Gothic What is the most overrated cRPG on the codex?

[mediocrepoet]

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Diablo series was excluded from the Codex Best RPGs of 2019 list, meanwhile action games like Deus Ex and Dark Souls were included.

Objectively speaking, Diablo is a lot like a traditional RPG, aside from the (imho unpleasant) real time combat. It has a lot in common with old roguelikes.

Yet the Codex ignores the Hack and Slash genre and seems to consider it "not RPG".

On the other hand, the Codex will count any console action game as an RPG if it has certain characteristics like story and atmosphere.

I blame storyfags.

Seriously. Diablo is far more of an RPG than something like Dark Souls. The fact that you can attack and miss with your stats impacting how likely you are to hit or miss should be evidence enough of that.

 

[Gastrick]

Dark Souls at least has:

• Character creation
• Point buy stats on levellup
• Weapon and armor crafting from materials
• 7 main stats and over a dozen side stats
• Varied items
• Varied weapon and armor types that act differently from eachother
• 3 magic types and a shit load of spells

which is much more than the Zelda spinoff Gothic.

 

[Sobchak]

BG2 has better quests and atmosphere

Yeah... Hanging out with liches at their natural habitat, the inn, was a great atmospheric touch. I cherish those moments.

 

[Sobchak]

TTRPGs were born when people began giving stories to figurines in miniature wargaming. CnC is built upon that mechanical foundation, it's not the foundation itself.

Sure but still you're implying that Disco is not even close to those elements, which is not true. I can accept that you don't like it but to push it into a different category while it does carry traditional RPG elements it's unfair. In other words, you don't have to treat it like Monkey Island with attribute checks. There are different angles to look at it as well. It is different (and fresh if you want my opinion) and that's it. I don't see the need to push it away, at all.

 

[Sobchak]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

The truth of the matter is that Diablo 1 is the true classic like the first heavy metal LP from a great band but Diablo 2 is the breakthrough record. I assume you're from a poor balkan country and you like Iron Maiden or Metallica, so think of it as: Diablo 1 is "Kill 'Em All" and Diablo 2 is "Master of Puppets".

 

[pomenitul]

Joke's on you, I like Ride the Lightning best. And while I am indeed a metal enthusiast, I don't rate either Iron Maiden or Metallica all that highly. If anything, I'd say Diablo 1 is to Emperor's In the Nightside Eclipse (lo-fi, single-minded, self-accomplished and bursting with naïvely nervous energy from start to finish) as Diablo 2 is to Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk (better recorded, self-aware and peppered with brilliantly innovative ideas but a bit too variegated for comfort tone-wise).

 

[Ash]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

Not on the Codex.

They both get too much credit and they barely qualify as RPG, in fact, they only barely qualify in the ARPG subgenre.

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Jesus you're sheltered. Diablo spawned ARPGs? Lol way off.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I'm not sure how Fallout 2 can be overrated here given all I fucking hear here is people bitching about it. People bitch about Fallout 2 here like Fallout 2 is Fallout 3. Shit, just being able to move your party members out of the doorway of the room they've trapped you in, and being able to have them hold your stuff without needing to buy it back from them makes Fallout 2 a more enjoyable game to play than the first.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Have you ever heard of Zelda?
It was released in 1986, more than a decade before Diablo, which is a hack and slash and for a reason, because that's all you do, if you ask me, diablo is more of a clicker precursor than anything else.

 

[Butter]

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Have you ever heard of Zelda?
It was released in 1986, more than a decade before Diablo, which is a hack and slash and for a reason, because that's all you do, if you ask me, diablo is more of a clicker precursor than anything else.

Zelda doesn't feature any sort of character creation or customization. It's essentially an updated Adventure.

 

[Darth Canoli]

And?
ARPG are not RPG, they're just action games with some RPG elements.

That's the origin of the genre, some ARPG are full fledge RPG but few of them really qualify.

 

[RNGsus]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

Not on the Codex.

They both get too much credit and they barely qualify as RPG, in fact, they only barely qualify in the ARPG subgenre.

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

you are sheltered for not playing the garbage I had to play as a kid

No. ARPGs are only worth playing after Diablo. You are sheltered for thinking anyone gives a fuck about beforehand.

 

[Disciple]

The thing is that "ARPG" is not some monolithic RPG tradition like roguelikes or dungeon crawlers are for the most part. You can identify several distinct genealogies of video games which have been labelled "ARPG" at some point:

-Console ARPGs: both the top-down perspective ones (Ys, Crystalis, etc) and the side-scrolling ones (Zelda II, Faxanadu...).

-Diablo-likes: Nox, Titan Quest, Sacred, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn... Usually third person view PC games revolving around Diablo II's loot, going through the game again in each difficulty available, and the multiplayer experience.

-Ultima Underworld-likes: namely Deus Ex, SS2, the Elder Scroll Games to some extent, From Software games (more so their early stuff than their Soulsborne offerings) and Piranha Bytes games. This is arguably the most heterogeneous grouping of the three, and it has spawned its own subgenres too; e. g., "Souls-likes", the controversial "immersive sim". Bethesda games have been pretty much their own thing for a good while as well.

 

[Ryan muller]

Arcanum definitively

 

[JarlFrank]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

Not on the Codex.

They both get too much credit and they barely qualify as RPG, in fact, they only barely qualify in the ARPG subgenre.

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Jesus you're sheltered. Diablo spawned ARPGs? Lol way off.

"ARPG" used to be a term that described Diablo clones. Around the early to mid 00s, when people said ARPG they meant Diablo clone.

So yes, Diablo spawned ARPGs, depending on how you define that term.

 

[gaussgunner]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

Not on the Codex.

They both get too much credit and they barely qualify as RPG, in fact, they only barely qualify in the ARPG subgenre.

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Jesus you're sheltered. Diablo spawned ARPGs? Lol way off.

"ARPG" used to be a term that described Diablo clones. Around the early to mid 00s, when people said ARPG they meant Diablo clone.

So yes, Diablo spawned ARPGs, depending on how you define that term.

Yeah... apparently the label ARPG was actually used for games like Zelda "because you're playing a role" but they were relabeled as action-adventure after Diablo and the Internet came out and everyone got all autistic about it. Not that I'm complaining. D&D firmly established "role-playing" as character progression and specialization. ARPG is the same thing without the party and turnbased elements, not a Tolkienesque console/arcade hack'n'slasher.

 

[Scruffy]

Arcanum definitively

someone's going for the dumbfuck tag right after registering!

 

[dacencora]

Similarly, Diablo 2 gets too much cred while Diablo 1 gets too little.

Not on the Codex.

They both get too much credit and they barely qualify as RPG, in fact, they only barely qualify in the ARPG subgenre.

Diablo only barely qualifies in the ARPG subgenre? As in the subgenre it spawned? LMAO

Jesus you're sheltered. Diablo spawned ARPGs? Lol way off.

"ARPG" used to be a term that described Diablo clones. Around the early to mid 00s, when people said ARPG they meant Diablo clone.

So yes, Diablo spawned ARPGs, depending on how you define that term.

ARPG, especially styled this way, I have only ever seen applied to Diablo-style games. Zelda would never qualify as an RPG to me. One of my favorite series of games, but it lacks critical role playing elements to be called an RPG.

Yes Ys and Mana came before Diablo, but those are more similar to Zelda than they are to Wizardry, so it’s a blurry line. So perhaps saying Diablo “spawned” ARPGs is the wrong term, and maybe “defined” is the better term.

 

[El Presidente]

Diablo is responsible for spawning the worst subgenre I can think of, Diablo-clones. For the last many years I've seen retards very unfairly blaming Myst for the death of the adventure genre for all the Mystlings and FMVs it spawned (and for "creating the demand that every point and click shall have a huge budget" or some retarded explanation out of their asses). Well I can say for sure Diablo was responsible for spawning a FAR worse steaming mountain of shit. Diablo-likes are the nasty tumor attached to the RPG genre, what a pathetic disgraceful subgenre. Not even ONE single game in it has good mechanics, good itemization, good systems, good encounter design, a good story, nothing, it provides nothing other than braindead clicky clicky wipey screen. Class choice makes no difference, they're all just different flashy assets to wipe the screen. Equipment in these games are an absolute meaningless joke, come late game you kick a little pebble on the ground and from under it comes
- Celestialward Tiger Shield of the Vampiric Draconics
- Incorruptible Preserver Arcane Ring of Alacrity
- Mighty Stormbrand Longsword of the Bear's Wrath
- Prismatic Basilisk Leaf Horn of the Siren's Song
- 3 Mega Elixirs and 2 Mega Mana Potions

Every encounter is the same joke, every dungeon is exactly the same with a different coat of paint, there are only 3 types of bosses in these games and they all feel just the same:
- huge monster fixed on the ground, like a huge sandworm that stays in a corner or some demon-wall thing attached to a surface
- mobile boss that hits hard and spawns dozens of minions
- mobile boss that shoots a million shit and the fight is kinda like a bullet hell and he teleports around
And the endgame gameplay consists of one-shotting all three of them anyways. Even before endgame these bosses feel completely meaningless.

All of the games are awfully balanced and they add different difficulties that consist of multiplying the monsters' HP by 1.25/1.5/2/3/etc, and their damage as well.

Every single quest is bad including the main quest.

Minibosses are just a normal monster but with 1000x the HP.

I could go on and on for multiple pages of this thread. These shit games are the supreme popamole experience and have more in common with Cookie Clicker than with RPGs.

 

[octavius]

I liked Nox. So there.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"ARPG" is a terrible term, the correct term is diablo-clone.
Not a single one differentiates itself enough from Diablo to be worthy of being called its own subgenre. Additionally, "ARPG" is a terrible term because it explicitly excludes the massive majority of action RPGs.
I don't think there's a single subgenre that's worse than diablo-clones in any genre, tbh. If you've played diablo 2, you've played the entire subgenre.
The complete lack of growth is astounding, it has just spiraled unto itself focusing entirely on a handful of mechanics(namely, grinding and collecting loot.) It's essentially the video game genre equivalent of island mentality.

Diablo-clones are the inbred pugs of cRPGs.

 

[Zeriel]

"ARPG" is a terrible term, the correct term is diablo-clone.
Not a single one differentiates itself enough from Diablo to be worthy of being called its own subgenre. Additionally, "ARPG" is a terrible term because it explicitly excludes the massive majority of action RPGs.
I don't think there's a single subgenre that's worse than diablo-clones in any genre, tbh. If you've played diablo 2, you've played the entire subgenre.
The complete lack of growth is astounding, it has just spiraled unto itself focusing entirely on a handful of mechanics(namely, grinding and collecting loot.) It's essentially the video game genre equivalent of island mentality.

Diablo-clones are the inbred pugs of cRPGs.

Didn't ARPG use to be used for games like Gothic too, though? I feel like what might have happened there is action RPGs became more common and dominant than non action RPGs, so they just started to call Skyrim/Gothic like games RPGs, and then ARPG was used exclusively for Diablo clones.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"ARPG" is a terrible term, the correct term is diablo-clone.
Not a single one differentiates itself enough from Diablo to be worthy of being called its own subgenre. Additionally, "ARPG" is a terrible term because it explicitly excludes the massive majority of action RPGs.
I don't think there's a single subgenre that's worse than diablo-clones in any genre, tbh. If you've played diablo 2, you've played the entire subgenre.
The complete lack of growth is astounding, it has just spiraled unto itself focusing entirely on a handful of mechanics(namely, grinding and collecting loot.) It's essentially the video game genre equivalent of island mentality.

Diablo-clones are the inbred pugs of cRPGs.

Didn't ARPG use to be used for games like Gothic too, though? I feel like what might have happened there is action RPGs became more common and dominant than non action RPGs, so they just started to call Skyrim/Gothic like games RPGs, and then ARPG was used exclusively for Diablo clones.

It was applied to a lot of things prior to Diablo's popularity, namely, any RPG that had action-oriented combat in order to differentiate it from more traditional cRPGs.

 

[dacencora]

What is the similarity between System Shock, Ultima Underworld, Deux Ex

You mean besides action-combat, FPP, and atmospheric level design?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

action-combat, FPP,

It and about half of all games ever released.

and atmospheric level design?

Subjective interpretation.

"Immersive sim" is a non-genre, stop trying to make it happen.