Decline What controller do you nerds use?

[JamesDixon]

I might have been misleading with the "came" part, i meant that it was available from the beginning, not that you got one out of the box.

So you lied to make an argument. That lie invalidates everything you had said to this point.

Yes but regardless, the point was that controllers were available on PCs and home computers from the beginning.

Which doesn't defeat my point about the keyboard and mouse being the default controls on the PC. The rest are accessories that you can add on.

By reading about it, i have several books on the early gaming and computer history which provide several different viewpoints and hence a more rounded view than what a single viewpoint would ever have.

Which said information comes from people who were alive during that period. You literally just destroyed your argument about being alive unnecessary.

I mean, how do you think history before 1900 is known?

By interviewing and recording what people who lived through it said. Which means being alive through that period is necessary. Tell me are you this bad in debating points normally?

I do not really have any modern consoles (i have a PS2 but i got it 6-7 years ago to do some retro programming but never went around it and only got a single game for it).

I don't care.

Yes, which is something i already brought up - "the power and flexibility of the PC to be able to use any sort of input device".

Which are accessories not the default control method of keyboard and mouse. That's a disingenuous argument you made.

My issue is associating PCs with keyboard and mouse, as if using anything else is "not PC" - which is clearly wrong because the PC can use any input device and controllers specifically were available on home computers even before the IBM PC itself was a thing, not to mention how the mouse itself was very rare on PCs and home computers (Mac aside) before Windows became mainstream.

As accessories not as standard like the consoles do. With the consoles keyboard and mouse are optional and not every game supports it. Hence the reason why my joke is hilarious and in your pursuit of being pedantic ignored it. Thanks for proving my point that PCs are superior to consoles as you can use add-ons to improve them. You didn't think your argument through to completion did you?

 

[Bad Sector]

So you lied to make an argument. That lie invalidates everything you had said to this point.

What lie? When i wrote that part i didn't consider you'd think that i mean that the very first IBM PC had a joystick out of the box, i meant that joysticks were available from the beginning. I wrote that "I might have been misleading" because after reading again what i and you wrote, i realized that i wrote could be misleading like that, not that i was intentionally trying to mislead (let alone "lie") to you.

Which doesn't defeat my point about the keyboard and mouse being the default controls on the PC. The rest are accessories that you can add on.

What point, your original post had no point at all, all you wrote was "A mechanical keyboard and a 7200 DPI laser mouse. Controllers are for retards and console morons who are fake gamers. PC Master Race 4 Eva!".

Which said information comes from people who were alive during that period. You literally just destroyed your argument about being alive unnecessary. [...] By interviewing and recording what people who lived through it said. Which means being alive through that period is necessary. Tell me are you this bad in debating points normally?

Are you this bad in trying to understand what others write normally? I obviously do not need to be alive myself to gain that information.

I don't care.

Obviously, otherwise if the apparent effort you make to understand what others write was the extent of your mental abilities, i'd be surprised you could even find the switch to turn on your computer.

Which are accessories not the default control method of keyboard and mouse. That's a disingenuous argument you made.

What disingenuous argument? You just replied to a part that i agreed with what you wrote, learn to read what others write.

As accessories not as standard like the consoles do. With the consoles keyboard and mouse are optional and not every game supports it. Hence the reason why my joke is hilarious and in your pursuit of being pedantic ignored it.

Why are you bringing up consoles here, who gives a shit what consoles support or not?

Thanks for proving my point that PCs are superior to consoles as you can use add-ons to improve them. You didn't think your argument through to completion did you?

What proving your point, this is something i agreed to and was writing from the beginning of the post! Honestly, your smug "you didn't think your argument through to completion" is baffling when what you wrote is something not only i didn't even disagreed with but i even wrote that is the source of PC's superiority from the very first post i replied to you.

Do you really want to argue that much that you do not even bother to read what you are arguing about?

 

[JamesDixon]

So you lied to make an argument. That lie invalidates everything you had said to this point.

What lie? When i wrote that part i didn't consider you'd think that i mean that the very first IBM PC had a joystick out of the box, i meant that joysticks were available from the beginning. I wrote that "I might have been misleading" because after reading again what i and you wrote, i realized that i wrote could be misleading like that, not that i was intentionally trying to mislead (let alone "lie") to you.

Which doesn't defeat my point about the keyboard and mouse being the default controls on the PC. The rest are accessories that you can add on.

What point, your original post had no point at all, all you wrote was "A mechanical keyboard and a 7200 DPI laser mouse. Controllers are for retards and console morons who are fake gamers. PC Master Race 4 Eva!".

Which said information comes from people who were alive during that period. You literally just destroyed your argument about being alive unnecessary. [...] By interviewing and recording what people who lived through it said. Which means being alive through that period is necessary. Tell me are you this bad in debating points normally?

Are you this bad in trying to understand what others write normally? I obviously do not need to be alive myself to gain that information.

I don't care.

Obviously, otherwise if the apparent effort you make to understand what others write was the extent of your mental abilities, i'd be surprised you could even find the switch to turn on your computer.

Which are accessories not the default control method of keyboard and mouse. That's a disingenuous argument you made.

What disingenuous argument? You just replied to a part that i agreed with what you wrote, learn to read what others write.

As accessories not as standard like the consoles do. With the consoles keyboard and mouse are optional and not every game supports it. Hence the reason why my joke is hilarious and in your pursuit of being pedantic ignored it.

Why are you bringing up consoles here, who gives a shit what consoles support or not?

Thanks for proving my point that PCs are superior to consoles as you can use add-ons to improve them. You didn't think your argument through to completion did you?

What proving your point, this is something i agreed to and was writing from the beginning of the post! Honestly, your smug "you didn't think your argument through to completion" is baffling when what you wrote is something not only i didn't even disagreed with but i even wrote that is the source of PC's superiority from the very first post i replied to you.

Do you really want to argue that much that you do not even bother to read what you are arguing about?

I'm not the moron that is confusing the CX40 Joystick...

with an Xbox/PS Controller.

A joystick is not a controller. It is a Joystick. That's an invalid comparison logical fallacy.

Now I tire of your idiocy. If you have something intelligent to say let me know.

 

[Bad Sector]

I'm not the moron that is confusing the CX40 Joystick... with an Xbox/PS Controller.

Actually...

A joystick is not a controller. It is a Joystick. That's an invalid comparison logical fallacy.

...joysticks are controllers too. You are confusing gamepads with controllers and thinking they are exactly the same but a controller (in the gaming context) is any input device used for gaming (hence the name of the original IBM PC card "game control adapter" which was largely used to connect joysticks). Both gamepads and joysticks (but also paddles, wheels, etc) are types of controllers.

A quick Google search would show you the difference in the first few results. Here is Wikipedia's article on gamepad:

A gamepad is a type of game controller held in two hands, where the fingers (especially thumbs) are used to provide input. They are typically the main input device for video game consoles.

Here is Wikipedia's article on controllers:

A game controller, gaming controller, or simply controller, is an input device used with video games or entertainment systems to provide input to a video game, typically to control an object or character in the game.

The same article has all the expected variants of controllers, like joysticks, gamepads, steering wheels, paddles, etc.

Notice that in my posts so far i explicitly referred to controllers in general and not specifically to gamepads.

 

[JamesDixon]

I'm not the moron that is confusing the CX40 Joystick... with an Xbox/PS Controller.

Actually...

A joystick is not a controller. It is a Joystick. That's an invalid comparison logical fallacy.

...joysticks are controllers too. You are confusing gamepads with controllers and thinking they are exactly the same but a controller (in the gaming context) is any input device used for gaming (hence the name of the original IBM PC card "game control adapter" which was largely used to connect joysticks). Both gamepads and joysticks (but also paddles, wheels, etc) are types of controllers.

A quick Google search would show you the difference in the first few results. Here is Wikipedia's article on gamepad:

A gamepad is a type of game controller held in two hands, where the fingers (especially thumbs) are used to provide input. They are typically the main input device for video game consoles.

Here is Wikipedia's article on controllers:

A game controller, gaming controller, or simply controller, is an input device used with video games or entertainment systems to provide input to a video game, typically to control an object or character in the game.

The same article has all the expected variants of controllers, like joysticks, gamepads, steering wheels, paddles, etc.

Notice that in my posts so far i explicitly referred to controllers in general and not specifically to gamepads.

Oh look at the pedantic moron on display. The argument wasn't about controllers retard. You made an invalid comparison with Joysticks that are a distinct controller with an XBox/PS controller that is also distinct. Also, the keyboard and mouse are controllers as well. Are you normally this stupid or did you get a gender studies degree in it?

Also, citing Wikiepedia is hilarious as only fucktards and walking advertisements for post birth abortion cite it. I could care less what the fuck you think. Welcome to the stupid list.

 

[Bad Sector]

The argument wasn't about controllers

Your post i replied to wrote "Controllers are for retards and console morons who are fake gamers. PC Master Race 4 Eva!".

You made an invalid comparison with Joysticks that are a distinct controller with an XBox/PS controller that is also distinct. Also, the keyboard and mouse are controllers as well.

I never made any comparison between different types of controllers, i wrote that PCs and home computers had all sorts controllers from the beginning.

Also, citing Wikiepedia is hilarious as only fucktards and walking advertisements for post birth abortion cite it. I could care less what the fuck you think. Welcome to the stupid list.

Ah of course, between you and Wikipedia, it is Wikipedia that is unreliable, how original :-P

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Nothing sadder than two old nerds fighting over joysticks.

I have a question: for those that used DS4 controllers with DS4Windows for years and loved them, did you ever find something that made you switch over? Personally I've never found anything better but I'm willing to broaden my horizons here and be enlightened. I used to get DualShocks for $25 on sale but no more unless you'd settle for cheap counterfeits and knockoffs.

 

[ferratilis]

The only winner in the argument between you two is autism.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I ain't reading all your gay shit you guys are typing out about controllers but I just wanted to add that the idea of a peripheral with its own screen seems neat. I've never played any of those consoles that have them so idk how it works in practice.

The features you see here couldn't be done without the extra hardware and I think it's kinda interesting and seems like it offers a better experience than the PC version.

 

[Faarbaute]

I ain't reading all your gay shit you guys are typing out about controllers but I just wanted to add that the idea of a peripheral with its own screen seems neat. I've never played any of those consoles that have them so idk how it works in practice.

The features you see here couldn't be done without the extra hardware and I think it's kinda interesting and seems like it offers a better experience than the PC version.

I would have loved it as a child for sure. My friend had those Nintendo 8 bit pistol controllers to play Duck Hunter with and I thought it was the coolest shit ever. Something about the tactile feeling of using unique peripherals to influence the game, over just the basic control pad scheme, was super impressive to me back then. I always loved gadgets of all kinds, though.

 

[Gregz]

Xbox 360 Wireless Controller

 

[Shadowfang]

Spoiler

Retrobit Sega Genisis 6 Button Controller and Hori Hayabusa RAP V for PC/Switch.

 

[k0syak]

8bitdo SF30 pro. Great controller, only complaint is the shoulder button pairs are too tightly placed, but that's the price for having a more slim profile.
Had a logitech before for years, but the d-pad went bust.

 

[Valestein]

I use a cheapo wired only PDP X1 controller.

Shot of this and my Six Button Genesis, SNES and NES controllers i use for added IMMERSHUN in retro gaming.

I eventually plan on getting N64 and Turbografx 16 USB pads as well.

 

[Kaivokz]

When I can't use a m&kb, I also use a Retrobit 6 button genesis controller for any game that doesn't require joysticks.

I don't really have a preference for controllers with joysticks, but I currently have a switch pro controller and a ps5 controller. Between the two I prefer the ps5 by far, I still wouldn't call it a great controller. I honestly enjoy the idea behind joycons; hands are on separate devices just like m&kb. If someone made a more comfortable joycon-style split controller, I'd probably use that.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Xbox 360 Wired controller. That thing is indestructible.

 

[Modron]

Xbox 360 Wired controller. That thing is indestructible.

The joysticks wear out eventually, get loose and are a nightmare for games without deadzones built in or that allow you to adjustable them.

 

[somerandomdude]

The joysticks are unfortunately junk on any of the most popular pads, they're made by a company called Alps.



I like the feel of the dual sense 5 controller, however they don't last. Gamestop sells a warranty on them for like $14, and if the pad goes bad in a year, they replace it. And then they will sell you another $14 warranty to extend it for another year on the new one you just got. At the very first sign of any stick drift, I just exchange it. I've had pads last as little as 3 months, or for as long as 8, but nothing ever lasts a whole year. Overall, it ends up being about the same price, or cheaper than just buying cheap wired controllers, because I don't ever pay full price for a new pad, I only pay $14 to get warranty renewals.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I'm going to perform an act of necromancy to continue talking about my controller woes. I have an XBOX One controller, a wireless one that works via bluetooth. The "down" command on the d pad is double clickling from time to time which makes me feel I should get another one. I'm thinking of just sticking with this one (it's a negligible issue after all) but I've been looking at some controllers. The Xbox ones have triplicated their price since 2019, holy shit. Even the PowerA ones are expensive, and they actually cost more than what I paid for the original controller I own. The Logitech 310 seems nice but the dead zones make me worry a bit. I'm eyeing a few other, cheaper controllers but build quality and dead zones seem to be shit for almost all of them. Pretty much everyone says anything that's not an xbox controller has shit sticks, and even with the glaring deadzones, the 310 seems to be the best option. So yeah. Any opinions?

 

[beardalaxy]

DualShock 4. Pinnacle of controllers right now, as far as I'm concerned. The DualSense feels super weird in my hands, and at least Ratchet and Clank's adaptive trigger feature makes the controller feel like somebody spilled Sprite on it and couldn't quite get it out of the triggers. The only unfortunate thing about using a PS controller instead of an Xbox one is that not every game has the pictures for PS button prompts, but you get over that eventually. The touchpad on a DS4 or DS though makes it really nice for PC games that can swap between controller and KBM mid-game, so you can use it for extra hotkeys or even things like quick save. When I played Witcher 3, I had the left touchpad set to quick save and the right touch pad set to open up the inventory tab. Something along those lines. Pretty nifty.

I have had my DS4 controllers since the launch of the PS4, so almost 10 years now, and I've never had issues with any of them beyond the rubber on the sticks peeling off of a couple. Simple switch, super easy. I know a lot of people have had battery issues, but that has never been the case for any of mine (I had 5, just sold 2 of them a couple months ago along with all my other PS stuff).

My favorite controller of all time is actually a Wii U Pro Controller. That thing just feels super natural and the way the sticks glide is glorious. Unfortunately mine broke, hopefully I can get another one when my friend goes to Japan, said he would pick one up for me. I know that's a super weird controller for most people, though. I just like it because I'm weird too.

Of course, I'll always use the Gamecube controller if I can get away with it. It doesn't have enough buttons on it for most games, but for the games it does, that thing is just primo. I grew up with it, so it makes sense it would feel pretty natural for me to use.

I'm going to perform an act of necromancy to continue talking about my controller woes. I have an XBOX One controller, a wireless one that works via bluetooth. The "down" command on the d pad is double clickling from time to time which makes me feel I should get another one. I'm thinking of just sticking with this one (it's a negligible issue after all) but I've been looking at some controllers. The Xbox ones have triplicated their price since 2019, holy shit. Even the PowerA ones are expensive, and they actually cost more than what I paid for the original controller I own. The Logitech 310 seems nice but the dead zones make me worry a bit. I'm eyeing a few other, cheaper controllers but build quality and dead zones seem to be shit for almost all of them. Pretty much everyone says anything that's not an xbox controller has shit sticks, and even with the glaring deadzones, the 310 seems to be the best option. So yeah. Any opinions?

I have heard that 8bitdo controllers are pretty good, but I can't confirm that as I've never personally used one.

 

[Elthosian]

My main controller until very recently was a Dualsense I got last November. So far it hasn't shown any signs of stick drift, and it's honestly a great controller: neat d-pad, good analog triggers, gyro if you use it in wired mode, rechargeable battery, and glorious USB-C instead of the DualShock 4's awful microUSB which can come off ridiculously easily while you're in the middle of a gaming session.

However, driven by the fear of losing it to drift, I decided to scour the net for something that had a rechargeable battery, good support with ongoing updates, and some extra goodies like paddles and gyroscope. The only one that fitted the bill was the 8Bitdo Ultimate Bluetooth and oh boy, it has been amazing. Hall effect sticks keep the drift way! They come with a charging base that can house the 2.4G antenna, meaning you only need a to occupy a single port for both the base and the wireless adapter (or you can connect it to the wall and use bluetooth, whatever). The best part, however, is that the moment you pick it up it gets recognized instantly by the PC, which is something I value a lot given that wireless mode in other controllers I've used is much less reliable and sometimes I had to go into the bluetooth menu to get them to connect. On top of that, the paddles are nice, triggers are comfortable, d-pad is ok (haven't tried it extensively yet so dunno if you can play SF with those), the components don't feel cheap at all, and boy, the software allows you to do a lot of customization. Behold:

These cost me 63 and 80 USD respectively (the second one came with a neat case) and have powered my co-op adventures since earlier this month. Regular price is 70 USD. One thing to note is that they don't come with the Xbox layout. Instead, they're all like the one on the right. If you want to change the layout you need to buy the buttons for 3 bucks from their website, so make sure to do so the moment you buy the controller, or else you'll have to pay 7 USD for shipping alone. And ofc you have to open up the controller so make sure you have a toolkit around. Also, this might not be an issue in most situations but as of today you can't have gyro and analog triggers at the same time for some weird firmware related reason as the gyro mode emulates a Switch controller and the analog trigger mode emulates an Xbox controller.

Btw, the Dualshock 4 controllers are beasts. I've had 2 of them for 4 years now and they still work great, they would be the perfect controller if they had USB-C instead of microUSB. If you can get one of these for cheap and don't mind the connector, feel free to use them. Just be aware that if you want full functionality, including the gyro and the touchpad AFAIK, you must play in wired mode (hence my bitching about microUSB) (check beardalaxy 's post below this for a more accurate assessment of DS4's wireless capabilities) or buy Sony's proprietary USB adapter for 80 dollars.

I also considered getting the Xbox Elite 2 Controller, but it didn't have gyro support and most people agree that they're even worse in terms of reliability than the Dualsense. Sure, they have good warranty options, but I'd expect a thing that costs fucking 150 dollars to last more than 3 months without some piece failing.

 

[ferratilis]

I'm going to perform an act of necromancy to continue talking about my controller woes. I have an XBOX One controller, a wireless one that works via bluetooth. The "down" command on the d pad is double clickling from time to time which makes me feel I should get another one. I'm thinking of just sticking with this one (it's a negligible issue after all) but I've been looking at some controllers. The Xbox ones have triplicated their price since 2019, holy shit. Even the PowerA ones are expensive, and they actually cost more than what I paid for the original controller I own. The Logitech 310 seems nice but the dead zones make me worry a bit. I'm eyeing a few other, cheaper controllers but build quality and dead zones seem to be shit for almost all of them. Pretty much everyone says anything that's not an xbox controller has shit sticks, and even with the glaring deadzones, the 310 seems to be the best option. So yeah. Any opinions?

It really doesn't make sense to buy F310 in this day and age, however cheap it may be. It's younger brother, F710, has even become a meme after that submarine fiasco. It's not only the deadzones, it's that controllers have advanced a lot in the decade since it was released. I'm currently using an Xbox Series controller because of its amazing D-pad, but wouldn't recommend people to buy one, because it will eventually develop stick drift.

What you should be aiming for is 8bitdo Ultimate, it's a complete package. If it's too expensive for you, it's better to wait until you can afford it, because it WILL last. And make sure to buy the Ultimate Bluetooth version, it's the most feature packed.

 

[FreshCorpse]

The Xbox ones have triplicated their price since 2019

They have gotten more expensive, sure, but tripled?? How? They're £50 in the UK, which is obviously a lot but were they ever £16.67?

Frankly I think there is nothing exceptional out there. All the controllers at the moment now have either stick drift issues (official Switch), radio compat issues (8bitdo - though not for me), battery longevity issues (Dual Shock 5) or basic quality issues.

IMO it was a big fucking mistake to when controllers changed to run off internal lithium batteries rather than supporting (rechargable, ie 1.3v) AA. It just turns them into yet another desposible, piece of shit electronics. "Next-gen" controller rumble is not lifechanging, it is a fucking gimmick.

I mainly use one of the current generation of xbox controllers. I use normal rechargables for it, their lifespan is ok if the game isn't using rumble too much. I paid extra for the stupid dongle which is an alternate radio chipset that allows the controller it to use it's own proprietary 2.4ghz protocol rather than Bluetooth 4 (the last version of bluetooth before they finally sorted range and interference) - that reduces radio interference for me (there are baby monitors in my house) and also makes the 3.5mm jack on the controller work.

I also have an 8bitdo pro 2, which I use for my switch and any PC Japanese games where OK/Cancel are reversed (helps my brain remember). ie emulation. It runs over Bluetooth 5. This 8bitdo takes AA - the one ferratilis mentions does not - but comes with an optional 2xAA lithium format battery pack which is an ok compromise I suppose. Why did 8bitdo stop doing that?

I have a DS5 controller as well but the battery life is so short that it's tied to the dock and the PS5 and I wouldn't bother bringing it upstairs to use it on the PC. It lasts 5 hours on a full charge: no recommendo, friendo.

 

[beardalaxy]

IMO it was a big fucking mistake to when controllers changed to run off internal lithium batteries rather than supporting (rechargable, ie 1.3v) AA. It just turns them into yet another desposible, piece of shit electronics.

You can just replace the battery yourself. It's only a disposable item if you don't know how to open a controller and replace a battery, which is extremely easy. They're not expensive to replace, either. It would be different if a controller had the battery soldered into it or something like that, but it's just a simple plug. I haven't needed to replace any of my DualShock ones yet, but I have taken them out for cleaning purposes. Even Joycons have super easily replaceable batteries. The main complaint I've seen with AA versus internal batteries is that you can't simply swap out the battery when they die, you have to charge it, which could break a gaming session. Personally, I don't see that as much of an issue because I don't play for longer than 5 hours at a time, but if you're doing long marathons and don't want to be tethered for any part of it then I'm sure batteries you can swap out would be nice to have.

Just be aware that if you want full functionality, including the gyro and the touchpad AFAIK, you must play in wired mode (hence my bitching about microUSB) or buy Sony's proprietary USB adapter for 80 dollars.

You can use gyro and the touchpad over wireless. I think if you want to use the headphone jack, that's when you need it to be wired and it can only be the newer version with the lightbar on the touchpad, the one they started selling with the release of the PS4 Pro. I used gyro aim in Doom 2016 with a wireless pad and the touchpad in Witcher 3, and I only remember that it was wireless for both of them because I was sitting on my couch and don't have a long enough cable. Both even work wirelessly on the Switch using the Mission Control homebrew, which is how I've been playing Tears of the Kingdom exclusively, so it would be very strange if they didn't work wirelessly on a PC. The DualSense might be a different story, as I know people have been having issues with them for Rift Apart on PC when they're using them wireless.

 

[FreshCorpse]

IMO it was a big fucking mistake to when controllers changed to run off internal lithium batteries rather than supporting (rechargable, ie 1.3v) AA. It just turns them into yet another desposible, piece of shit electronics.

You can just replace the battery yourself. It's only a disposable item if you don't know how to open a controller and replace a battery, which is extremely easy. They're not expensive to replace, either. It would be different if a controller had the battery soldered into it or something like that, but it's just a simple plug. I haven't needed to replace any of my DualShock ones yet, but I have taken them out for cleaning purposes. Even Joycons have super easily replaceable batteries. The main complaint I've seen with AA versus internal batteries is that you can't simply swap out the battery when they die, you have to charge it, which could break a gaming session. Personally, I don't see that as much of an issue because I don't play for longer than 5 hours at a time, but if you're doing long marathons and don't want to be tethered for any part of it then I'm sure batteries you can swap out would be nice to have.

I was pleasantly surprised to look this up and find out that actually it's not so bad. Cool beans.

However unless I am mistaken this process does not appear in the manual of the device so most people aren't aware that it's de facto user serviceable.