Divinity What makes a "Baldur's Gate" to you?

[rusty_shackleford]

the arbitrary inventory slot constraints that exist solely to make the game worse

 

[NJClaw]

I found something that gives a very VERY basic rundown of the 5e archetypes. Kensei is a monk now? That was one of my favorite classes in BG2 but I have a feeling I wouldn't like the 5e version. Here's the list I'm looking at. It's kind of shit in that it doesn't really tell you anything about modifiers or abilities: https://www.tribality.com/2019/01/1...classes-ideal-to-show-to-your-players-part-2/

edit: Sun Soul sounds like the weeb dbz fan's ultimate class. That does sound kind of fun. Who doesn't like shooting kamehamehas?

edit2: No bow focused archetype for Rangers? Gay.

You can read something here, but the best thing would be to commit an irreprehensible crime and download the Player's Handbook pdf.

 

[janior]

A gate with a Baldur

 

[AwesomeButton]

This question is framed incorrectly. It should be:

What are the features with the addition of which a game cannot be a part of the "Baldur's Gate" line of games?

The answer is "aesthetics imported straight from an unrelated line of Divinity: Original Sin games".

Baldur's Gate III will in all likelihood be a very enjoyable game. It will in all likelihood feature numerous homages and references to the first two games. However, it will be regarded historically as the natural continuation of not Baldur's Gate, but the Divinity Original Sin series.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/

 

[Alpan]

I actually thought about that distinction as I was posting. (I'm a big fan of negative liberty.)

 

[NJClaw]

For me it's more than D&D, isometric and RTwP. You are in a horrible dungeon where your enemy tortures his followers , the atmosphere is real, this is shit, but then Minsc starts talking about kicking evil in the butt and you feel happy. Finding a Lich in a tabern, a dragon that kills your party at the beginning of the game just because you decided to explore. The fucking music. The writing (which sometimes can be really silly, but not when it matters, for example the dreams). The quests ...gods! not knowing where will they take you. The party whining for your decisions, fighting each other, you don't brainwash them like Shepard in Mass effect, they won't agree to do things that are against their wishes, they leave you, and thus they feel real and you care about them.

A world that is there not for you, you are just in the world like everyone else. It's probable that you will miss tons of stuff and the game won't force you to find them. And that is what it makes it feel real. That excitement when you get your party and think "ok where do we go?" knowing that you are able to go wherever the hell you want.

Ah... bah, I could go on for ages, but yes, it's the sum of tiny infinite elements that end up builiding a compelling not forced "save the world" story with unforgettable characters and a world you WANT to explore.

Sometimes, hidden among the jungle of shitpost, you can find truly amazing posts. These are some of the aspects and feelings of Baldur's Gate that I will cherish forever.

 

[DraQ]

Along with some of the suggestions already made, (2-D isometric, party based, adapted D&D ruleset etc.) another vote for aesthetic here.

When I look at BG3 I instantly assume I'm playing in Rivellon. They made Divinity TDKS look as such, DOS 1 look as such, DOS 2 look as such. Why the fuck would they now expect anyone who's not been locked up getting bummed in David Gaider's "fun closet" for 20 odd years to suddenly buy into the aesthetics for BG3 being set in BG's world?

I'm a big Dragon Age:Origins fan and see it as a spiritual successor to BG, but it set off on it's own path so I could buy into some of the more dramatic modernizations. Even if they were shit I wasn't trying to find the BG in there.

With BG3 however I'm drawn out the vibe nearly every other second, wondering who has what connection to stuff like the Dragon Knights etc exist.

It's bollocks.

It's like when I played PS:T and expected to see Minsc at any moment.
Oh, wait, I didn't.

 

[Shadenuat]

It has something to do with what Sawyer explained about capturing AD&D art feeling - about mundane people put into fantasy and facing mythical challenges. BG1 captures that, both in looks and the fact that in the end you fight a powerful fighter, wizard, some dude who betrayed everyone, and ogre who killed the wife of one of your potential companions. The isometry actually works well for this because you can see how insignificant your party is compared to the world around them. I think BG1 did it better than BG2, even though BG2 is better in many ways. IWD1 also did this well.

 

[luj1]

When I hear 'Baldurs Gate' I think of isometric, brown, archetypal DnD party adventure.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It has something to do with what Sawyer explained about capturing AD&D art feeling - about mundane people put into fantasy and facing mythical challenges. BG1 captures that, both in looks and the fact that in the end you fight a powerful fighter, wizard, some dude who betrayed everyone, and ogre who killed the wife of one of your potential companions. The isometry actually works well for this because you can see how insignificant your party is compared to the world around them. I think BG1 did it better than BG2, even though BG2 is better in many ways. IWD1 also did this well.

I think what you say about the isometric perspective is more a side effect, and the intended effect was to emulate the figurines of PnP. Anyway, how seriously any player takes the campagin he is playing is a big question, and it's impossible to measure across players. Trying to recaptue even one single person's perception of a game they played 20 years ago is a lost cause, even if your 300-men team worked solely to capture that person's perception.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I don't see option for "Bioware circa 2000" on poll.
Series was finished with Throne of Baal and no amount of copying of features or giving "sequels" name of series or character cameos will change that.

 

[AwesomeButton]

When I hear 'Baldurs Gate' I think of isometric, brown, archetypal DnD party adventure.

"Classic western fantasy" more or less.

I don't see option for "Bioware circa 2000" on poll.
Series was finished with Throne of Baal and no amount of copying of features or giving "sequels" name of series or character cameos will change that.

See the post above yours.

 

[GhostCow]

Isometric is very important in a party based game simply because it's the best way to see what's going on and manage multiple characters. When I played Dragon Age with it's third person view it made me want to be lazy and just play my main character while leaving my companions up to the AI.

 

[Shadenuat]

What is classic fantasy and why it affects us in way it does is eternal debate, which would lead to Tolkien and what is Tolkien and so on.

But if you want to see what was lost in transition seek no further than Larian's own franchise, Divinity. Just compare the look and feel of Divinity 1 to newest ones and you will see.

In a world where you start from nautiloid burned by 3 dragons as vampire or exploding wizard there is no place for peasants and soldiers, no place for childhood rogue friends with 1 gp daggers, or +2 swords or defeating kobolds giving any satisfaction. And there is no place for you.

 

[DraQ]

It has something to do with what Sawyer explained about capturing AD&D art feeling

That's actually what they seemed to be going for with DOS2 art style. When I saw chargen screen I immediately thought of this one DnD cover artist (I don't remember the name) that really liked his shiny cabochons.

So yeah, good fit and all.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

- the writing (mainly just put this here to point out that Larian's writing is terrible and doesn't fit BG)

I feel like I played different versions of BG1/BG2 than the rest of you guys.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Nice graphics, generic setting, juvenile writing, retarded companions, competent yet soulless soundtrack, non-existent exploration, gameplay completely centered around its mediocre RTS combat, tons of shiny objects to find.

 

[Valky]

The shit combat is one of the hallmarks of Baldur's Gate. Replacing it with a good combat system removes a core defining trait of what made Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate. You don't think good combat when you think of Baldur's Gate, it is synonymous with shit combat. Changing this takes away the ability to be called a faithful sequel. It should be about the story, not the gameplay.

Spoiler

Thank god Swen makes games that prioritize gameplay.

 

[GhostCow]

I feel like I played different versions of BG1/BG2 than the rest of you guys.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed every aspect of the writing was top tier. Jan and Minsc are both horrible

 

[Verylittlefishes]

For me it's more than D&D, isometric and RTwP. You are in a horrible dungeon where your enemy tortures his followers , the atmosphere is real, this is shit, but then Minsc starts talking about kicking evil in the butt and you feel happy. Finding a Lich in a tabern, a dragon that kills your party at the beginning of the game just because you decided to explore. The fucking music. The writing (which sometimes can be really silly, but not when it matters, for example the dreams). The quests ...gods! not knowing where will they take you. The party whining for your decisions, fighting each other, you don't brainwash them like Shepard in Mass effect, they won't agree to do things that are against their wishes, they leave you, and thus they feel real and you care about them.

A world that is there not for you, you are just in the world like everyone else. It's probable that you will miss tons of stuff and the game won't force you to find them. And that is what it makes it feel real. That excitement when you get your party and think "ok where do we go?" knowing that you are able to go wherever the hell you want.

Ah... bah, I could go on for ages, but yes, it's the sum of tiny infinite elements that end up builiding a compelling not forced "save the world" story with unforgettable characters and a world you WANT to explore.

Stop it I wanna cry now. Even Sawyer didn't manage to kill this feeling completely...

 

[prodigydancer]

I voted "Party limit of 6" among other things. The party size in BG3 is the only thing that feels really wrong because big parties really change the flow of combat. 4 isn't the same as 6, multiclass or no mutliclass.

Origins are cool, but there are ways to increase the party size without compromising them. In Deadfire, some of the possible party members are sidekicks with backgrounds but little dialogue. In BG1, few of the companions were involved in the story in any way.

[Edit] As for RTwP, it was one of the things that defined the IE games but mostly because D&D with non-TB combat was an unusual combination. It's understandable why some old timers are frustrated, but few VG franchises keep the same combat system forever. Since BG3 is more of a reboot than a sequel, the change is justified.

 

[AwesomeButton]

non-existent exploration

You only played BG2?

 

[Bruma Hobo]

non-existent exploration

You only played BG2?

In fact I have only finished BG1, I abandoned BG2 after a couple of hours because it felt like the same old shit but more linear.

Dispelling fog of war from empty maps does not make compelling exploration to me.

 

[NJClaw]

I feel like I played different versions of BG1/BG2 than the rest of you guys.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed every aspect of the writing was top tier. Jan and Minsc are both horrible

Minsc has funny catchphrases and he is a perfect example of a proper PnP character. I have been playing for 17 years now and 90% of the characters that I have seen were made for shits and giggles.
He also has a redeeming scene where Jaheira asks him how he even managed to become a ranger and then she sees him, an enormous bloodthirsty brute, lovingly caring for small critters. He is not literary gold, but he managed to be the most memorable thing in the entire game.

 

[AwesomeButton]

non-existent exploration

You only played BG2?

In fact I have only finished BG1, I abandoned BG2 after a couple of hours because it felt like the same old shit but more linear.

Dispelling fog of war from empty maps does not make compelling exploration to me.

I thought exploration was pretty interesting once you start going into directions and maps where no one asked you to go in the first place, and well, explore on your own.

The fact that trash encounters keep respawning and putting a pressure on your party's resources would make you consider how many times you would go through area and think economically.