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What is the grimdark-est grimdark rpg?

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,370
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
My vote is Serpent In the Staglands. Pretty dark setting for sure, and hard as nails.

3fb03397e8b9a7cd8ad76a8481e9c92a30f3ac22616757f59dc6ad545b0f5513_product_card_v2_mobile_slider_639.jpg

14854.png
Pretty nice.
This one is definitely on my To Play list.
How is the combat like?
RTwP. The idea is that increased levels gives you more dice to throw at a problem rather than straight boni. Anyone can use spells and there are no two handed weapons.
 

REhorror

Educated
Joined
Dec 22, 2023
Messages
684
Grimdark is a retarded term used by zoomers.

Just say gothic horror.

[Codex Lore: CRITICAL FAILURE] Grimdark has been used on the 'dex before zoomers were even born.
Grimdark is a retarded term used by zoomers.

Just say gothic horror.
Grimdark is unironically a boomer theme.

War40K is so popular that everyone knows of it now.

What is the difference between grimdark and gothic horror?
Grimdark has a lot more blood and gore I guess.

Gothic horror can be a little more subdued, a little more implied.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18,726
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Grimdark is a retarded term used by zoomers.

Just say gothic horror.

[Codex Lore: CRITICAL FAILURE] Grimdark has been used on the 'dex before zoomers were even born.
Grimdark is a retarded term used by zoomers.

Just say gothic horror.
Grimdark is unironically a boomer theme.

War40K is so popular that everyone knows of it now.

What is the difference between grimdark and gothic horror?

Strictly speaking, they're the same, seeing as it comes from the grim darkness of the far future. But people often use the word grimdark to mean any general dystopia setting.

Oxford dictionary even has an entry:

a genre of fiction, especially fantasy fiction, characterized by disturbing, violent, or bleak subject matter and a dystopian setting.
"I was super into grimdark when I was in college"
 

VonMiskov

Educated
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
129
No gothic horror =/= is not grim dark. Gothic horror is a scary story that is characterized by being mysterious, gloomy and or taking in haunted places like old houses, monasteries, castles.
From wiki:
'Gothic fiction is characterized by an environment of fear, the threat of supernatural events, and the intrusion of the past upon the present. The setting typically includes physical reminders of the past, especially through ruined buildings which stand as proof of a previously thriving world which is decaying in the present. Especially in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, characteristic settings include castles, religious buildings like monasteries and convents, and crypts. The atmosphere is typically claustrophobic, and common plot elements include vengeful persecution, imprisonment, and murder.'

So no, they are not the same. Gothic horror are your horror stories from 19th century.

Grimdark as tried to explained by various authors (from wiki):

'Several attempts to define the neologism[3] "grimdark" have been made:


  • Adam Roberts described it as fiction "where nobody is honourable and Might is Right", and as "the standard way of referring to fantasies that turn their backs on the more uplifting, Pre-Raphaelite visions of idealized medievaliana, and instead stress how nasty, brutish, short and, er, dark life back then 'really' was". But he noted that grimdark has little to do with re-imagining an actual historic reality and more with conveying the sense that our own world is a "cynical, disillusioned, ultraviolent place".[1]
  • Genevieve Valentine called grimdark a "shorthand for a subgenre of fantasy fiction that claims to trade on the psychology of those sword-toting heroes, and the dark realism behind all those kingdom politics".[4]
  • In the view of Jared Shurin, grimdark fantasy has three key components: a grim and dark tone, a sense of realism (for example, monarchs are useless and heroes are flawed), and the agency of the protagonists: whereas in high fantasy everything is predestined and the tension revolves around how the heroes defeat the Dark Lord, grimdark is "fantasy protestantism": characters have to choose between good and evil, and are "just as lost as we are".[5]
  • Liz Bourke considered grimdark's defining characteristic to be "a retreat into the valorisation of darkness for darkness's sake, into a kind of nihilism that portrays right action ... as either impossible or futile". This, according to her, has the effect of absolving the protagonists as well as the reader from moral responsibility.[6]
  • Helen Young equates grimdark to gritty fantasy, as exemplified by George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.[7]

Whether grimdark is a genre in its own right or an unhelpful label has also been discussed. Valentine noted that while some writers have embraced the term, others see it as "a dismissive term for fantasy that's dismantling tropes, a stamp unfairly applied.'
 
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Sibelius

Novice
Joined
Oct 5, 2023
Messages
69
The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante probably qualifies as an extreme grimdark setting, based on some of the definitions provided by VonMiskov. More a CYOA than an RPG, although it is marketed on Steam as an RPG. Played through once last year and would definitely recommend. There are three different life paths you can take which completely change the narrative, so good replayability as well.
 

goregasm

Scholar
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
150
My vote is Serpent In the Staglands. Pretty dark setting for sure, and hard as nails.

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Pretty nice.
This one is definitely on my To Play list.
How is the combat like?
Chiming in on this one. Combat is serviceable, rtwp as said before, give your character some healing ability to avoid early game frustration.

It's a 6/10 game for me, but a solid 6/10, setting, world design, lore, character creation are all pretty good imo.

In my view it suffered from the overall graphical decision to go with heavily pixelated...everything, again just my opinion, but it really didnt sit well with me personally, not even the portraits are clear, some quests felt a bit rushed, or outright unfinished, it also had a fair bit of generic fluff tossed in.

The devs created a setting that interested me, but it sort of had a feeling of a hallow facade in many areas.

Still, I would say it's worth a go, especially on sale, you would know within 15-20 minutes if you would want to continue.
 

user

Savant
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
839
No one mentioning Bleak Faith? Jank Souls like but it's one of the most grim dark things I've ever played. Absolutely drips with oppressive mood, everything is fucked and grim and you feel like a skeleton barely able to stand while you're in a city so infinitely big you can't even see the bottom from the middle. Takes inspiration from Blam! If you want to see the sort of scale and it's all grim dark.

Would recommend on a sale. They keep patching it but it was janky as fuck when I played it a year or so ago.
Yeah, and they are fans and influenced by the great Hayashida, but the uncultured gnognards here are clueless.
 

9ted6

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
563
No gothic horror =/= is not grim dark.
I think the main difference of grimdark to other dark genres is inherent hopelessness. In grimdark everything is terrible and nothing will ever end well for anyone involved and there's never a chance at all of anything improving even a little.

In comparison extreme bleakness isn't inherent in gothic horror or other dark fantasy, it can be there but it's not a defining trait like it is with grimdark.

Grimdark games are typically the ones that slap you in the ending with a summary of how nothing you just did mattered and the kingdom or world you're in is doomed anyway, see Dark Souls 3 and both Darkest Dungeons. Dark Souls 1 and Arx Fatalis are gothic horror.
 
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ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,067
  • Fear & Hunger
  • Dark Souls (all Fromsoft games, really)
  • Darkest Dungeon (?) Although I never really got into the lore
  • Anything in Warhammer 40k naturally qualifies. Warhammer Fantasy is a maybe.
  • King Arthur: Knight's Tale

Etc, I'm probably missing lots. For a top spot, you can't beat something like Rogue Trader because 40k is ludicrously grimdark, it just one-ups everything.
It is hard to beat a game that lets you casually vent thousands of people into space because a few of them might be Chaos infected :D
 

std::namespace

Guest
dungeons and dragons!

games based on it are basically the equivalent of north korean propaganda of life in fearun
just imagine the absolute depravity and horrific of abuse of absolute power that is happening all over!
no police force, no judicial system, races, daemons!
good lord... this is like stone age level might is right
pedophile rape and snuff farms are cookie cutter!
you'd go INSANE if you live there
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2024
Messages
182
Drakengard. Enjoy the singing pedophile and the flying babies. For something not listed, there's Black Souls, which has fairy tale characters, lolis, a bleak world, the ability to murder any NPC, and rape.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
8,913
Location
Southeastern Yurop
I suppose Interplay Fallout can be added as well.
However, it's more "nobledark", if you wanna get pedantic about all these terms.
World is a blasted hellscape, full of mutants and other mutated creatures, creepy and radiated locations like The Glow, the sickening true purpose behind the Vaults being a massive Behavioral Project, and so on, but people are trying to rebuild from the ashes and it is full of heroes, but also villains. You can make a difference through your noble and selfless actions (not so much in a purist Grimdark setting, where you probably only merely delay the inevitable).
 
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GaelicVigil

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
281
My vote is Serpent In the Staglands. Pretty dark setting for sure, and hard as nails.

3fb03397e8b9a7cd8ad76a8481e9c92a30f3ac22616757f59dc6ad545b0f5513_product_card_v2_mobile_slider_639.jpg

14854.png
Pretty nice.
This one is definitely on my To Play list.
How is the combat like?

Combat is pretty good. Spells are the best part IMO. Very weird and thematic and graphically cool. There are no standard D&D spell tropes here at all.

The setting is the best part of the game. Dark and creepy, and entirely unique. The game doesn't hold your hand either. You need to make your own notes to find and solve quests.

The game-play is a little clunky. The UI feels a bit off. Things don't seem to be in the place you'd expect them. So, yeah, presentation is a bit of a mess.

Overall, though, it's a decent to good game. Worth a play IMO.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention that the race/class system is really good. Lots of freedom to build characters how you want. You're not locked into anything to start with.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
Pillars of Eternity.
This tbh. It's extremely dark. People say Tyranny is evil, but I honestly believe Aeora as portrayed in PoE 1 to be the darkest setting I have ever seen in an RPG (not agreeing on what an RPG *is* notwithstanding). Fuck knows what happened to the tone in PoE 2 and now Avowed though.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,732
Grimdark games are typically the ones that slap you in the ending with a summary of how nothing you just did mattered and the kingdom or world you're in is doomed anyway
pillows of eternity!
 

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