What do you think about AoD?

[Esquilax]

When the games will be inspired by AoD it will the end! The end I tell you!!!

Yes, because a game can be more than the sum of its parts. The problem with AoD is the cold, design-doc feel that Serious_Business described. Let's take a well-loved game around here as an example: Bloodlines. If you were to explain the game to me, well, a lot of it would seem pretty crappy. It's got a really bad stealth system (Fallout 3 is better), terrible AI, it's buggy as fuck, the melee combat is awful, it's piss-easy, and the level design is lackluster. Well, the game still manages to have such a sense of atmosphere and such a unique sense of mystery to it that you can't deny that it has a certain charm to it. There's a love and passion there that's easy to see.

Games like Thief also accomplished this. Yeah, you could see that the LGS guys had a superb game on paper that was very innovative, but the mood, the mystery, the ambience, the atmosphere and the sheer wonder that the game evoked in me elevated it far beyond its mechanics that were awesome to begin with.

On the other hand, when asking for feedback, which is what it seemed (to me) what this thread was originally for, you'll want to invite as much of it as possible. That's because you'll collect all of it and go over it later, registering what's useful and disposing of what isn't.

Maybe it's in VD's nature to discuss when he feels a poster's arguments are wrong or his approach to the game was incorrect and if that's his thing, I'm just commenting on it. Myself, I don't see much point in trying to convince people that didn't enjoy the game because they feel its design didn't match their expectations that they should because the design is good in itself - people are going to like it or they won't, and probably not based on any objective criteria but rather a subjective "this system appeals to me or not".

I don't quite understand it either. You can't argue someone into liking something. Either you feel it or you don't.

It's little things like that that AoD is missing, IMO. Something isn't 'logical' so because it's not 'realistic' it shouldn't be in the game. "Oh, well, we shouldn't have any filler dialogue or conversations with important people because it's a false choice and it wastes the player's time" seems like a minor thing and sounds OK on paper but it really prevents you from digging deep and getting emotionally invested and lost in the game.

 

[Cassidy]

The game just *feels* cold. It's not something I can point out specifically. It just feels loveless. System Shock and Fallout and blabla, Darklands, RoA and even Baldur's Gate 2 feel much... warmer. There's love in there. There's love in AoD as well, but the love you put into it comes from a cold and disappointed heart.

One of the best qualities a game can have - no matter what genre, no matter what system - is to evoke the feeling that this was someone's passion; that someone poured themselves into making this. It can't be quantified- but when it's not there it feels like there is something missing. As if the game was sterile and empty; there's no heart, no blood, no soul.

Like CaptainShrek unwittingly agreed: it's a skeleton. It's cold and there's no meat on these bones. But maybe something can be built on that backbone.

In other words, are you saying there is a lack of emotional engagement? AoD has many problems but "that" is definitively not one of them. Play Galactic Civilizations II and you'll see what a "soulless" game is about, and AoD is definitively not it, unless the grimdark and unforgiving setting has hurt your sensibilities...



I find it a funny coincidence that many who are making the strongest criticisms and posting most negative comments on AoD(which indeed has its flaws) are also those most willing to slurp the latest popamole shit, like Skyrimjob and Diablo III, upon which they spent hundreds of hours playing(according to Steam statistics from the Codex Steam Group), and in some cases even made a herculean effort to defend Skyrim and the other pieces of shit against solid criticisms.

AoD is already at such a stage of development I doubt much could be done to change what it is, anyway.

Bloodlines. If you were to explain the game to me, well, a lot of it would seem pretty crappy. It's got a really bad stealth system (Fallout 3 is better), terrible AI, it's buggy as fuck, the melee combat is awful, it's piss-easy, and the level design is lackluster. Well, the game still manages to have such a sense of atmosphere and such a unique sense of mystery to it that you can't deny that it has a certain charm to it. There's a love and passion there that's easy to see.

Are you saying AoD sucks because it lacks voice acting and comic relief NPCs?

 

[Grimlorn]

I get that the town kind of feels empty and there isn't a lot to do there, but Bloodlines is the same way imo. Just seems like there are more quests in that game. But the town is pretty empty with a lot of npcs just there to fill it in. I don't get the coldness people are talking about.

I wonder how many of you guys listened to the oldman/storyteller in the inn? Did that not fill in the blanks for the setting and stuff? I'm assuming we will explore those things and maybe even meet the "demons" or "Gods" that helped the Empire in the course of the game. That's what interests me. I'm sure some of the story is BS, but I'm curious to find out what actually happened and how much of the story he told is true.

VD are you going to be releasing a new demo anytime soon? Is there any plans for it?

 

[Jasede]

The game just *feels* cold. It's not something I can point out specifically. It just feels loveless. System Shock and Fallout and blabla, Darklands, RoA and even Baldur's Gate 2 feel much... warmer. There's love in there. There's love in AoD as well, but the love you put into it comes from a cold and disappointed heart.

One of the best qualities a game can have - no matter what genre, no matter what system - is to evoke the feeling that this was someone's passion; that someone poured themselves into making this. It can't be quantified- but when it's not there it feels like there is something missing. As if the game was sterile and empty; there's no heart, no blood, no soul.

Like CaptainShrek unwittingly agreed: it's a skeleton. It's cold and there's no meat on these bones. But maybe something can be built on that backbone.

In other words, are you saying there is a lack of emotional engagement? AoD has many problems but "that" is definitively not one of them. Play Galactic Civilizations II and you'll see what a "soulless" game is about, and AoD is definitively not it, unless the grimdark and unforgiving setting has hurt your sensibilities...



I find it a funny coincidence that many who are making the strongest criticisms and posting most negative comments on AoD(which indeed has its flaws) are also those most willing to slurp the latest popamole shit, like Skyrimjob and Diablo III, upon which they spent hundreds of hours playing(according to Steam statistics from the Codex Steam Group), and in some cases even made a herculean effort to defend Skyrim and the other pieces of shit against solid criticisms.

AoD is already at such a stage of development I doubt much could be done to change what it is, anyway.

Gal Civ 2 is definitely even colder; that game must have been made by vampires.
Also being reasonable != loving popamole. Why do you have to be so one-sided? Can't you accept that someone can like all these great old classics, yet still enjoy a modern decline game once in a while?

 

[Gord]

There sure is some stuff there if you but take your time to walk around a bit and listen to what the quest-givers and other NPCs have to tell you.
If you do that instead of teleporting everywhere you will discover some background lore and other things, inlcuding the few side quests.
(Although the availability of some of it depends on your character attributes/skills)

Also replaying the game with a different character gives you the possibility to discover the story from a very different angle.
This is something that's done quite well, imho.

 

[Excidium]

It's a game focused on C&C and from the little we could see at the demo it does that well. I find it lacking in some aspects, but the demo was fun to play (and re-play - that's the whole point of a C&C focused game) and in the end that's all that matters. So I'd say it's p. good if the rest of the game is like Teron.

 

[hiver]

Was it Serious business that said he enjoyed mass effect 3 so much that he had to leave codex because of it?
or something...

Well, at least if this imbecile calling himself Jack Burton hates it this much to make him this hilariously butthurt and even more stupid that he usually is... you can be sure its p. monocle refined gentlemen of taste - game.

 

[Kos_Koa]

VD: Codex, what do you think about AoD.
Codex: It's bad.
VD: Bad? Can you be more specific?
Codex: It's cold.



VD:...

 

[FeelTheRads]

VD: Codex, what do you think about AoD.
Codex: It's bad.
VD: Bad? Can you be more specific?
Codex: It's cold.

Yes, that's the only thing that was said about it. Bravo, you summed it up so well.

 

[Johannes]

And the first Codex answer should've been "It's meh.".

 

[Damned Registrations]

I pretty much lost interest back when it was moved onto a 3D engine (and presumably delayed an immense amount). Nothing I've seen about it since has reignited that initial interest. The screenshots and videos don't look appealing, and the reception has been mixed. I'd have tried it on release back when I was interested regardless of these things, but without that initial motivation I can't be arsed to try yet another game that might be good but doesn't seem special.

 

[hiver]

Was it Serious business that said he enjoyed mass effect 3 so much that he had to leave codex because of it?
or something...

Well, at least if this imbecile calling himself Jack Burton hates it this much to make him this hilariously butthurt and even more stupid that he usually is... you can be sure its p. monocle refined gentlemen of taste - game.

And this hiver idiot will troll anyone who says it's less that 9/10, even though most RPGs with million dollar budgets turn out less than 8/10.

i rest my case.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Pretty retarded argument, Jack Burton, I'm sorry to have to agree with vermin like hiver, but it is what it is.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't quite understand it either. You can't argue someone into liking something. Either you feel it or you don't.

I'm not asking anyone to like it and I've never argued with anyone who didn't.

Surely you've noticed that I replied only to a handful of people in this thread, ignoring pretty much all 'negative' posts. I didn't expect everyone to like the game and I'm well aware that some design decisions rubbed people the wrong way. I don't feel the need to ask Jack Burton why the game didn't grip him. It didn't. It's cool. It's his fucking business. Same goes for Serious Business whose posts I like very much and always read, and a bunch of other posters.

I've been on the Codex for almost 10 years. It's hard, if not impossible, to take someone's negative opinion of you/your posts/your game/games you like/etc personally, after being here for so long. So, when I ask what you think about AoD, I don't secretly hope to hear that everyone loves it or see an opportunity to convince the unbelievers. I'm merely curious. Without any emotional engagement.

 

[Grimlorn]

I don't quite understand it either. You can't argue someone into liking something. Either you feel it or you don't.

I'm not asking anyone to like it and I've never argued with anyone who didn't.

Surely you've noticed that I replied only to a handful of people in this thread, ignoring pretty much all 'negative' posts. I didn't expect everyone to like the game and I'm well aware that some design decisions rubbed people the wrong way. I don't feel the need to ask Jack Burton why the game didn't grip him. It didn't. It's cool. It's his fucking business. Same goes for Serious Business whose posts I like very much and always read, and a bunch of other posters.

I've been on the Codex for almost 10 years. It's hard, if not impossible, to take someone's negative opinion of you/your posts/your game/games you like/etc personally, after being here for so long. So, when I ask what you think about AoD, I don't secretly hope to hear that everyone loves it or see an opportunity to convince the unbelievers. I'm merely curious. Without any emotional engagement.

Maybe you missed my question. I was curious whether there were plans to update the beta or release another version. Been thinking about getting back into it but want to know whether you guys are still tweaking things in it or not.

Also, I know you answered my questions like 5 pages ago and I pretty much agree with everything you said, but thread was moving so fast and convo took a dumb turn afterward so I didn't want to bring it up again.

 

[hiver]

Age of decadence indeed. How fitting...

/

Grimlorn

Of course they are tweaking things.

 

[Grimlorn]

Age of decadence indeed. How fitting...

/

Grimlorn

Of course they are tweaking things.

Font size must be this big when you use my name.

Grimlorn

 

[hiver]

That first line wasnt for you. Font size is elected by a subroutine running the codex from the shadows.

 

[Grimlorn]

That first line wasnt for you. Font size is elected by a subroutine running the codex from the shadows.

hiver
I see. I knew what you meant, was just kidding about the font. I noticed it went larger for some reason.

 

[Ulminati]

Surely you've noticed that I replied only to a handful of people in this thread, ignoring pretty much all 'negative' posts.

If you don't want to reply to negative posts, why is the title "What do you think of AoD?" and not "Lavish praise upon my masterpiece here!"?


AoD suffers from uninteresting gameplay by design and all attempts to point out what people found lacking have been met with scorn and implications that people who dare complain are simply too stupid to grasp the game. Are you sure you're actually looking for feedback VD, or just to repeat your same arguments from your previous thread to troll the codex and rile up the few people who are more rabid about your game than a biodrone is about Heplers vagina?

My impression: It's not bad per se. Just meh. I forced myself to finish the demo as a few different professions. It's been a while now and honestly all that really stands out in my memory was:
1) The world is browner than Quake
2) Chracter protraits were pretty nice, but I kept hearing Feng talk to me in @Grunker's voice, which was hugely distracting
3) Combat was kinda meh. Full party control might help. Once you crack the one way and only way the game wants you to approach combat it becomes pretty managable, barring the odd "RNG fucked you over, reload" moments.
4) Teleporting sucks. You've already said your piece on this, but every time I teleport somewhere it's like listening to a song only to have the record skip to a differnt place. Sure, it'll get me to the guitar solo faster, but the flow is broken.
5) Teleporting people into combat and dumping them in a bad position is bullshit design.
6) The game could do with an honest to god, shit-easy combat tutorial with helpful tips and hints that people could play to get past the misconception that combat is hard
7) Saving up my skill points and then dumping a shitload into them just before I need to pass a check feels counterintuitive. People usually get better to things slowly over time - they don't have a sudden flash of brilliant insight the first time they need to pick a door.

Hm, that's pretty much all mechanics. Sorry, nothing about the story or setting stands out as terribly memorable. Post-apocalyptic Rome sounds cool in theory, but the end result felt really lifeless. And yes, I realize the blanket response to points 3-7 is "IT'S INTENDED TO WORK THAT FAY, FUCK OFF!". That's already been stated plenty of times when people post feedback in your feedback thread.

 

[Infinitron]

I would like to eventually see an analysis of AOD from a storytelling perspective (inb4 storyfag)

We've been focusing purely on the gameplay, which is and all, but story shouldn't be neglected entirely

After all, people may be nitpicking the gameplay excessively precisely because the world doesn't engage them and "smooth over the edges"

 

[Johannes]

I wonder if less skill progression would make 7) less blatant - give the player much more skill points on chargen and less later. You'll still advance with getting better equipment, reputation, etc.

I would like to eventually see an analysis of AOD from a storytelling perspective (inb4 storyfag)

We've been focusing purely on the gameplay, which is and all, but story shouldn't be neglected entirely

After all, people may be nitpicking the gameplay excessively precisely because the world doesn't engage them and "smooth over the edges"

I didn't play the demo that much (hope to play an improved final product instead), but the world kinda felt like it's trying too hard to be down to earth and edgy. Everybody's an asshole, and not distinct enough assholes from each other either - when repeated enough it gets samey and stale.

 

[l3loodAngel]

When the games will be inspired by AoD it will the end! The end I tell you!!!

The problem with 1.AoD is the cold, design-doc feel that Serious_Business described. Let's take a well-loved game around here as an example: Bloodlines.

A game that is popamole in nature... Well that explains a lot actually. I think that mondblut said that people here want same popamoles, but with Avelone at helm.
If you don't like AoD it's ok. Nobody is making you like the game. I have a problem when people say that the game is broken or that the combat is broken. There is a difference between saying: I don't like the new R8. Or saying that R8 is poorly engineered car. First is an opinion, the second is the statement that should be proven.
1. @5:49. Is this what you call warm? I really want to know.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maybe you missed my question. I was curious whether there were plans to update the beta or release another version. Been thinking about getting back into it but want to know whether you guys are still tweaking things in it or not.

Also, I know you answered my questions like 5 pages ago and I pretty much agree with everything you said, but thread was moving so fast and convo took a dumb turn afterward so I didn't want to bring it up again.

Sorry. Yes, there will be another release, with alchemy (to test the balance since it affects combat), faster loading time, and various tweaks.

 

[l3loodAngel]

And this hiver idiot will troll anyone who says it's less that 9/10, even though most RPGs with million dollar budgets turn out less than 8/10.

So now money spent is the benchmark and not efficiency per $. Correct me if I am wrong but Planescape, Arcanum, BG and Bloodlines all had lower budget's than DA2. I even think their budget put together was lower than that of DA2. So this argument does not belong to an idiot...