSCC.

 

[Cael]

So, in other words, you make all sorts of excuse not to play a better class. No wonder you rate weak classes so high, when you arbitrarily ban stronger classes.

Great replies. Very well thought out, buddy. You are a true master of solo builds.

Citing your levels of T as a reason not to play a range of classes is a well though out argument, I am sure.

Its been scientifically proven only people with low T pick casters (the low T classes) in a solo game. And again, I hate the fact that NWN 2 let you rest after every fight. Why would I pick a class that needs to depend on that abuse to function well? If they had severely restricted resting, or even some punishment/negative tied to resting I would have probably looked into it. My melee bard with a prc I forget was a caster class that ran with tons of permanent buffs on in MoB including haste. I found out a way to make a caster that didn't rely on the key mechanic I hated.

Unless you are claiming I should have played a game in a way I absolutely hated by relying on a mechanic that I think ruined the game? In which case very well argued.

If you want, we can test builds on each other at various levels in the NWN2 PW BGTSCC.

What you feel and what you think is irrelevant when discussing the relative power of various classes. Unlike SJWs, sane people do not subscribe to the notion that just because they believe something ought to happen, it will happen and to hell with laws of physics. They also do not pull out unsubstantiated "research" out of their ass as some sort of validation, unlike SJWs.

You can hate a mechanic of the game all you want, but that does not detract from a class' effectiveness. If you don't want to play such a class, that is your perogative, but do not claim that your build is the best out there. It may be the best that you can come up with, given your artificial restrictions, but the game does not have those restrictions and therefore, they are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Roqua]

What you feel and what you think is irrelevant when discussing the relative power of various classes. Unlike SJWs, sane people do not subscribe to the notion that just because they believe something ought to happen, it will happen and to hell with laws of physics. They also do not pull out unsubstantiated "research" out of their ass as some sort of validation, unlike SJWs.

You can hate a mechanic of the game all you want, but that does not detract from a class' effectiveness. If you don't want to play such a class, that is your perogative, but do not claim that your build is the best out there. It may be the best that you can come up with, given your artificial restrictions, but the game does not have those restrictions and therefore, they are irrelevant to the discussion.

Sounds just like what a low T would say.

 

[Cael]

What you feel and what you think is irrelevant when discussing the relative power of various classes. Unlike SJWs, sane people do not subscribe to the notion that just because they believe something ought to happen, it will happen and to hell with laws of physics. They also do not pull out unsubstantiated "research" out of their ass as some sort of validation, unlike SJWs.

You can hate a mechanic of the game all you want, but that does not detract from a class' effectiveness. If you don't want to play such a class, that is your perogative, but do not claim that your build is the best out there. It may be the best that you can come up with, given your artificial restrictions, but the game does not have those restrictions and therefore, they are irrelevant to the discussion.

Sounds just like what a low T would say.

Interesting that you believe that SJWs are high T. Very interesting, soyboy.

 

[Roqua]

Interesting that you believe that SJWs are high T. Very interesting, soyboy.

Bro, I can lift like 50 lbs. I can do the hundred meter dash in under 30 seconds. Does that sound like low T to you, dude? You know how handsome my mother told me I am? She said any girl would be lucky to have me. Ands that's just from my mother, bro. My father says way better things.

 

[Thonius]

Well from what I saw if you're solo caster in Kingmaker - you will have a bad time. Not enough provisions and your nature skill will be low, so you cannot rest spam.

 

[Cael]

Interesting that you believe that SJWs are high T. Very interesting, soyboy.

Bro, I can lift like 50 lbs. I can do the hundred meter dash in under 30 seconds. Does that sound like low T to you, dude? You know how handsome my mother told me I am? She said any girl would be lucky to have me. Ands that's just from my mother, bro. My father says way better things.

Bullshit! With that much soy in you, you'd be lucky to lift 10lb. Stop with the retarded stats that no one sane will ever believe.

As for your father, let me break it to you gently: When he said you were a XXXY boy, he did not mean you are sexy.

 

[Darkzone]

Spoiler

Results in:
Ability of casting 4th Level arcane spells (4,4,3,2,1 +10), (low mid tier)
+7d6 Sneak Attack, (high mid tier)
Base Attack (+2 (R 3Lv), +2(W 5Lv), +5(AT 10Lv), +2(EK 2Lv) == 11,6,1 ), (mid tier)
Saves ((1,3,1)3Lv R, (1,1,4)5Lv W, (3,5,5)10Lv AT, (1,1,1)2Lv EK == 6,10,11). (mid tier)
Initiative: D20 + Dex bonus + Improved Initiative (+4) (EK Bonus Combat Feat).
As i already said: Jack of all trades, master of none. "Surprise Spells" is good, but you need a high initiative to play it out and classes that have Uncanny Dodge break this ability. Impromptu Sneak Attack allows you to deal 2*7d6 a day (could be even in the same round), which is not that high in DnD 3.5E and Pathfinder. Would your build look like that?

I'm not sure how you're computing this. In D&D, a level 20 Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight can have a caster level of 20, with access to Level 8 spells.

You are correct. I have due to some fucking flu virus misread the AT in Pathfinder Core book or it can be also that because i'm too much now into the DnD 5E. In DnD 5E the AT is a Archteype of R and it can only reach 4th level spells. But it is rather that both things are responsible for my misreading.
Errata:
Ability of casting 4th Level arcane spells (4,4,4,4,4,3,3,2), (low high tier) or Ability of casting 4th Level arcane spells (4,4,4,4,4,4,3,2,1), (mid high tier) (without EK)

Impromptu Sneak attack is nice, but not necessary at all to land sneak attacks due to all of their spell casting. Eldritch Knight isn't necessary, which means you can even have access to Level 9 spells if you want. If you're playing pathfinder, feats can make it so that you're an equivalent caster of Level 18, with a casting Level of 20. Trading 1 Level 8 spell and 2 Level 9 spells to keep paces with a high level rogue and a 10+ level fighter in addition to all of your spellcasting is sweet deal.

The way the class plays, and its strengths merely plays well when you gish it up. Particularly if you dual weild and focus in spells which incapacitate. Even at level 10, when it is a bit awkward, it is at worst a fully functional rogue of equivalent level with Level 4 spells. Endless skills + decent versatile sneak attack + nearly full spell casting + decent BAB is a great deal. It's like what a 3rd edition bard SHOULD be, without being awful or gimmicky song shtick. The endurance and versatility of the character is also superb. It's a character that excels and encourages creativity. That makes it fun to play, rather than leaning on a crossbow for 80% of your actions until you're maximum level. Though I guess you might be playing a softball module where you can fully rest after every telegraphed encounter, which would explain your antipathy. When I like to power game, it's all about illusionists and shadow adept/casters.

I wouldn't call it a fully functional Rogue, because he lacks in Rogue talents, Uncanny dodge, perhaps Improved Evasion and has not a good Trap sense (not that important).
I concur with you that you gain martial versatility, but at cost of magical versatility and strength. You are constantly 3 spell caster levels behind a Wizard through the entire game, because you sacrifice it for the 3 Rogue class levels. And you will constantly deal 1d6-3d6 ~ 3.5 - 10.5 (standard spell) less damage than a Wizard with the same spells. You will also get spells later than a pure Wizard: as a example you will get Lightning Bolt or Fireball not on Lv5, but on Lv8. That is quite the difference in a game.
Also the DC for saving throws is lower, due to lower level spells that you can cast at the same character level and the 3 lacking feats that you could spend to modify your spell DC, like Elemental Focus and Greater Elemental Focus, Focused Spell, Favored Enemy Spellcasting, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus or Tenacious Transmutation.
So the question is if the +7d6 ~ 24.5, Evasion and Rogue Talent are that good as a trade for up to 3 Bonus Feats (Metamagic, Spell Mastery or Item creation) and spell damage?

If you're playing pathfinder, feats can make it so that you're an equivalent caster of Level 18, with a casting Level of 20.

Please name always the feat and the book in that the feat is described, so that i don't have to search it.
You probably mean "Maximize Spell" which makes the spell a 3lv higher Spell, but it doesn't affect the DC. Intensified Spell would work for the AT due to only 3-4 caster level difference, but for most of the spells only after you reach Lv19 - Lv20, while a pure W would need only Lv16. The W would still do 1d6-3d6 more dmg and with Intensified Spell additionally 1d6-5d6 more, so that W could on Lv16 do 2d6-8d6 more spell dmg than the AT. I would like also to add that you lose the Lv8 skill from your chosen W school.
Btw.:
Bard in DnD 5E is as neat class.
And i have no antipathy against the AT, because of a full rest softball module. I give explicate the validity for AT, because he never runs out of mid damage dealing potential even without a rest, contrary to the pure W. From your first post i have assumed that this is one of your valid reasons for this build.

 

[ArchAngel]

DC of the spell has nothing to do with caster level. Being 3 caster levels behind determines your access to higher levels spells, damage of spells that are caster level x DX and your chance to break through Spell Resistance of the enemies (and duration of spells but most of the time that does not matter from mid game and higher). You are mixing it again with 5th edition where caster level decides DC of spells.

 

[Darkzone]

DC of the spell has nothing to do with caster level. Being 3 caster levels behind determines your access to higher levels spells, damage of spells that are caster level x DX and your chance to break through Spell Resistance of the enemies (and duration of spells but most of the time that does not matter from mid game and higher). You are mixing it again with 5th edition where caster level decides DC of spells.

I have written it misleading, because i include implicite the lower level Spells, due to use of 3 levels in the Rogue class and possible feats that increase the DC of spells, like Elemental Focus and Greater Elemental Focus, Focused Spell, Favored Enemy Spellcasting, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus or Tenacious Transmutation. DC is calculated by 10 + spell level + modifier (feats inclusive). I will correct it.
In DnD 5E the DC is calculated by 8 + spellcasting ability modifier (Int or Cha or etc)+ plus proficiency bonus (based on character level) + special modifiers, therefore it is even more simple and the spell caster level in multiclass characters has also nothing to do with the DC.

 

[Theldaran]

With so much abuse over D&D rules, who dares to go into deep discussion? Five editions worth of D&D, Pathfinder... This is even worse than the D&D/AD&D divide.

My point is, stop nitpicking about rules details, or if you do it, at least be accurate.

 

[rashiakas]

So much wrong/bad info in this thread.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Monk, because there are no monk companions and I'm a sucker for hand to hand combat.

 

[Thonius]

Guys you're way overthinking it. You can roll retarded wizard and still finish the game.... it's modern game.

 

[bataille]

retarded wizard

Why do it, though? After all, I thought, RPG Games are about giving up your real life character and taking up a new persona entirely.........

 

[Mastermind]

pirate, and i intent to larp one starting with the game's acquisition

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I'm going to wait until the game comes out and then spend 3 hours reading all the in game info on classes before I decide.

But probably sorc.

 

[Crichton]

Dwarven Cleric, I always start with a dwarven cleric; not sure about these tumblr-spawn companions though, might just hire some more dwarves at the nearest tavern.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Guys you're way overthinking it. You can roll retarded wizard and still finish the game.... it's modern game.

Max out strength and be a muscle wizard

 

[Roqua]

Not enough provisions and your nature skill will be low, so you cannot rest spam.

This news is interesting. So resting is restricted by the nature skill? I tried finding more information and came up with nothing. Their wiki for the game doesn't even go into this at all, or mention it in the skill: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Lore:_Nature

Is it restricted in dungeons by a different skill? The skills page doesn't list anything that would make sense, like dungeonering - https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Skills

Could you please give details about this? I would assume as long as party members had it you could camp, but your quote above indicates a lead caster without nature skill will have restricted resting. This sounds pretty awesome and would fix the rest spamming nonsense that completely ruined NWN2 in my opinion.

 

[Cael]

If you're playing pathfinder, feats can make it so that you're an equivalent caster of Level 18, with a casting Level of 20.

Please name always the feat and the book in that the feat is described, so that i don't have to search it.
You probably mean "Maximize Spell" which makes the spell a 3lv higher Spell, but it doesn't affect the DC. Intensified Spell would work for the AT due to only 3-4 caster level difference, but for most of the spells only after you reach Lv19 - Lv20, while a pure W would need only Lv16. The W would still do 1d6-3d6 more dmg and with Intensified Spell additionally 1d6-5d6 more, so that W could on Lv16 do 2d6-8d6 more spell dmg than the AT. I would like also to add that you lose the Lv8 skill from your chosen W school.

I think he means Practiced Spellcaster, a feat that also exists in 3.5. It basically elevates your caster level by 3 or to equal to your HD, whichever is lower.

Therefore, for a AT, where you lose 3 wizard levels because of the rogue levels, at level 20 (assuming rogue 3/wiz 7/AT 10), you are a 17th level wizard with the spells per day of a 17th level wizard and the spells known for free of a 17th level wizard, but your caster level is 20 with that feat, with all the implications that that has on SR penetration, damage, range, etc.

For a EK, however, even though you are a Ranger 1/Wizard 9/EK10, with the spells per day of a 18th level wizard, the feat will only elevate your caster level to 20, which is your HD.

 

[Darkzone]

If you're playing pathfinder, feats can make it so that you're an equivalent caster of Level 18, with a casting Level of 20.

Please name always the feat and the book in that the feat is described, so that i don't have to search it.
You probably mean "Maximize Spell" which makes the spell a 3lv higher Spell, but it doesn't affect the DC. Intensified Spell would work for the AT due to only 3-4 caster level difference, but for most of the spells only after you reach Lv19 - Lv20, while a pure W would need only Lv16. The W would still do 1d6-3d6 more dmg and with Intensified Spell additionally 1d6-5d6 more, so that W could on Lv16 do 2d6-8d6 more spell dmg than the AT. I would like also to add that you lose the Lv8 skill from your chosen W school.

I think he means Practiced Spellcaster, a feat that also exists in 3.5. It basically elevates your caster level by 3 or to equal to your HD, whichever is lower.
Therefore, for a AT, where you lose 3 wizard levels because of the rogue levels, at level 20 (assuming rogue 3/wiz 7/AT 10), you are a 17th level wizard with the spells per day of a 17th level wizard and the spells known for free of a 17th level wizard, but your caster level is 20 with that feat, with all the implications that that has on SR penetration, damage, range, etc.
For a EK, however, even though you are a Ranger 1/Wizard 9/EK10, with the spells per day of a 18th level wizard, the feat will only elevate your caster level to 20, which is your HD.

My search in Pathfinder Books and Pathfinder SDRs for Practiced Spellcaster, that is featured in DnD 3E in "Complete Arcane" and "Complete Divine", was futile. And in Pathfinder Forums the poster stated, that a corresponding Feat too Practiced Spellcaster does not exist. Therefore my whole theater with the Maximize Spell and Intensified Spell. What does exist in Pathfinder to cover this at the expense of Feats is the Prestigious Spellcaster (Pathfinder Companion: Path of the Righteous on Pg. 3). The Prestigious Spellcaster Feat grants +1 level of spellcasting for a Favored Prestige Class, if the FPC doesn't grant you an increase in effective level for the purpose of casting spells on a specific level, like the AA and EK. But the AT and LM are for this reason excluded from the Feat. So in this manner he could compensate the EK 1st level since he recives a Bonus Combat Feat form EK at level 1 and so he could get the 9th level spells even with the EK. That would leave the W/R/AT/EK then at 4 (Metamagic and Spellcasting) magic Feats behind the W, but the AT could still invest 10 (11 for Human) Feats in magic.

It would be very funny if he would go that route, but the level cap for the main campaign would be at 15.

The game includes all 6 AP Modules, as well as an additional post-campaign chapter which will take players all the way to level 20.

 

[Reinhardt]

Guys you're way overthinking it. You can roll retarded wizard and still finish the game.... it's modern game.

Max out strength and be a muscle wizard

 

[Thonius]

Not enough provisions and your nature skill will be low, so you cannot rest spam.

This news is interesting. So resting is restricted by the nature skill? I tried finding more information and came up with nothing. Their wiki for the game doesn't even go into this at all, or mention it in the skill: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Lore:_Nature

Is it restricted in dungeons by a different skill? The skills page doesn't list anything that would make sense, like dungeonering - https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Skills

Could you please give details about this? I would assume as long as party members had it you could camp, but your quote above indicates a lead caster without nature skill will have restricted resting. This sounds pretty awesome and would fix the rest spamming nonsense that completely ruined NWN2 in my opinion.

To successfully rest you need to place camp ( not all places are OK), have food to cook ( provisions), set up guard (to prevent ambush) and from every stream it seems that provisions are limited (you can hunt to get some provisions). Granted there are companions with lore nature skill, but you cannot assign them to all duties.
I believe they gathered bunch of skill and simplified them aka Arcane includes planar knowledge, magic etc, and they included different types of check in same skills ( sometimes it WIS, sometimes INT depends on a a check).