What did New Vegas DO WRONG? / Would isometric New Vegas with finished content be GOAT?

[Sigourn]

Would you prefer if it had 3d areas but overland travel map with special encounters like the FOs and WL2? Like how Shroud of the Avatar does it map travel but 3d areas?

I'm not familiar with Shroud of the Avatar, but Final Fantasy XII kind of did what I'm talking about and I really liked it. I'm not interested in complete open world map because, at the end of the day, it becomes boring to pass through the same location for the hundredth time and you just end up using fast travelling, which IMO cheapens the experience as you completely skip all possible encounters you may have found otherwise.

To be 100% honest, however, I like the idea of a closer to classic Fallout that is easily moddable so that people can make their own stories and so on. First person 3D invariably introduces voice acting which can break that type of mods easily.

 

[Great Deceiver]

The only Bethesda game that did open world travel decently was Morrowind - you could fast travel but it took some consideration, and the transportation system was well thought out. Instant, no-cost teleportation is always, always bad.

Obsidian should have expanded on the monorail system and ditched the insta click-go shit. Even finding a rare experimental self-teleportation device somewhere like REPCONN with limited uses and to limited areas would work fine.

 

[laclongquan]

Somebody! Please port Fallout 2 to Fallout New Vegas! Please fuck with these whiners some more!

 

[Turisas]

You couldn't romance Fisto.

 

[undecaf]

Somebody! Please port Fallout 2 to Fallout New Vegas! Please fuck with these whiners some more!

An Obsidian dev once (some time ago) joked about porting New Vegas to Wasteland 2 engine.

That'd be something.

 

[Sigourn]

The only Bethesda game that did open world travel decently was Morrowind - you could fast travel but it took some consideration, and the transportation system was well thought out. Instant, no-cost teleportation is always, always bad.

Obsidian should have expanded on the monorail system and ditched the insta click-go shit. Even finding a rare experimental self-teleportation device somewhere like REPCONN with limited uses and to limited areas would work fine.

Now that I think about it, I think it has to do a lot with the progression system of each game.

Morrowind relied on the player using his skills. New Vegas lies on the player completing quests. So while in Morrowind walking from place to place is never a waste of time, in New Vegas it is: once you have been through a location, there's no reason to go back. Especially because it takes a while for enemies to respawn, and the exp they give is not particularly significant.

I still believe Morrowind's system is much better than New Vegas (and all of Fallout, really): skill should raise as you use them, not by amagical level up. BTB's Game Improvements for Morrowind showed the system is good and only needed to be stricter: Misc skills no longer grow up naturally, Minor skill grow up extremely slow, and Major skills grow up slow. Add some sort of "your skill can only raise X times in a single day" and you have an anti-spam recipe.

 

[Sigourn]

The more I play Fallout 2 (and overall, my experience with the classics) the less doubts I have Fallout: New Vegas is the greatest Fallout game ever made, by far.

The classics are so flawed in so many ways it just isn't funny. Many technical and gameplay flaws that are so annoying they ruin the experience:

- Inability to open the main menu when enemies are attacking you. This means that you have to potentially wait for 10 very slow turns before you can reload.
- The genius decision to have the health meter go down NEGATIVE values when you are killed, because apparently that is somehow useful for the player and totally not annoying. Plus you can't open the main menu as you are dying, which means you have no option but to weight.
- Companion AI that is extremely retarded and gets killed in the worst ways. Marcus, for example, decided it was a brilliant idea to get extremely close to a turret in the Sierra Army Depot.
- Isometric camera is shit as implemented, plain and simple. If the terrain isn't blocking your view, then it's the NPCs and your companions. I'm playing with the Unofficial Patch and sfall, and the latter allows the player to highlight things on the ground. Extremely useful, because you can't see SHIT on this game.
- Companions that stand in the fucking way. The "push" button isn't a solution, it's a bandaid on a problem that has been solved. You shouldn't need to use the "push" button: companions simply shouldn't get in places that block you from leaving.
- Companions acting on their own as opposed to acting on your orders, which leads to them being retards as usual. I suppose there's no such thing as "barking orders" in real life. The Combat Control menu is barely useful. Wasteland 2 solved this by making companions follow your orders, though they would go rogue from time to time.
- Cumbersome interface. Items are lined up on a column (why?) and trading with your companions is annoying as hell as you have to go through unnecessary options. No weight unit present on items, so you have to right click on them, select the binoculars icon, and only then do you see how much do they weight.
- The stupid hexagonal grid.
- No option to toggle the grid on/off for easier calculation.
- Dialogue barks that usually step onto each other. (Minor complaint, but still annoying)
- In the case of Fallout 2, the well known excessive use of pop culture references. SOME of them are funny, like King Arthur's Knights, but like most of these you HAVE to understand the reference or else they are simply nonsensical. Funny or not, they also took me out of immersion completely.
- Again, in the case of Fallout 2, le wacky quests (Coffin Willie, Lenny, Anna's Ghost, becoming a porn star, among others).
- Fallout 2 overall is a worse game than Fallout because it barely improved on it and it dropped the ball on a lot of things. It was also a precursor of the Bethesda meme of adding lots of pointless items into the game for no reason (loaded dice, dice, cards, marked cards, condoms (useful in one quest only IIRC), flower, and other crap).

So yeah. Fallout: New Vegas remade in the style of Wasteland 2 (but with the polish of Pillars of Eternity/Tyranny when it comes to gameplay and graphics), with expanded and finished content, would be the GOAT Fallout without a shadow of a doubt.

It already is the GOAT with JSawyer's mod, but I guess some assholes need isometric in their lives to like Fallout. So the accurate chart is:

Fallout: New Vegas (JSawyer's mod) >>> Fallout >>> Fallout 2

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Dammit lucas, you hated Gothic at first too.

 

[Sigourn]

Dammit lucas, you hated Gothic at first too.

I disliked Gothic's controls, but I always liked the game itself. I've already played through Fallout and I'm well on my journey on Fallout 2 (need to go to Navarro to progress the story). Unlike Gothic's controls, though, all this clunkyness and problems don't serve any purpose in Fallout. At least those controls were necessary for the type of combat and character progression Gothic wanted...

 

[ilitarist]

Amen about Gothic. Played Risen last year and had a blast. Completed Gothic 2 long time ago when it came out, tried Gothic 1 and can't get around those damned controls.

Fallout 1 & 2, on the other hand, are perfectly playable today. And Steam has integrated widescreen mod which is really all that you need.

 

[undecaf]

I can't play New Vegas anymore more than 10 minutes at a time. The minute to minute gameplay just doesn't stand for it anymore after two runthroughs. It's a shame too, I had hoped I could still make the NCR run and possibly the independent one too at some point.

 

[YES!]

The more I play Fallout 2 (and overall, my experience with the classics) the less doubts I have Fallout: New Vegas is the greatest Fallout game ever made, by far.

The classics are so flawed in so many ways it just isn't funny. Many technical and gameplay flaws that are so annoying they ruin the experience:

- Inability to open the main menu when enemies are attacking you. This means that you have to potentially wait for 10 very slow turns before you can reload.
- The genius decision to have the health meter go down NEGATIVE values when you are killed, because apparently that is somehow useful for the player and totally not annoying. Plus you can't open the main menu as you are dying, which means you have no option but to weight.
- Companion AI that is extremely retarded and gets killed in the worst ways. Marcus, for example, decided it was a brilliant idea to get extremely close to a turret in the Sierra Army Depot.
- Isometric camera is shit as implemented, plain and simple. If the terrain isn't blocking your view, then it's the NPCs and your companions. I'm playing with the Unofficial Patch and sfall, and the latter allows the player to highlight things on the ground. Extremely useful, because you can't see SHIT on this game.
- Companions that stand in the fucking way. The "push" button isn't a solution, it's a bandaid on a problem that has been solved. You shouldn't need to use the "push" button: companions simply shouldn't get in places that block you from leaving.
- Companions acting on their own as opposed to acting on your orders, which leads to them being retards as usual. I suppose there's no such thing as "barking orders" in real life. The Combat Control menu is barely useful. Wasteland 2 solved this by making companions follow your orders, though they would go rogue from time to time.
- Cumbersome interface. Items are lined up on a column (why?) and trading with your companions is annoying as hell as you have to go through unnecessary options. No weight unit present on items, so you have to right click on them, select the binoculars icon, and only then do you see how much do they weight.
- The stupid hexagonal grid.
- No option to toggle the grid on/off for easier calculation.
- Dialogue barks that usually step onto each other. (Minor complaint, but still annoying)
- In the case of Fallout 2, the well known excessive use of pop culture references. SOME of them are funny, like King Arthur's Knights, but like most of these you HAVE to understand the reference or else they are simply nonsensical. Funny or not, they also took me out of immersion completely.
- Again, in the case of Fallout 2, le wacky quests (Coffin Willie, Lenny, Anna's Ghost, becoming a porn star, among others).
- Fallout 2 overall is a worse game than Fallout because it barely improved on it and it dropped the ball on a lot of things. It was also a precursor of the Bethesda meme of adding lots of pointless items into the game for no reason (loaded dice, dice, cards, marked cards, condoms (useful in one quest only IIRC), flower, and other crap).

So yeah. Fallout: New Vegas remade in the style of Wasteland 2 (but with the polish of Pillars of Eternity/Tyranny when it comes to gameplay and graphics), with expanded and finished content, would be the GOAT Fallout without a shadow of a doubt.

It already is the GOAT with JSawyer's mod, but I guess some assholes need isometric in their lives to like Fallout. So the accurate chart is:

Fallout: New Vegas (JSawyer's mod) >>> Fallout >>> Fallout 2

You're a smart guy and far more reasonable and thoughtful than the vast majority of the people here your age or older so I know you have to know your complaints are very disingenuous.

The controls and UI of FO 1 and 2 were fucking awesome for the time in which it was released. Also, the patches that make it play well on modern systems and fix bugs allow you to quicksave and quickload. You can quickload during the enemy's turn.

FO 1 and 2 were some of the first games that let you click on things hidden by other things. When I was younger we had a commodore that had some okay rpgs or semi-sort of pre-rpgs like zork. The NES got some okay crpg ports like Wizardry and U4, etc. I bought my first PC ( a 386) as a kid when Quest for Glory 1 was new and still Hero's Quest. A lot of the rpgs then, the goldbox engine games especially jump to mind, had a ton of the game's story content in manual form. You get to a story point and what was going on and said was not in the game, you had to go to the manual and read it. All UIs then were so bad it is hard for me to play some of my favorite games. Bad like the UI in FO 3 and FO NV.

IN FO3 and FONV you get a ton of loot and navigating through the menus to put on a new piece of gear was usually more time consuming and more of a hassle that I didn't bother equipping upgrades unless I had a three or more items to change. It takes far less effort to change items in some of the worst examples of early crpgs. And playing some of the ports of console games with shit console UIs like Elminage Gothic the item equipping and swapping is still just as bad now as it was in the 80s.

WL2 is a great example of a great UI with all the functionality you could want. FONV is the perfect example of awful 80s pc UI. You can rebind almost nothing, everything takes a million clicks to do, and it sucks in every way and is made completely for shitty controllers for retarded people.

With the FO 1 and 2 main fan patches you can rebind almost everything and do most common functions easily. Sure, you can't do it in game and have to do it through the .dll or whatever that file is called but that is nothing compared to spending literally days fucking with xms and all the shit you needed to fuck around with to make a boot disk to make games work back in the day. I'm not kidding either. It often took days. And it took a very long time shut down and reboot then too. And computers were very loud. The disks. The duh-duh-duh-duh-DAH...duh-duh-duh-duh-DOH over and over is burning into my mind for ever and linked to pain in the ass boot disks. Its like shooting weapons. Sometimes I get invited to a shooting range but I can't go because shooting weapons is linked in my head with endless horrible hours of cleaning weapons. The smell of CLP sickens me. Q-tips and dental tools scrapping baked on carbon off. A chunk of my life was wasted in the horrible act of cleaning my weapon. And I was a 60 and 240b gunner or on a gun team for most of my time pre-nco and they built up carbon in the most pain in the ass takes forever to clean way possible.

I get that same mental link of boot disks playing a shitty UI Bethesda game and FONV as I do when I play Buck Rogers with it's horrible Bethesda like UI. I honestly can't understand how you could criticize FO 1 and 2's UI and functionality when playing them vanilla without the fan function and bug patches when it is clearly far superior to FONVs savage 1980's console UI. With the patches the functionality is far greater, user friendly, and customizable than FONVs. Its like night and day.

I agree WL2 DC's with FONV content would be great. I thought WL2 DC is an amazing rpg with great systems and content and a great UI. I don't know what the JSawyer patch is but I think FONV is a decent game modded with what I think is called the Nevada mod. I forget. I talked about it a couple times though. The UI mods do shit to make it better. Font is a small issue compared to needing to go through 80 menus and scrolling through tons of shit and making something that should be simple a huge hassle. No paper dolls. No drag and drop. No real inventory system and just a savage list like from caveman times. Shit. Pure shit. No rebinds. It is the prefect example of how to make the worst UI imaginable for playing civilized on a PC. WL2 has the opposite and is like a masterclass on how to make the perfect UI for civilized adult crpg players.

Lastly, you can't really prefer a square grid over hexagonal can you? I think the no grid system from ToEE or the faux grid system from WL2 is superior than hexagonal, but at the time there were two choices, and square grid usually meant no diagonal actions and was only popular with console shit kid games with lite rpg elements.

 

[YES!]

Also, in my opinion, the far, far, far worst aspect of some of my favorite games is the ability to save and reload in combat. That makes combat suck in every single game that has it besides the new XCOMs mainly due to the seed system requiring you to do something different instead of reloading until a good result of the same action. FO 1 and 2 would have both been far better games with no combat saving.

Also, almost all the loot you get in FONV is junk for selling too (or repairing). I don't see the difference between no function but selling loot and serves no real function besides selling loot.

 

[Sigourn]

You're a smart guy and far more reasonable and thoughtful than the vast majority of the people here your age or older so I know you have to know your complaints are very disingenuous.

Thanks for the compliment (I suppose).

The controls and UI of FO 1 and 2 were fucking awesome for the time in which it was released.

I mean, I'm not saying they weren't (though I wouldn't know). But there are some serious flaws that the devs should have noticed right away. It's pretty much the same with New Vegas and its interface. I don't think it was a matter of "limitations", because the existing "right click" menu is pretty much what I would have wanted to see for other types of interactions (mostly trading).

IN FO3 and FONV you get a ton of loot and navigating through the menus to put on a new piece of gear was usually more time consuming and more of a hassle that I didn't bother equipping upgrades unless I had a three or more items to change.

Is it, though? In New Vegas, you open the Pip-Boy (like in Fallout and Fallout 2), select the armor tab (of which there aren't any in the classics, meaning you have to scroll through junk items), and select your piece of apparel. Granted, if you were one of those autist players that grab everyting they can, it could get cluttered. But nowhere near as much as the FO1 and FO2 interfaces.

WL2 is a great example of a great UI with all the functionality you could want.

I have to disagree... I thought WL2's UI was very shitty, made even more retarded because of its barter controls. IIRC double clicking an item meant you would sell it instantly which was awful. And what's more, I think there was no actual "bartering" in that game, only "selling" and "buying".

I honestly can't understand how you could criticize FO 1 and 2's UI and functionality when playing them vanilla without the fan function and bug patches when it is clearly far superior to FONVs savage 1980's console UI. With the patches the functionality is far greater, user friendly, and customizable than FONVs. Its like night and day.

I don't know if we are even playing the same games. In New Vegas, if I want to trade with my companion, it is literally "E", "trade", and do the trading (which is clicking on the stuff I want and nothing more), and finally exit and go back to the main game. In Fallout 2, I have to click on them, which opens a slow interface, select trading, which opens another slow interface. Select "trade" whenever I want to exchange stuff with them. Then stop trading, which brings me back to the talk menu. And only then I can leave.

New Vegas' UI is not perfect, but when it comes to the inventory itself it is far better than FO1's and FO2's, which is funny because there's far more crap to pick up in the 3D games than in the classics.

Lastly, you can't really prefer a square grid over hexagonal can you?

Why not? Just make it so we can attack diagonally, like in chess. I find it very annoying to zig-zag my way through locations.

EDIT:

I agree that saving and reloading in combat sucks... then again, combat in FO1 and FO2 is AWFUL because of critical hits. Which means you can be tanking attacks like a pro in Power Armor, only for a lucky critical to 1HKO your character. That isn't my idea of fun, which is why I quicksave and quickload constantly.

 

[YES!]

Is it, though? In New Vegas, you open the Pip-Boy (like in Fallout and Fallout 2), select the armor tab (of which there aren't any in the classics, meaning you have to scroll through junk items), and select your piece of apparel. Granted, if you were one of those autist players that grab everyting they can, it could get cluttered. But nowhere near as much as the FO1 and FO2 interfaces.

Except you can't rebind the key to open the inventory. My muscle memory is set in from being able to rebind keys in games for almost 20 years. I hit I and nothing. Get a headache from remembering the savageness of the system and the filthy console monkey animals making it so I have to bear this bullshit like I did in the 80s. After hitting b and other keys I may remember what savage key those fucking retarded animals decided brings up something. And it usually isn't the inventory, so I have to bring the mouse up to the top of the screen to scroll to the inventory like its the 90s now. The I have to go through a long list of shit to get to the first item I want to change, which isn't apparent since even though I am scrolling through a savage caveman type list that predates the invention of the wheel and I am living in 1000000000000 BC instead of the second fucking decade of the 21st century AD when we have the fucking technology to make real inventories with pictures and shit and mouse overs with more than retard level information. And then I have to repeat this savageness to equip the second and third thing, all which have a very minor impact on my character or performance because the itemization is almost as savage and non-rpg as the list inventory for consoles from a million BC and the 80s.

Honestly, I assure you the real FOs had great UIs for the time. Dark Sun was probably the only game I can think of with a UI that wasn't a huge pain in the ass prior to FO and also had decent functionality.

I'm in my early 40s and all I want is a functional UI like in WL2. I tell it what button opens the inventory and it opens to a real rpg inventory that is easy to see what I have in a civilized manner with pictures and shit and good mouse over information and hotkeys for actions since it isn't a shitty console game that doesn't have actions because actions confuse retarded console players and they can only handle shoot and zoom or fast attack and strong attack. I know what key is stealth because I set it and it wasn't dictated to me and made a key I'llnever remember because savages rule the world and have my hostage with tyranny of the masses and there shit taste and console retardation savageness.

Its fucking 2017. I tell the computer what key does what. There isn't some savage caveman list saying ooga booga and fire good and what the fuck is a wheel? Civilized games with civilized UIs and real rpg inventories and mechanics and hotbars and rebindable keys - you know, civilized. For civilized people who have too much going on at work and a cunt wife and little kids and no desire to try and reinvent the wheel and figure out what savages decided his fucking stealth key should be for this savage console game.

Also, WL2 did have a bartering skill.

 

[undecaf]

Also, WL2 did have a bartering skill.

It did. But I think he meant that InXile got rid of the bartering interface and mechanic (that was there before the DC edition) that was similiar to Fallout where you did actual bartering with the items and replaced it with doubleclick to buy/sell.

 

[YES!]

Also, WL2 did have a bartering skill.

It did. But I think he meant that InXile got rid of the bartering interface and mechanic (that was there before the DC edition) that was similiar to Fallout where you did actual bartering with the items and replaced it with doubleclick to buy/sell.

Thank you for the explanation. I honestly didn't notice. That seems kind of minor compared to having a UI straight from the 80s. But I can't hate list inventories as much as I do and be hypocritical enough to say hating different trade systems that end with the same exact effect is minor since that exact argument can also be made against me too. I have to add my seems less of a belles-lettres type of thing, but of course it would since it is mine.

But, I guess I never answered the main question of this thread - I think FONV would be a far, far better game done in the WL2 DC engine with it's mechanics and systems including the overworld map travel. One huge map would suck as much in the new engine as the old to me.

 

[Black Angel]

Nah, I can't play New Vegas without at least installing multiple mods, checking for compatibility and if it works properly and in order, and even then it's still prone to bugs and crash. Not to mention long ass loading screen.

Meanwhile, Fallout 1 & 2 only need ONE (1!) !!!!111!!!1!1! mod (Fixt for 1, Restoration Project for 2, that's it), and you're good to go. No need to check for compatibility, load order, and all that shit. The only extra thing to do after installing the mod is probably tweaking some of the .ini files to get the best look and resolution out of the game, and.... that's it. Loading screen is absolute minimum I've personally ever found in video games (it's so fucking fast, which is why I have no trouble replaying the games over and over and over again).

 

[undecaf]

That seems kind of minor compared to having a UI straight from the 80s.

It is with that comparison. It does streamline the act of making the transaction, though, when you can't offer an item for another (regardless of the compared values). I think that makes buying/selling stuff feel arcadey and uninteresting with the context in mind. It's a bit of a tangent to the topic, but nonetheless, even New Vegas with its quite awful shoppinglist interface had that mechanic (without haggling, though).

 

[laclongquan]

The more I play Fallout 2 (and overall, my experience with the classics) the less doubts I have Fallout: New Vegas is the greatest Fallout game ever made, by far.

The classics are so flawed in so many ways it just isn't funny. Many technical and gameplay flaws that are so annoying they ruin the experience:

- Inability to open the main menu when enemies are attacking you. This means that you have to potentially wait for 10 very slow turns before you can reload.

The only reason you need to open menu during that time is for a reload. In that case, AltF4 or CtrlAltDel to restart the game entirely is quick and painless.

- The genius decision to have the health meter go down NEGATIVE values when you are killed, because apparently that is somehow useful for the player and totally not annoying. Plus you can't open the main menu as you are dying, which means you have no option but to weight.
- Companion AI that is extremely retarded and gets killed in the worst ways. Marcus, for example, decided it was a brilliant idea to get extremely close to a turret in the Sierra Army Depot.

You are so very late to this party, really. And the thing you complain is the reason why people dont let AI control their NPC. IT's Fallout 2 in 1999, not 2017. It's an experimental phase of the game industry and people try all the shits just for the sake of experimenting.

- Isometric camera is shit as implemented, plain and simple. If the terrain isn't blocking your view, then it's the NPCs and your companions. I'm playing with the Unofficial Patch and sfall, and the latter allows the player to highlight things on the ground. Extremely useful, because you can't see SHIT on this game.

Again, very late to the party, and again, it's a 1999 game, bitch. At that time if they implement highlight shits on the ground it would bring the fucking gaming rig to the ground. It's 8MB RAM and maybe 1MB graphic card if not integrated. It's the time when hunting pixel is a valid game play element. Remember BG1's 1st ring of wizardry? Yeah, that.

- Companions that stand in the fucking way. The "push" button isn't a solution, it's a bandaid on a problem that has been solved. You shouldn't need to use the "push" button: companions simply shouldn't get in places that block you from leaving.
- Companions acting on their own as opposed to acting on your orders, which leads to them being retards as usual. I suppose there's no such thing as "barking orders" in real life. The Combat Control menu is barely useful. Wasteland 2 solved this by making companions follow your orders, though they would go rogue from time to time.

LATE.TO.THE.PARTY. They are the reason why later game use fully controllable NPC and not let AI run free. And F2 is so much better than F1 in that aspect. F1's bitches just silently block my way or empty a clip onto my back.

- Cumbersome interface. Items are lined up on a column (why?) and trading with your companions is annoying as hell as you have to go through unnecessary options. No weight unit present on items, so you have to right click on them, select the binoculars icon, and only then do you see how much do they weight.

Again, it's the early phase of game development.

- The stupid hexagonal grid.
- No option to toggle the grid on/off for easier calculation.

I dont like grid myself but around here there's a lot of weirdo like grids, so mind your manner if you dont want to get a clue bat to the face.

- Dialogue barks that usually step onto each other. (Minor complaint, but still annoying)
- In the case of Fallout 2, the well known excessive use of pop culture references. SOME of them are funny, like King Arthur's Knights, but like most of these you HAVE to understand the reference or else they are simply nonsensical. Funny or not, they also took me out of immersion completely.

In that case, your taste sucks. Sorry to break it you, buddy. I am not a guy who sprout refs all the time but I am not out of immershun just because of that, either

- Again, in the case of Fallout 2, le wacky quests (Coffin Willie, Lenny, Anna's Ghost, becoming a porn star, among others).

Again, your taste sucks. But to be fair, it's experimental phase and F2 is a breakaway from teh grim dark theme of F1

- Fallout 2 overall is a worse game than Fallout because it barely improved on it and it dropped the ball on a lot of things. It was also a precursor of the Bethesda meme of adding lots of pointless items into the game for no reason (loaded dice, dice, cards, marked cards, condoms (useful in one quest only IIRC), flower, and other crap).

Let me repeat. Your taste sucks. Fallout 2 is better than F1 anyday of the week. As for Bethesda it's their Morrowind days which is the peak of their gameplay development (not story because Beth story is always suck).

Plane ticket, biatch! But you pay, not me.

 

[YES!]

Nah, I can't play New Vegas without at least installing multiple mods, checking for compatibility and if it works properly and in order, and even then it's still prone to bugs and crash. Not to mention long ass loading screen.

Meanwhile, Fallout 1 & 2 only need ONE (1!) !!!!111!!!1!1! mod (Fixt for 1, Restoration Project for 2, that's it), and you're good to go. No need to check for compatibility, load order, and all that shit. The only extra thing to do after installing the mod is probably tweaking some of the .ini files to get the best look and resolution out of the game, and.... that's it. Loading screen is absolute minimum I've personally ever found in video games (it's so fucking fast, which is why I have no trouble replaying the games over and over and over again).

I agree but with the big Nevada overhaul mod you don't need a lot of mods. Just that and the UI mod and the extender thing. What bothers me is I think FO 1 has a highlight interactables key and FO 2 doesn't (with the patches you named). Highlighting is great and pixel hunting is something I hate.

I think that makes buying/selling stuff feel arcadey and uninteresting with the context in mind.

I see what you are saying and agree. With a barter system there is the appearance of actual trading, like with a real inventory there is the appearance of a real inventory and not a fucking list. I never thought about it but the double click to buy/sell is very arcadey and definitely console focused. I think bartering is definitely the superior way and the better rpg way.

I stand corrected and will add shit savage shop UI to my list of things to hate and complain about.

 

[YES!]

You are so very late to this party, really. And the thing you complain is the reason why people dont let AI control their NPC. IT's Fallout 2 in 1999, not 2017. It's an experimental phase of the game industry and people try all the shits just for the sake of experimenting.

Except he kept it for Arcanum and it seems to be something he really likes or considers to be better for rpgs. I can't disagree in the abstract. It clearly is how it should be in an rpg. But since I love good combat that is challenging and the more chardev I control the better I prefer me controlling everything possible. Out of all the ways he loves to do things I cannot disagree with his seeming philosophy on anything besides one item - saving during combat. With this I fully disagree with him. On anything else, I know he is an rpg genius and the greatest man to make games and can reason out his correct thinking on doing everything. And he is right about everything too.

Fallout 2 is better than F1 anyday of the week.

I agree but usually I am the only person to like 2 more than 1. It could be because I played 2 first and being a pimp, staring in a porno, becoming a boxer, or skipping all that shit was mind blowing to me at the time. I never played anything even close to that level of crazy shit you could do, or not do. You could do a lot of shit in Darklands, and Dark Sun let you complete tasks in different ways, but FO 2 had a ton of weird shit to do town after town and it was all different and fucking nuts. I thought the sex in Golgo 13 was cutting edge and then a game where you are a pimp and a porn star? But in a classy and not very significant way? That's how its done.

 

[laclongquan]

Fallout 1 main theme is grim dark post-apocalypse while F2 is light hearted PA. The difference is that F2 is 70 years after the Great Mutant War, so it's in Recovery Period already for fuck's sake. If it's still grim dark it would be boring.

I always have trouble staying focus in F1, mostly because of that type of theme. Grimdark is in direct conflict with the very basis of Fallout theme, which is the 50s retro look of a would-be future. I find that conflict distracting me to sleep, while the light heartness of F2 fit it more.

 

[ilitarist]

To me lightheartedness seemed alien to Fallout. I disliked Fallout 2 for that reason: it only shined in abandoned military bases and horrible slums.

I even liked initial Fallout 3 atmosphere, outside of all those goofy things like city of children and Nuka Cola collectors. Goofiness like giant anti-communist robot or ever joyful radio DJ seemed more suitable because it was a mad, caricature kind of goofiness, part of what makes the world dark and horrifying. Of course it's all tainted by the fact that people are simultaniously on the brink of extinction and care about robot rights or can survive alone in a middle of the wasteland for years like that violin lady.

 

[laclongquan]

That mean, boyo, you like grimdark. Nothing wrong with that because to each its own, and whatever float your boat.

That, however, doesnt mean you can ignore the conflict between the grimdarkness and the retro looks of 50s onto a future world. The very concept is goofy in the first place.